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Larger than life piano
Old 24th October 2019
  #31
Gear Maniac
 
Stradivariusz's Avatar
Awful song...and so offensive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vrnDzOOlCI
No beauty would be made in the world without this "offense", so leave the admiration alone, just let it be.
Otherwise we die sad and disappointed.
Old 24th October 2019
  #32
After all, if we as privileged white men can’t double down when we make others uncomfortable, what is left for us in this society?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stradivariusz View Post
Awful song...and so offensive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vrnDzOOlCI
No beauty would be made in the world without this "offense", so leave the admiration alone, just let it be.
Otherwise we die sad and disappointed.
Old 24th October 2019
  #33
Gear Maniac
 
Stradivariusz's Avatar
I'm a part of 99% of hard working class, not the 1% priviledged.
Let's keep happy talk about music, recording and beauty included.
Old 25th October 2019
  #34
Gear Maniac
 
Haigbabe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hughesmr View Post
Simpler is so often better.
So true. Sometimes I’ve put up lots of mics for piano only to find that the pair of Sonodore omnis were actually the sweetest, cleanest and most true sound, the rest of the setup was not needed.

Better to be safe than sorry though.

Haigbabe
Old 25th October 2019
  #35
Gear Nut
HaigBabe, the world thinks your comment is officious nonsense.
Old 25th October 2019
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haigbabe View Post
So true. Sometimes I’ve put up lots of mics for piano only to find that the pair of Sonodore omnis were actually the sweetest, cleanest and most true sound, the rest of the setup was not needed.

Better to be safe than sorry though.

Haigbabe
Hi Haigbabe,

I have never really understood what thought lies behind statements such as "better to be safe than sorry" when it comes to mic setups. You either have a concept that you can make work or you change to one that works better. Putting up mics "just in case" mostly means you do not know what you are doing, IMHO.

There is no reason to believe that a single pair of omnis is better than, let's say, 4 omnis for a piano. It's just a different concept resulting in a different sound.

I might come across nitpicky, but to me this is an essential understanding of what we do.

Best,
Dirk
Old 25th October 2019
  #37
Lives for gear
 

when broadcasting (or in live sound), you better have some redundancy: an additional mic can save your but!

besides some safety, additional mics can offer a different soundfield or an alternate perspective: i mostly put mics on grand pianos so they can either portray the musician's or the conductor's perpective; then there are mics at a bit larger distance for a more generic approach.

however, i wouldn't use too many mics on a single instrument at the same distance and use them all together...

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 26th October 2019 at 11:10 AM.. Reason: edited for clarification
Old 25th October 2019
  #38
I agree about having a concept of what the setup should be and not placing extra mics ad hoc, but your setups are often quite complex, aren’t they? And the setup does offer some flexibility in terms of balancing between the different layers, correct? I assumed that is what Haigbabe was getting at; their setup can be used together, complementary, but ultimately to their ears, one part of it seems to be enough on its own.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dtf View Post
Hi Haigbabe,

I have never really understood what thought lies behind statements such as "better to be safe than sorry" when it comes to mic setups. You either have a concept that you can make work or you change to one that works better. Putting up mics "just in case" mostly means you do not know what you are doing, IMHO.

There is no reason to believe that a single pair of omnis is better than, let's say, 4 omnis for a piano. It's just a different concept resulting in a different sound.

I might come across nitpicky, but to me this is an essential understanding of what we do.

Best,
Dirk
Old 25th October 2019
  #39
Gear Maniac
 
Haigbabe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya View Post
I agree about having a concept of what the setup should be and not placing extra mics ad hoc, but your setups are often quite complex, aren’t they? And the setup does offer some flexibility in terms of balancing between the different layers, correct? I assumed that is what Haigbabe was getting at; their setup can be used together, complementary, but ultimately to their ears, one part of it seems to be enough on its own.
Yes, very true. And when Dirk suggests that a single pre-defined concept should be sufficient, perhaps he’s correct and we’re possibly saying the same thing but from different angles.

A concept of recording piano (for example) for commercial release for me would involve having more than two mics set up. It’s a viable concept. But then to find later that the room was so good, the piano so well maintained, and the artist so proficient that in fact the sound and magic was captured so well with two mics, the others were not adding anything (whereas very often they do!).

This also takes courage to know (and ears to know) that pulling mics out of the mix can occasionally be more beneficial than adding mics in. Not everyone is so brave. And even artists sometimes question a minimal amount of kit if they are concerned about ‘being larger than life’ (for example).

You only need four tyres on a car, who needs a spare?

Perhaps my comment about being ‘safe’ is from having an experience quite some time ago with a major label (back when big $$£€¥€£ were being splashed around) whereby I recorded the orchestral backing tracks for a big release but eventually ran out of time to finish the project but was happy to hand it on to another person the label approved of. The new guy complained that he didn’t have enough first violin material to work with the way he needed. Fair enough. I felt I had enough, but his artistic view was that he needed more.

So I learned that sometimes it’s about getting the best result for the artist and that my ‘concepts’ sometimes needed to be more thoughtful and based on the occasional unknown circumstances.

Haigbabe
Old 3 weeks ago
  #40
Dear all
Happy to share the release of this album. You will notice the lush hall reverb, not overly close but very detailed 'stringy' sound that I think makes this 'larger' than life - I talked with the artist and often things are too much in your face (loud but not large) or too distant without 'grain' (large reverb but thin). Hope you agree with the result! Details above in this thread.
Spotify link: https://open.spotify.com/album/5cGli...TjGOdKlXKwHTUQ

Apparently the mastering engineer was quite happy: except some spectral noise removal, a HP for rumble and half a dB of treble boost, all was kept as I recorded and mixed. Well, mixed with 2 mics....

Take care, hoping all of you are well!
K
Old 3 weeks ago
  #41
Lives for gear
 

upon hearing the results (why not post snippets here?), i can't relate to the original title of this thread.

nice balance between direct, reflected and ambient sound; don't like the stereo image though... - the player is quite good!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #42
Lives for gear
 
jimjazzdad's Avatar
Spotify...alas. Fortunately some samples are available on the artist's website: https://www.elianerodrigues.com/aeternum
Sounds lovely Korneel, great job.


Edit: I wish this artist would offer HD downloads - only physical CD or iTunes download available (or listen on Spotify). Why bother recording on a good instrument in a nice venue, with a good engineer, and then have it properly mastered...only to market it in conventional and somewhat crappy formats?

Last edited by jimjazzdad; 3 weeks ago at 12:44 PM.. Reason: Added PS
Old 3 weeks ago
  #43
Lives for gear
 
Yannick's Avatar
 

At first I thought it was too much bigger than life, and some processing (over)done - but then I noticed it is not a Steinway, but a really big Fazioli grand.



Sounds great to me.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick View Post
At first I thought it was too much bigger than life, and some processing (over)done - but then I noticed it is not a Steinway, but a really big Fazioli grand.



Sounds great to me.
Thanks Yannick, means a lot to me when YOU like it!
Fazioli 308, a beast indeed. It took me close to 1h to place the pair where I wanted, balancing basses vd treble, resonance vs acoustics, projection vs harshness (which I found close to problematic in this piano).
Old 3 weeks ago
  #45
Gear Nut
 

There are elements of the sound that are not to my taste - but these all have to do with Pianosaurus Rex, as Yannick suggests, and you've portrayed this instrument in a compelling and favourable light.

In any case, this is a fabulously enjoyable album - as composition as well as performance (...and within this 'too much of a good thing is wonderful' syncretic aesthetic, I'll admit the Fazioli makes sense).

Great job, and thanks for sharing the process here!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #46
Lives for gear
 
Yannick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by apotheosis View Post
Thanks Yannick, means a lot to me when YOU like it!
Fazioli 308, a beast indeed. It took me close to 1h to place the pair where I wanted, balancing basses vd treble, resonance vs acoustics, projection vs harshness (which I found close to problematic in this piano).
Indeed, they can sound incredibly rich, and even thru a good recording/playback chain, harsh. Difficult to find a sweet (literally) spot. In the hall they sound great.

Of course there are details I would like otherwise (more stable stereo image, more constant distance regarding the individual bass notes) - but I will not go there & at the same time suggest that 100% of my piano recordings are 100% perfect

Maybe 99%

As I say to my clients when they say I did a good job: I do my best - and sometimes that's good enough
Old 2 weeks ago
  #47
Lives for gear
 
fred2bern's Avatar
 

"Le piano Fazioli est magnifié par une prise de son démonstrative et Eliane Rodrigues nous séduit par son interprétation et ses intuitions convaincantes."
https://www.crescendo-magazine.be/ae...t-a-beethoven/

Nice review, so what?

Bravi.

Fred.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #48
Lives for gear
 
wildplum's Avatar
Very nice recording.
I think the key take away from all this (in adition to taking to the artist- a lot) is captured in this quote
"It took me close to 1h to place the pair where I wanted, balancing basses vd treble, resonance vs acoustics, projection vs harshness (which I found close to problematic in this piano)."

As is often stated- find the best spot to place the mics.
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