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Psalm51 in a classic college chapel on two fig 8s.
Old 26th September 2019
  #1
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Psalm51 in a classic college chapel on two fig 8s.

Lovely chapel.
Problem audience..
Great modern choir.
The pews are made from old pine and squeak ,especially when they all turn round to see where the distant voices are processing from.
Major advantage of the mid/side 8s ,recording front and back, gives some idea of the spatial characteristic of the unfailingly elegant ensemble.
Roger
Attached Files

CMF19.Music of Rome CD.m4a (12.86 MB, 982 views)

Old 26th September 2019
  #2
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Stradivariusz's Avatar
Allegri...Miserere.
Piece which used to be forbiden to perform outside of the Sistine Chapel of Vatican. Mozart stole it After hearing it has made a score of it from his memory. Piece of cake :D

Monumental music, beautifully captured, Rolo.


Edit: The second choir seems to be too far, but I guess it was an idea of the conductor.
Old 26th September 2019
  #3
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3 choirs actually Strad
Ist by the altar, 2nd in the pulpit ,3rd processing in from the outside quad
The musical director was very spirited, as were the choir.
Roger
Old 26th September 2019
  #4
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Stradivariusz's Avatar
It wasn't a critique. Kind of a question.
Anyway, have never heard it live. Hope I will once
Old 26th September 2019
  #5
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Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stradivariusz View Post
Mozart stole it After hearing it has made a score of it from his memory. Piece of cake :D
What Mozart did wasn't a crime. There was no concept of IP law, no concept of copyright. The vatican was just refusing to publish it.

I doubt it occurred to any of them that anyone could just hear it once, walk out, and write the whole score down. And Mozart was just something like 16 at the time anyway IIRC.

And it's a good thing Mozart made his copy, because (again IIRC) his is the only version to survive, yes?

It's been a long time since I read anything about this piece, so if I got any of the above wrong someone please set the record straight.
Old 26th September 2019
  #6
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Stradivariusz's Avatar
It's more about the complexity - at least at the first glance - of the piece which youg boy could write down after just hearing it twice. Pretty impressive. Actually manuscript didn't have anything special in itself. Some chords mostly. It was the art of the performers, their knowledge of style and improvisation art, what took place in this particular location and deep religious moment (Wednsesday and Friday before the Easter) what made this piece so mistique.
Old 26th September 2019
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
no doubt a great piece of music, must be on the all-time top 40 list of any choir! - i'm somewhat puzzeled though that you were referring to the psalm 51 and not to the composer... - why is that?

can't much relate to the choir(s) being 'great' or being an 'unfaillingly elegant ensemble': there are pitch issues, i don't like the positioning of the voices within the 1st choir or of the choirs related to each other, some voices show a bit to much virabrato for this genre (for my taste), there's a significant level drop and a narrow picture of the choir being far too distant and finally the distracting noise throughout the piece...

sorry for being somewhat rude but there are many brilliant recordings of stellar performances available that i'm having a hard time finding anything positive here!

wish the old ban (not to perform it other than during the holy week) would be put in place again.
Oh Dear....
Do you ever read a post before turning bilious?
If you heard the entire concert you might have a different opinion
Level is inverse to distance
Choir balance and tonalities are the musical directors creativity.
Your taste is immaterial.
Distant source is always narrow!
I explained the audience noise in the message.
Im sorry it doesn't measure up to a stellar performance during Holy Week and agree it is rude of you to be such a pain in the arse.
Roger
Old 26th September 2019
  #8
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I post clips to inform on sum and difference fig 8 recording
The music is incidental.
Your intent is unknown.
Roger
Old 26th September 2019
  #9
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
why then do you post clips if you can't deal with critique? - nevermind, i will refrain from commenting your posts...
I would guess Roger posts these clips for our enjoyment.

One of the challenges in this forum is being aware of the cultural differences that exist across the variety of nationalities of the participants. I have never visited Switzerland, but when in England I try to be a bit more 'proper' than the jocular chap I would typically be at home. We are a bit of a United Nations of recordists here...
Old 27th September 2019
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
if the thread however would have been something like 'hey folks, what mic technique do you think i used on this and would you agree it pictures the entire ensemble in a pleasent way?', we might have discussed just that.
Um, this is Roger/Rolo46/the MS master we are talking about here. Anyone who reads the forum already knows what mic technique he used. (And he uses it well!)
Old 27th September 2019
  #11
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I'm fully with Roger on the "let's listen past the performance to the mechanics of the capture" impetus for posting on here. If all we posted were 'CD release standard', the quantity of postings would be decimated...and we'd have nothing of an instructive (and constructive) basis on which to learn from others' adventures and discoveries. As it happens, Roger's MS/fig 8 miking samples consistently hit well above most other's batting averages here....

If I removed all of the 'imperfect' live renditions (often recorded at dress rehearsals, and posted anonymously here, to protect the guilty) there'd be scant few pickings to show.... !

Is this really the place for pompous second-rate Norman Lebrecht/Slipped Disc music-critic types to hang out and pass judgement on the playing ? I thought we were about the miking, about overcoming the many slings and arrows of outrageous obstacles thrown in our path by staging and venue requirements, noisy audiences, obstreperous video people, recalcitrant conductors and stage managers, etc etc ? Battle stories and scars, from the trenches of location recording !

This should be the forum that celebrates 'failed greatness'...with a dedicated aspiration to attain greatness (without the failures...or at least to minimize them) as part of the apprenticeship ?

BTW deedeeyeah, your sample audio postings (great or otherwise) are notable for their absence in extremis here....do you never record either great or failed soundchecks/dress rehearsals, such that you can illustrate your guiding principles with practical examples, to lend some/any credibility to your always-generous advice ?

Last edited by studer58; 27th September 2019 at 07:05 AM..
Old 27th September 2019
  #12
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I posted this clip and message to demonstrate the hazards of live performance with audience in a difficult venue.
The technique enables coverage for archive of a challenging performance and an extravagent acoustic location
The thought of 3 stereo + ambiosonic systems to capture it is quite lunatic, its bad enough to get one array in the right place, let alone an Albert Hall rig!
Im a one man band in a Festival of 70 performances and 20 new premieres!
I dismiss your contribution, it is pompous, its elitist and inconsequential.
Roger
Old 27th September 2019
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

Roger,

I'm sure you know this anyway, but your clips and posts are hugely appreciated by some - I suspect most - of us: personally, I find your concise (even cryptic sometimes!) posts easily amongst the most valuable on this forum.

Cheers,

Roland
Old 27th September 2019
  #14
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I do the festival work pro bono
Just for the fun of working with top musos and nice halls
I was in broadcast/film for 5 decades with one of the worlds major players
Your overview of the festivals is wildly inaccurate, without me the PA hire co would put up hand-held recorder and a crossed pair unmonitored.
I strive to be good at minimalism, Im proud of my productions, warts and all.
Roger Roger, Vector Victor.
Old 27th September 2019
  #15
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During Roger's tenure, I'm quite certain he had to solve a lot of problems to come back with a usable recording at all with the equipment and budget he had to work with. There's a lot to be learned from his experience. When he has something to say, I'm going to continue paying attention and be grateful that he's willing to share his knowledge.

Mozart wrote the piece down from memory after hearing it once? That's amazing.
Old 27th September 2019
  #16
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Ive been posting pix of this Festival and samples for 10 yrs!
The 3rd choir is processing in from outside the chapel at the rear of the church, that obviously is why it is so distant.
That is the production effect.
The first pic is full choir
The 2nd is the 2nd choir
The 3rd pic is the Altar Choir
The MKH 30/30 MS Rig is 10' behind the conductor at ear height.
The Nagra VI is behind the altar screen.
Im glad I did a reasonable job for 2 choirs, who are not the best you have heard.
I will inform the music director of their unsuitability and describe your 3 stereo rigs and one ambisonic rig for this public concert, I sure she will be delighted by your eminent proposals.
Roger
Attached Thumbnails
Psalm51 in a classic college chapel on two fig 8s.-img_1385-1-.jpg   Psalm51 in a classic college chapel on two fig 8s.-img_1383.jpg   Psalm51 in a classic college chapel on two fig 8s.-img_1385.jpg  
Old 27th September 2019
  #17
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thx for the pics.
Old 27th September 2019
  #18
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Stradivariusz's Avatar
Impressive what can be done with good ears and a pair of the microphones.
Old 5th October 2019
  #19
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boojum's Avatar
Roger, oh Roger, it is pretty damned hard to hit a moving target. Just when I think I have gotten my game up to snuff you go and do something like this. ;o) Fie on you, lad! LOL

I enjoyed the recording a great deal. I, too, am fond of the figure 8/MS technique. You have captured the moment and that is what I want to hear when I listen to a recording. Yes the technically perfect recordings are exciting but they do not wear well. This little gem, pew squeaks and all, will always be a comfort. Thanks
Old 5th October 2019
  #20
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voltronic's Avatar
 

Nicely done as usual, Roger.

I have performed this piece before, in an Episcopal church where I was a chorister in a very fine choir.

The performance you captured is quite unusual. I have never heard of a 3rd group processing in. It is almost always done with a main choir and a smaller, distant echo choir.


Fun fact: That ornamented section with the high C in the echo choir soprano part is due to a transcription error!
https://medium.com/world-of-music/th...re-b4d21656798
Old 5th October 2019
  #21
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DaveyJones's Avatar
 

What's the choir?
What's the festival?

There are a few odd turns in the performance but they have a lovely smooth tone, perfect for the style of music and it's a good capture of the performance. This piece is notoriusly difficult to keep in tune for the duration made more difficult by both the extended range of the top soprano part and localisation of the different groups of performers.
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