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Only can keep one pair of microphones
Old 1 week ago
  #61
Gear Addict
 

Honestly, I have not done any paid gig with just one pair for I don’t know how long.

But, if I had to pass the gate of microphone Czar, forced to drop everything else, the pair gets through the gate would be either the MKH800(Twin), or MKH20/30 MS combo. Damn it, I still can’t decide which pair to take. Help me out here. However, I will pass the gate wearing a pair of crocs for sure.
Old 1 week ago
  #62
Lives for gear
I wear Crocs in Aberdeenshire and Cornwall and would also take a MKH 30/30 or MKH 800 pair to any event with the Czar..
Old 1 week ago
  #63
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Without a doubt Schoeps MK2 (RH mode)... great on everything.
Old 1 week ago
  #64
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There is always the Brauner VMA, which, in my opinion won't suck regardless of the source.
Old 1 week ago
  #65
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DistortingJack's Avatar
 

Schoeps Colette CMC 6xt preamp with a MK5 (Omni+Cardioid) capsule.

I don't think there is much you can't record with two of these.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwanajim View Post
But in the real world, 6 MKH (2xMK20, 2xMKH30, and 2xMKH40) in those Rycote tubes doesn’t really take much more space than a pair of MKH800. And along with a Nagra VI/EMP or SD788, you have a compact system, that sounds great, can withstand the rigors of transport, rough handling, climatic extremes, and be relied upon to deliver professional results in an almost unending variety of real-world situations.
That's cheating, but possibly the best-sounding mic option available for a mini rig.
Old 1 week ago
  #66
Sanken CS3e for booming outdoors, plus Sennheiser MKH50 for indoors (and back up for outdoors for when the CS3e throws a rare hissy fit)
Old 1 week ago
  #67
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DistortingJack's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
Sanken CS3e for booming outdoors, plus Sennheiser MKH50 for indoors (and back up for outdoors for when the CS3e throws a rare hissy fit)
A shotgun and a supercardioid in a subforum where people look down even at cardioids!

It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it pays off for 'em.
Old 1 week ago
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortingJack View Post
A shotgun and a supercardioid in a subforum where people look down even at cardioids!

It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it pays off for 'em.


maybe it'd be more easy to bear for the die-hard traditionalists if the chosen shotgun at least would have been from one of their preferred manufacturers...



[loved the (super)cmit's on those few occasions i got to use them but don't have enough experience to compare them with models from other manufacturers - i find the akg c480b/ck69 (or with use of other capsules) very good and flexible though]
Old 1 week ago
  #69
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortingJack View Post
A shotgun and a supercardioid in a subforum where people look down even at cardioids!

It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it pays off for 'em.
haha!

Welllll.... all the location recording I do is on film sets
Old 6 days ago
  #70
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Plush's Avatar
It would be a pair of the Rens Heijnis modified Schoeps (60 volt) with the MK5 switchable cardioid / omni capsule. The Rens Heijnis Custom Built power supply and preamplifier would power the above.

Stand back and admire the natural sound.

With this combination, I often record a concert. The result is incredible. Go to my Soundcloud page and audition
"The Blue Bird."

A session requires more than just a pair of these mics.
Old 6 days ago
  #71
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hbphotoav's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
There is always the Brauner VMA, which, in my opinion won't suck regardless of the source.
I've been fortunate to work with a friend's Brauner VM1S from time to time (likely will use it for an organ recording later in the spring) and... yeah. I know...

He's a really good friend.

HB
Old 6 days ago
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
It would be a pair of the Rens Heijnis modified Schoeps (60 volt) with the MK5 switchable cardioid / omni capsule. The Rens Heijnis Custom Built power supply and preamplifier would power the above.

Stand back and admire the natural sound.

With this combination, I often record a concert. The result is incredible. Go to my Soundcloud page and audition
"The Blue Bird."

A session requires more than just a pair of these mics.
Extremely interesting and love your work on Soundcloud, Tchaik 5 (for example) is wonderful. I wonder which orchestra/conductor that was.

Would you say that this is the best way to record an orchestra (and maybe not just an orchestra) - with one pair of mics only. After all, with orchestra, should the conductor be the person to decide on balance, and we record what we hear from the audience perspective? This might also apply to a string quartet or any chamber group.

Do recordists use too many mics these days - just because they can?
Old 6 days ago
  #73
Lives for gear
MKH8020 pair
Old 6 days ago
  #74
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Yannick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo View Post
Honestly, I have not done any paid gig with just one pair for I don’t know how long.

But, if I had to pass the gate of microphone Czar, forced to drop everything else, the pair gets through the gate would be either the MKH800(Twin), or MKH20/30 MS combo. Damn it, I still can’t decide which pair to take. Help me out here. However, I will pass the gate wearing a pair of crocs for sure.
I would either take MKH800twin + MKH30, or a second MKH800twin as S mic. We could cheat, and actually have two MS stereo mics with M=omni without them knowing ;-)

Anyway, an 800twin is cheating, you need two preamps ...
Old 6 days ago
  #75
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Plush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurcher_lover View Post
Extremely interesting and love your work on Soundcloud, Tchaik 5 (for example) is wonderful. I wonder which orchestra/conductor that was.

Would you say that this is the best way to record an orchestra (and maybe not just an orchestra) - with one pair of mics only. After all, with orchestra, should the conductor be the person to decide on balance, and we record what we hear from the audience perspective? This might also apply to a string quartet or any chamber group.

Do recordists use too many mics these days - just because they can?
Hello Lurcher lover,
Greetings!
If the acoustic in the hall or church is excellent, one can often do very good work with only 2 microphones. The group must be arrayed and seated in a proper way for this to work, however.

On my Soundcloud page the Tchaikovsky Symph. No. 5 was the Milwaukee Symphony with Andreas Delfs, cond. At that orchestra I collaborated with principal violist Robert Levine to use a Neumann KU100 dummy head for binaural recording for every concert. They were the first orchestra in the world to offer downloads of the binaural recordings. There were many excellent binaural pick ups with that microphone and that good orchestra.

I had the luxury of having the backing of orchestra management who set aside time for us to place the dummy head in the exact correct position. Experimentation was conducted during rehearsals in the three days prior to the concert. Usually microphone placement time is short with orchestra work, but I was afforded extra time for this innovative effort.

The operating principal that prep time is short in orchestra recording in America brings up the reason why many mics are used in orchestra recording. The reason is to cover all possibilities in re-balancing the orchestra and also to be able to offer close perspective oboe sound or clarinet sound or whatever instrument sound when the video of the performance zooms in on a particular player. So much of media is visually focused now.

Whether or not to use many microphones (upwards beyond 50) also has to do with from what tradition the engineer comes from. Decca tradition where 12-14 mics were used? DG tradition where the pioneering use of 30-50 microphones was instituted? German and Dutch technique has always specified many more mics than English recording tradition.

Certainly there are too many cooks (chefs??) involved in recording balances these days. Second guessing by the "producer" is tolerated now whereas in the past if the producer reached for a fader, his hand would get slapped!

We have moved from a time where balances were set at the session and a stereo recording was made to now being in an era where producers have a hard time telling when a mix is finished.

Getting to your question about recording a string quartet with two or a small number of mics. Let me refer you to Simon Eadon's recordings of the Takács Quartet on Hyperion Records. In Simon's recordings he chooses to use a main pair of Schoeps omni mics on a Jecklin disc. He supplements the sound with just one extra microphone on the cello. It is a lovely sound which wins all the top awards. Of course part of the reason this works is that the quartet is the best in the world and each player balances so well with the other players.

Lastly, I never want to offer an "audience perspective" sound in a recording. A recording is a separate art form and I ascribe to the philosophy that one should offer a heightened reality effect to the listener. So extra detail should be included without it intruding on natural sound.
Old 5 days ago
  #76
Many thanks for your detailed reply. I used to know the Takács Quartet as I often went to their concerts, especially at the Wigmore Hall here in London as well as at South Bank concerts. (I've even had a play on one of their instruments, a gorgeous Italian violin).

Yes, they are outstanding as a quartet, and I have some of their recordings. Hope to get to one of their concerts again soon.

I understand the reasons for using lots of mics when recording orchestras - often due to budget restraints and short setup times.

My limited recordings of orchestras over the years have been with just two mics. However, I think the use of more mics has been going on for some time. I remember a TV broadcast where they even put mics on the floor right by my chair in the viola section and I'm sure there were more mics dotted about, and this was in about 1980, or maybe a bit later.
Old 5 days ago
  #77
This is an interesting question, do you interpret it as “2 mics to keep working and doing professional gigs with”, implying that practicality, ruggedness, and flexibility are key factors in addition to sound quality,

Or do you interpret it as “your two favorite mics”, with no consideration for practicality, sound quality being the primary focus?

For the former, the MKH800 is incredibly appealing, though on any given day the Schoeps mk5 would replace it,

For the latter, the Josephson c617 would probably win it for me.
Old 5 days ago
  #78
Lives for gear
 

off-topic comment on the use of a multi-mic approach for classical music

as someone who's been using a multi-mic approach for many years, let me add (to plush's brilliant historical summary) that there are a couple more reasons for doing so, mostly (and to various degrees) based on technical aspects:

___

- if you were to use large mic setups for classical music with an all analog signal path, this put highest demands on technology (and engineering skills) or noise/hiss became distracting if not unbearable, unless you were using dolby sr which was not readily available (or affordable) everywhere or not wanted for other sonic reasons.

- for better s/n ratio you were also urged to use dynamic tools which some engineers refused to do (or still do) for various reasons (some good, some less good) ; let's leave it at that, so again for sonic reasons.

- with the advent of digital audio, first for tracking (replacing the analog multitracks), later also for mixing (in many cases), we suddenly got more options: lots of noise, the necessity for alignment of tape and level matching between gear were suddenly gone (or became way more easy)!

___


- now only 'because we can' imo isn't enough legitimation to go crazy on gear but using a multitude of mics on pretty much every instrument and/or section indeed allows for new sonic landscapes, with clarity and detail which were simply not possible to achieve by using tape and/or less microphones - an advance in the sonic territory.

- add the re-vitalized interest in multichannel audio (after the disaster of quad in the seventies): we now got more 'real-estate', the option to create dense mixes without 'overcrowding' the buses plus the option for static or dynamic panning of sources within the stereo, surround or even the 'immersive' soundfield! - another step forward.

(although i think surround for classical music gets heavily overestimated: at least i don't like to hear any instruments flying over my head when listening to classical music but taste/desire can be much different)

- surround mostly needs additional room mics - a technical requirement.

___

- another area which can profit from a multi-mic approach is broadcasting: you may want to capture and mix signals which then were are getting modulated for fm broadcasting differently from what you'll do for a recording - multiple mics for different purposes.

- some 'modern' composers have been very much aware of new trends and incorporated electronics (which necessitate amplification) and surround techniques into their work: loudest sound at the mic wins so you better use some directional mics to keep acoustic and amplified sounds apart - another technical requirement.

- add playing in front of very large audiences and even outdoors - tons of mics (and amplification) needed.

- finally, rquirements for mics get multiplied by orchestras playing along a jazz ensemble or even a rock band (and to complicate things, add a full blown tv/video production) - it's a sheer necessity to using a multitude of mics!

___


my 'typical' setup goes up to 48 channels and mostly consisting ot two stereo (or surround) main mics, two to three ambient pairs and the rest for a combination of section and close mics - with this many mics, i largely rely on directional mics, the use of expander and filters (to prevent to much boom), compression (to emulate what some distance between an instrument and a mic otherwise does) and efx (to re-establish a more 'airy' soundfield which one does not get from using directional mics) - i prefer hitting my tracks with pretty much 'finished' tracks so processing gets mostly applied on the way in (which necessitaes using a desk and reasonable monitoring): the most critical signals get split and also recorded unprocessed, same for ambis. together with efx, and stems/subgroups and the main mix, 48 mics mics mostly lead to 64 tracks.

my most capable interface does three times as many channels (at 48khz or 96 channels at 96khz); i hope i'll never get beyond that (or i'll gladly pass the job along)...

__


tough call to reduce to two mics... - it'd still be a soundfield or schoeps double-m/s (if not my beloved and now fully restored original u67)
Old 5 days ago
  #79
Gear Addict
 

I started this thread being completely hypothetical. I don’t do any paid gig with only two microphones, for as long as I can remember. But, I thought as an mental exercise if you were asked to live with only two microphones what would come up to your mind first, or perhaps last? And why?

So far, it seemed MKH800/Twin and Schoeps MK2/5 have gotten more votes.

As for myself, I would take MKH800s. They are extremely versatile, but more importantly they sound good and easy to use.


Da-Hong
Old 5 days ago
  #80
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Yannick's Avatar
 

Almost half of my paid gigs are with a MKH800twin plus MKH30.

3ch recording at 44.1 K only.

So, half of the time I am living on that hypothetical island
Old 5 days ago
  #81
Gear Maniac
 
PuebloAudio's Avatar
 

Smile

Before I shifted from full time concert recording to mastering, I had been frequently favoring either Schoeps mk21’s or B&K 4003 (with the various attachments) for 2mic work.

In recent times most of my recording jobs tend to be “live-in-studio” scenarios. In this environment I get a consistently wonderful results from a pair of Coles 4038 or Neumann CMV-563. Actually the 4003’s are used regularly, still, as well.

Hmmm, that’s more than one pair. I guess I’ll have to meditate on this further...
Old 5 days ago
  #82
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It's sort of "cheating", but I feel like I could do a lot with two Josephson c700s!
Old 5 days ago
  #83
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Anybody using MBHO microphones?
Old 5 days ago
  #84
Gear Addict
 

Sure this is cheating. The C700s has more than one outputs! But, so is the MKH800 Twin.
Old 5 days ago
  #85
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Anybody using MBHO microphones?
I have a pair (603s with omni and card), and they come out often- but since getting the big names I've used them as support.

For my one pair... RH Schoeps mk5s by a hair, for versatility.
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