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Haydn Piano Sonata ,omni mid /side.
Old 14th October 2019
  #1
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Haydn Piano Sonata ,omni mid /side.

Young gifted pianist
Yamaha Grand Piano
Large church
Close ish Decca miking (tail)
MKH 800 in omni/MKH 30 side
Witty Haydn allegro.
Attached Files

CMF19.Jeneba K Mason CD.m4a (4.77 MB, 975 views)

Old 14th October 2019
  #2
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
Close ish Decca miking (tail)
I LOVE this technique for piano! However, folks look at me like I have lost my mind when I set it up.

How far away were you mics from the tail? Seems like a pretty reverberant space which most folks like. I tend toward less reverb/more articulation myself, but I am, it seems, in the minority. My boss and I have discussions about that, and a few choir directors have explained that they think "blend" is more important than "words". I think I hear things this way from many years as a dialog recordist where "words" are really the only thing that matters.

D.
Old 14th October 2019
  #3
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On the tail Doug
Its a big Catholic Church and I was wary of passing buses intruding, but all was right for the event and I could have gone wider
I am a word man myself, 50 yrs of that!
But I do like space and its design.
Roger
Old 15th October 2019
  #4
Lovely, as usual. Bravo. I once experimented with my 800twin as a stereo mic (by itself) on piano. I was pleasantly surprised. Same pattern as your MKH30 + Omni, as it turns out.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Photo available?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
Lives for gear
Big Catholic ,Victorian Church in the centre of a busy town.
Attached Thumbnails
Haydn Piano Sonata ,omni mid /side.-img_1378.jpg  
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
Big Catholic ,Victorian Church in the centre of a busy town.
Very nice! But can't hardly see any microphones... Possible to provide a view of the mic setup?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
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Yannick's Avatar
 

As big a fan I am about most of your work, I must say I am not a big fan of the Decca tail method. To me the piano sounds constrained, a bit tinnish and a bit like a digital one.

As per the other threads about recording without lid: a piano is made to sound with the lid on, and towards the audience. Height will take care of the balance between direct soundboard/string sound and reflective (lid/floor) sound, brighter versus rounder. Recording the piano from the "correct" side invariably makes it sing more.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
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It is a Yamaha Yan.
They make a big penetrating sound for a smallish iron frame compared to a Steinway.
The players technique is quite percussive
All this gives a forward and detailed sound, however it did sound like that and I did not eq it (I never do)
I like the Decca Tail , it never presents a technicolor wide image and breathing ,page noise and mechanicals are reduced.
I enclose a tighter pic of the piano and array.
Roger
Later that week I recorded the Rite of Spring with this piano and a Steinway, that was a challenge!
Attached Thumbnails
Haydn Piano Sonata ,omni mid /side.-img_1377.jpg  
Old 4 weeks ago
  #10
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Yannick's Avatar
 

To my defense, I am not a Steinway D fetishist. I am quite used to Yamaha, and the CFX concert grand, which can be a lot better than a average D in quite a few regards. I have a 1969 C7 myself.

Which model was it, precisely ?

This week I recorded a Fazioli f228, mainly Philip Glass etudes. I had a close couple of Royer SF1, and a MKH800 twin (with the satin black finish )/MKH30 couple, in front of the piano, 1m50 out and very low so the main pair could not see the strings nor soundboard. Only reflections off the lid and floor.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
It is a Yamaha Yan.
They make a big penetrating sound for a smallish iron frame compared to a Steinway.
The players technique is quite percussive
All this gives a forward and detailed sound, however it did sound like that and I did not eq it (I never do)
I like the Decca Tail , it never presents a technicolor wide image and breathing ,page noise and mechanicals are reduced.
I enclose a tighter pic of the piano and array.
Roger
Later that week I recorded the Rite of Spring with this piano and a Steinway, that was a challenge!
Yes, the pianists sound was rather percussive and that put me off her performance somewhat. I think you made an honest recording of how she sounded.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
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Not sure about the Yamaha type, but it punches way above its weight
It belongs to a local theatre who don't use it much, but can't sell it becos it was bought with Lottery monies..
Hence its use by the Festival,they have 6 Steinways and a Fazioli at their disposal
They also have a resident tuner ,who is quite brilliants piano builder himself.
Today I heard a Steinway and Soprano in Wells Cathedrals very generous acoustic
It sounded quite sublime.
I love pianos, they are elusive to capture, just listening today was magical in a huge empty Nave.
Roger
Old 4 weeks ago
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
Not sure about the Yamaha type, but it punches way above its weight
It belongs to a local theatre who don't use it much, but can't sell it becos it was bought with Lottery monies..
Hence its use by the Festival,they have 6 Steinways and a Fazioli at their disposal
They also have a resident tuner ,who is quite brilliants piano builder himself.
Today I heard a Steinway and Soprano in Wells Cathedrals very generous acoustic
It sounded quite sublime.
I love pianos, they are elusive to capture, just listening today was magical in a huge empty Nave.
Roger
Yes, I too visited Wells Cathedral just over a year ago, and thought the huge space fantastic. The sound of voices and shouts of people and children and the odd dog bark (yes, dogs are allowed in) had quite an echo and unusual audio effect. It might therefore be a big job to get the right sound for recorded music, but I'm sure it's possible.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #14
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The Chapter House in Wells has an even more interesting acoustic
I have recorded in there and the Nave and undercroft
The Choir has almost an inert acoustic, amazing design for a building that had no architect and was erected 700 yrs ago
Funded by Wool and ultimate Faith.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #15
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Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
amazing design for a building that had no architect and was erected 700 yrs ago
Yes well... I did some research after a visit many years ago. What I remember about the Saint Andrews Cross Arches (perhaps the most striking feature of the building) is that they were an emergency intervention to keep the central tower from collapsing during construction (when they added the spire). Not so much a design; more an attempt to save the building. And it worked brilliantly. As I recall it was one of the masons who thought of it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
That’s what they told us on our high places tour at the cathedral this summer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
Yes well... I did some research after a visit many years ago. What I remember about the Saint Andrews Cross Arches (perhaps the most striking feature of the building) is that they were an emergency intervention to keep the central tower from collapsing during construction (when they added the spire). Not so much a design; more an attempt to save the building. And it worked brilliantly. As I recall it was one of the masons who thought of it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #17
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Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya View Post
That’s what they told us on our high places tour at the cathedral this summer.
They had a roof tour of Wells? Shoot. I missed that. I did take a roof tour of the Cathedral at Salisbury. Roof tours are amazing, and highly recommended. If you aren't really afraid of heights. Like I am. Fortunately (?) when I was at Salisbury the tower was closed for some level of restoration, so the tower tour wasn't available. IIRC it's one of the tallest church towers in the UK. I'll bet the view is spectacular. But the tower acoustics are probably iffy.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #18
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The Master Mason designed Saint Andrews Cross Arch
Heres a pic.
And the West face
It has an excellent music school.
Roger
Attached Thumbnails
Haydn Piano Sonata ,omni mid /side.-img_1759.jpg   Haydn Piano Sonata ,omni mid /side.-img_1761.jpg  
Old 4 weeks ago
  #19
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boojum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
Yes well... I did some research after a visit many years ago. What I remember about the Saint Andrews Cross Arches (perhaps the most striking feature of the building) is that they were an emergency intervention to keep the central tower from collapsing during construction (when they added the spire). Not so much a design; more an attempt to save the building. And it worked brilliantly. As I recall it was one of the masons who thought of it.
https://www.wellscathedral.org.uk/hi...cissor-arches/
Old 4 weeks ago
  #20
A few from my collection
Attached Thumbnails
Haydn Piano Sonata ,omni mid /side.-3618211e-a925-4065-bc1e-e5ee53ea5d9b.jpg   Haydn Piano Sonata ,omni mid /side.-6a03ef6d-9af0-40c8-9516-a316f99b0b33.jpg   Haydn Piano Sonata ,omni mid /side.-623c6aff-8ff7-4532-9fcc-236a1ead066b.jpg  

Last edited by king2070lplaya; 4 weeks ago at 10:14 PM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #21
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hbphotoav's Avatar
 

An aside... My (much) better half and I honeymooned in England, Wales and Scotland in August, 1977, with her family (long story... free trip, and they needed a driver)... including one recent MA/Piano Performance and Literature (my spouse), one PhD/Theology (my father-in-law, with a strong interest in hymnody, four church music lovers (MiL, SiL, BiL and Grandfather-in-Law), and me. We spent most of the two weeks scurrying about in a 8-place van, visiting castles, manor homes (the GiL's distant relatives), and cathedrals from London to Brighton to Somerset to Cardiff and Caernarfon (where my people were from) to the International Arts Festival at Edinburgh, and back...

One standout memory (of many) was arriving at Wells Cathedral, late afternoon, on a dark, misty/rainy day. We had, it seems, missed the closing by mere minutes. As we were huddled against the closed and bolted door, the organ started up. Evidently it was a final rehearsal of some sort, and gloriously played with few interruptions. We returned to the vehicle after about 30 minutes. Not quite a concert, but well worth the effort, anyway.

My wife and I did manage to get back in the late '90s for a proper visit whilst banging around the country in a rental after a festival gig in Coventry. It's a lovely space.

Cheers.

HB
Old 3 weeks ago
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
The Chapter House in Wells has an even more interesting acoustic
You're not kidding. I recorded the choir in there for a film soundtrack a couple of years ago. That is some pretty dense reverberation. I was glad I brought loooong cables so I could get my rig out into another room and hear it properly.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #23
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That was the Synod debating chamber!
If you sit with your back to the circular wall it is amazingly possible to hear all delegates, like St Pauls Whispering Gallery and Gloucesters.
Roger
Old 3 weeks ago
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
That was the Synod debating chamber!
If you sit with your back to the circular wall it is amazingly possible to hear all delegates, like St Pauls Whispering Gallery and Gloucesters.
Roger
Shouldn't be so surprising...it's the pzm principle in action, with your head/ears close to the wall as stereo microphone
Old 3 weeks ago
  #25
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brhoward's Avatar
 

For me the recording is a bit too close in. I like the detail, but the piano sound is a overly forward. How far from the piano were the mics?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #26
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At the tail
Have you read the thread ?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #27
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Peter Allison's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
The Master Mason designed Saint Andrews Cross Arch
a master Mason? , not a speculative one I guess lol
Old 2 weeks ago
  #28
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brhoward's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
At the tail
Have you read the thread ?
I did read it, but I didn't look at the photos. I see the distance in your second uploaded photo now. You said "close-ish" and I was wondering how far from the tail you were. Looks like maybe 18" or so.

I've noticed decca-tail position looks very different depending upon who sets it up. Is that your typical starting point? I wonder if in that space, much further back would the recording become too reverberant?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #29
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Further back it would have been more reverberant and possibly marred by Bus Routes
Next time I will be more adventurous perhaps, I hadn't been there before.
Also the Yam was more forward than the Ds I normally record and her style very different.
Roger
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