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How to use Avon Deverberate?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
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jnorman's Avatar
How to use Avon Deverberate?

I bought the Acon Deverberate plugin to assist in minimizing the “small room” sound I have to deal with on so many recordings made in pianist’s living rooms, etc. I have tried each of the default presets, and also tried the early reflection “learn” setting. Each attempt seems to result in unsatisfactory results, eg dull, hollow, artifacty, etc.

I tried to read the manual for user guide info, but alas, not much assistance there.

Can someone please give me some advice on using Deverberate, specifically for rooms in the size range of 15x20x8ft. Best starting point? Which settings to adjust to fine tune? Thanks.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
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Good luck to you--I've never gotten those plugs to sound believable on things like solo piano, only on some sorts of speech, usually with some sacrifice of fidelity. With music files, every time I'd think I'd made an improvement I'd go back to the original and find I was wrong about that...that I liked the original better...
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Just used it on a series of lectures recorded in the 1960s in a very reverberant room/lecture hall. It worked wonders. I have tried it on music with less stellar results but sometimes using just a lower setting works very well. Best of luck! (It does take a bit of fiddling to get it sounding right.)
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Gear Nut
 

I agreed with the above. I got it as an alternative to the izotope offering and am not thrilled. It can work on narration/voice pretty well sometimes.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
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TVPostSound's Avatar
They are only effective on speech.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
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jnorman's Avatar
Thanks everyone. I messed around with it some more today, and found that if I set it to “reduce room reverb” preset and then turn down the source reverb down from -15% (default) to -24%, it is somewhat effective without much artifact-type issues.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
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Plush's Avatar
Nothing removes the "small room imprint." A disaster.

Invariably it starts as the piano player tells you, "my living room has a fantastic acoustic."

Earl Wild used to record in his living room with creaking and banging radiators as a background sound.

The records were released.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
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emrr's Avatar
I've only had very limited success with RX7 reducing anything in a very small range, and only when it's a multitrack recording where I can shave a hair off of every single track before they are combined.....and not in anything like classical music or solo acoustic instruments.
Old 1 week ago
  #9
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saagedal's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
Thanks everyone. I messed around with it some more today, and found that if I set it to “reduce room reverb” preset and then turn down the source reverb down from -15% (default) to -24%, it is somewhat effective without much artifact-type issues.
I'm glad to hear that you got better results. The "Reduce room reverb" is indeed a good starting point. The source reverb time (corresponding to the setting you would expect from a reverb plug-in) and the source reverb level are the two most important settings. I usually start with the source reverb level all the way down at -48 dB and increase it until the reverb reduction is good without affecting the wanted signal too much.

Here are a couple of other things to keep in mind when using DeVerberate:
  • Dynamic processing prevents DeVerberate from estimating the correct frequency dependent reverb levels.
  • Setting the correct source reverb time is crucial for a good suppression without artifacts.
  • The new DeVerberate 2 features a new Early Reflections Filter that works in conjunction with the late reverb suppression of version 1. The latter kicks in after 20 to 30 ms after the direct sound. Unfortunately, piano gives the early reflections estimator a hard time due to the periodic nature of the signal. If you have some parts of the recording with more percussive or noise-like sounds, that will make estimation much better. It works very well with dialogue.

Best,
Stian
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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jnorman's Avatar
Stian - thanks for weighing in. I hoped someone from Acon would comment. I think I will post some samples later today
Old 1 week ago
  #11
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jnorman's Avatar
here are some samples - a simple recording of mozart mov2, flute/piano, with schoeps cmc64s in ORTF:
1. the original recording with no fx
2. the original recording with Acon applied
3. a mix with no acon and with reverb Pro-R) added
4. a mix with Acon applied and with verb added
Attached Files

mozart 2 original recording no fx.wav (5.42 MB, 319 views)

mozart 2 original recording with acon applied.wav (5.42 MB, 308 views)

mozart 2 with no acon and added verb.wav (5.42 MB, 336 views)

mozart 2 with acon and added verb.wav (5.42 MB, 323 views)

Old 1 week ago
  #12
It's clearly doing its job, but I can't shake the sense of it being recorded in a small room - possibly too much dry signal on the tracks with added reverb. Such a tricky thing to get right though.

Also, the (what I suspect is a) dog licking its lips is a nice touch.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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saagedal's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
here are some samples - a simple recording of mozart mov2, flute/piano, with schoeps cmc64s in ORTF:
1. the original recording with no fx
2. the original recording with Acon applied
3. a mix with no acon and with reverb Pro-R) added
4. a mix with Acon applied and with verb added
Thanks for these samples! The early reflections are rather subtle and the early reflections filter does more harm than good in this case. The source reverb time is shorter than in the "Reduce room preset" so I decreased that to 45 ms in my attempt and I adjusted the emphasis curve a bit. I tried to upload the preset file, but it was reject. I can send it to you if you're interested. Another suggestion would be to increase the early reflections in the reverb to mask room a bit. I attached my attempt with DeVerberate followed by Verberate.

Best,
Stian
Attached Files

mozart 2 with deverberate and verberate.wav (5.42 MB, 296 views)

Old 1 week ago
  #14
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saagedal's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenorfran View Post
It's clearly doing its job, but I can't shake the sense of it being recorded in a small room - possibly too much dry signal on the tracks with added reverb. Such a tricky thing to get right though.

Also, the (what I suspect is a) dog licking its lips is a nice touch.
Attached a version without dog licking for those who prefer that...

Best,
Stian
Attached Files

mozart 2 with deverberate and verberate and no dog licking.wav (5.42 MB, 285 views)

Old 1 week ago
  #15
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by saagedal View Post
I attached my attempt with DeVerberate followed by Verberate.
It sounds good. Please, could you post the same sample with DeVerberate only ?
Old 1 week ago
  #16
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saagedal's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
It sounds good. Please, could you post the same sample with DeVerberate only ?
Thanks, sure! Attached below...

Best,
Stian
Attached Files

mozart 2 with deverberate.wav (5.42 MB, 285 views)

Old 1 week ago
  #17
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Effective indeed !
Old 1 week ago
  #18
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jnorman's Avatar
Many thanks to Stian from Acon taking the time to personally address my issues here, and also for the offline customer support he provided.
Old 1 week ago
  #19
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saagedal's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
Many thanks to Stian from Acon taking the time to personally address my issues here, and also for the offline customer support he provided.
My pleasure! Use cases from real life are always interesting.

Best,
Stian
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