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Can't decide which mics make this violin sound the most appealing :) Schoeps, Samar
Old 1 week ago
  #61
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Yannick's Avatar
 

I much prefer the Josephsons. I still do not like the “special” quality the Schoeps mics add to the instrument. It sounds artificial, while I can understand why many really like this sound, I can never relax and listen to the music...
Old 1 week ago
  #62
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick View Post
I much prefer the Josephsons. I still do not like the “special” quality the Schoeps mics add to the instrument. It sounds artificial, while I can understand why many really like this sound, I can never relax and listen to the music...
There was only one Josephson used so far (MS = combination of two front capsules (8 and omni) and 8 side capsule). I somehow too prefer Josephson sound (fuller, sweeter, while Schoeps seem to sound a bit more straight and hard ?), but MS and one mic maybe too narrow ? Tomorrow I am very curious to directly compare AB Schoeps vs Josephsons ... I just hope Josephsons will not sound too much better not to bankrupt
Old 1 week ago
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Just very quick sketch: Josephson C700S (MS) vs Schoeps MK2 AB. What do you think ? I will make more detailed comparison later (also with other acoustic instruments). I am a bit surprised

Josephson: www.savitastudio.com/mastering/jos.wav

Schoeps: www.savitastudio.com/mastering/sch.wav

I think both sound great, but the detail in the Josephson is what I'd go for. Thanks for sharing!
Old 1 week ago
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Just very quick sketch: Josephson C700S (MS) vs Schoeps MK2 AB. What do you think ? I will make more detailed comparison later (also with other acoustic instruments). I am a bit surprised

Josephson: www.savitastudio.com/mastering/jos.wav

Schoeps: www.savitastudio.com/mastering/sch.wav

I listened to the MS pair. The image is very much pulled to the left. Assuming you had the mic pointing at the instrument in the center, then something is wrong, either in your decoding setup or the figure 8 element is not symmetrical. Did you by any chance use the wrong figure8 capsule since there are two of them in that microphone.


I never played with 700S. According to Josephson website, there are two figure 8 elements in this microphone crossing from each other at 90 degrees, am I right? There is a third element as well, an 16mm omni one.
Old 1 week ago
  #65
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Just use the best mic you have, and if the best performance then you are golden.https://www.youtube.com/watch?
Old 1 week ago
  #66
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo View Post
... am I right? There is a third element as well, an 16mm omni one.
Yes - see data sheet

If you add the mid fig-8 and omni together, the resultant mid mic will be cardioid.

If you vary the levels between the two, you can adjust the mid mic betreen omni and fig 8 with all patterns inbetween
Old 1 week ago
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo View Post
I listened to the MS pair. The image is very much pulled to the left.
I don't understand this either. Or do we still have to perform some MS decoding by ourselves?
Old 1 week ago
  #68
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700S supposed to have three independent outputs from three capsules it has. It allows you to come up with all sorts of coincident pickup patterns, mono or stereo, if you know what you are doing with the required decoding process. The fact the posted sound clip has stereo image pulled to the left makes me to think the decoding is not done correctly, or the wrong figure8 capsule was used. I am assuming the figure 8 capsules are completely symmetrical.
Old 6 days ago
  #69
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The c700s has three independent capsules, W (omni), X (forward facing fig. 8), Y (side facing fig. 8). I typically combine W + X to taste for the Mid signal, then double up the Y, panning hard L / R with the right inverted for the Side channel. It's a gorgeous mic in pure analog decoding, but if you want to get fancy, you could convert the native B-Format signals into ambisonics, even upsampling to 3rd order with Blue Ripple Sound's Harpex plug-in (or Harpex), then decode to binaural or many other virtual mic patterns, mono or stereo. Most of the time I prefer the overall sound better in regular MS though.
Old 6 days ago
  #70
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boojum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo View Post
700S supposed to have three independent outputs from three capsules it has. It allows you to come up with all sorts of coincident pickup patterns, mono or stereo, if you know what you are doing with the required decoding process. The fact the posted sound clip has stereo image pulled to the left makes me to think the decoding is not done correctly, or the wrong figure8 capsule was used. I am assuming the figure 8 capsules are completely symmetrical.
I defer to your observations. Your ears are way better and you do not wear the hearing aids that I do. I do hear the 700 image to the left but not a whole lot. The Schoeps are centered so I am sure that my channels are set correctly.

Question: do you hear the 700 pulled to the left a lot or some? I am not sure whether my brain is going or the hearing aids.

PS - The Pearl DS 60, four cardioids at 90 degree intervals can be played with similarly as the C700. With front channel as a card and left as a card and right as a card, inverted, I am in MS. Use the left and right tracks again but right not inverted and I am in omni. The Pearl is a pretty nice mic but must be treated like a ribbon because of its ribbon-like rectangular diaphragms.
Old 6 days ago
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
Question: do you hear the 700 pulled to the left a lot or some? I am not sure whether my brain is going or the hearing aids.
I hear it pushed to the left for sure - not hard left, as the ambience fills out the right channel pretty well, but the direct sound is definitely not close to centered. I find the spatial imaging to be really solid with this mic, so my bet is on a mistake during decoding, probably using the wrong fig 8 as dseetoo mentioned.
Old 6 days ago
  #72
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I did not listen to the MK2 sample. No comments on that.

But, the 700S sample image is pulled in favor of the left channel by as much as 4dBs. I don't know where the center offset comes from; mic placement? figure8 not being symmetrical? Wrong figure8 capsule used? Decoding not done correctly? It could be any or all of those possibilities. Only OP can answer the question.


I don’t have the Pearl D60 but I do have bunch of MKH800twin so that I can use two of those microphones to come up with just about any coincident pattern, mono or stereo, very much like the D60. It is a lot of fun to play with those techniques.


Do you have any recording samples of D60 you can post here? Would love to hear the sound quarlity.
Old 6 days ago
  #73
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Yesterday I was researching pair of Josephsons C700 vs Schoeps, also trying to combine something like MK2 pair with side 8 tiny contribution or front Josephson capsule etc.

Well, my conclusion is maybe not really surprising .. In the very end I found I probably again prefer AB pair of Schoeps MK2 :D (I have not learnt from many other previous comparisons over the years

I tried direct comparison between Josephson and Schoeps AB. They sound a kind of similar, Josephson slightly bit harder , Schoeps more mellow and spacey. Definitely not worth to get another Josephson for a pair.

Whatever I added to the Schoeps AB pair, it was rather disturbing and when I removed it, it again sounded the best.

I tried again Josephson MS, decoding is easy (not sure if anything happened with the sample above) - just combining two front capsules and then LR side capsule with inverted phase on one side. Sounds nice but for violin maybe a bit too straight. However for guitar and percussions I may quite prefer it over AB Schoeps.

Josephson C700 is marvelous for vocals too ...
Old 6 days ago
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Josephson C700 is marvelous for vocals too ...
Indeed it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_WudP8z5c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DypP5GnMakQ

Last edited by David Spearritt; 6 days ago at 11:08 AM..
Old 4 days ago
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
I have a recording made in an art gallery of players in town for the annual Tenor Guitar Gathering. Less than ideal conditions with hardwood floors, plasterboard back wall and irregular interior walls interspersed with listeners. DS 60 > SD 788T 24/48. As W10 is down with a bad virus I am going to guess that there is mild compression on the track. It is MS. It is the whole gig. At ~15 minutes Grant Flick starts, a pretty good young tenor guitar player with fiddler followed by John Lawlor a seasoned jazz player at ~35 minutes. The whole show goes on for a little over two hours. It's not on the final so you don't have to listen to all of it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vyr...ew?usp=sharing

Apologies to Ivo for thread theft.


Hi boojum,


I very much enjoyed the recording, as well as the sound of Pearl DS60. Thank you for posting.

The sound seemed to be very health and beefy. Stereo image is very stable. Nothing to complaint. However, what I can’t figure out is how much of the sound in the recording is actually direct, unamplified sound vs. the sound coming out from the amplified speakers. It is a jazz/pop sort of concert I would assume some PA must be involved. If so, how much of the PA are you picking it up in the recording? I am asking because I am trying to evaluate the true sound quality of the microphones as I personally never record anything that is amplified. So, it feels quite foreign to me.

You mentioned it has gone through some compression, how was that done? Was it with onboard of SD recorder? Or, was it through DAW?



Best regards,

Da-Hong
Old 4 days ago
  #76
Gear Addict
 

I don't hear any image shifting in your recording. But since the music is not a mono source seated right in front and middle of the microphone, it is hard to tell if there is any shift.

DS60 being back to back two indenpendant cardioids in each microphone, it is quite easy to compensate for the gain difference, as well as slight frequency diffrence between the front and back cardioids in the post, provided you record all the channels seperately.


I would love to listen to some pure acoustic music recording from DS60.


regards,

Da-Hong
Old 3 days ago
  #77
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Thank you Boojum for posting it. I will listen to it carefully this weekend.
Old 3 days ago
  #78
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The MK2 sounded the sweetest to me, the slightly duller (or warmer, depending on the verbage) tone worked well on that track.
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