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Dante location recording - Hard disk recorder for redundancy
Old 9th December 2018
  #1
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miketeachesclass's Avatar
 

Dante location recording - Hard disk recorder for redundancy

So I finally converted over to dante. I’m using 3 Grace m108’s and a focusrite pcier card in a thunderbolt chassis connected to a MacBook to record.

I’d like to put a hard disk recorder on the secondary network for redundancy in case my primary switch fails or my laptop freaks out during recording.

I was going to run a Mac mini running Dante Virtual Soundcard on the secondary network, but you can’t run virtual Soundcard on the secondary network.

All of the hard disk recorders I’ve been able to find seem to have no redundant ports, even the very expensive ones (with the exception of sound devices, but it’s almost $5k)

Does anyone have any suggestions? Should I just be getting another pci card and chassis for the secondary computer? I was hoping for an easy hardware solution, but it appears to be more difficult than I anticipated.
Old 9th December 2018
  #2
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JCBigler's Avatar
You can put a JoeCo BBR64-Dante on the Secondary network. Yeah they are pretty expensive. (Less than the Sound Devices).

And then you can run a laptop with DVS on your primary network, as a tertiary back up.
Old 9th December 2018
  #3
Warning: the SD970 does not support 96kHz DANTE.
Old 9th December 2018
  #4
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The joeco will allow being placed on the secondary network? It’s only got one dante port.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
You can put a JoeCo BBR64-Dante on the Secondary network. Yeah they are pretty expensive. (Less than the Sound Devices).

And then you can run a laptop with DVS on your primary network, as a tertiary back up.
Old 9th December 2018
  #5
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miketeachesclass's Avatar
 

Thank you! I did not realize this. Odd for such an expensive unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorseHorse View Post
Warning: the SD970 does not support 96kHz DANTE.
Old 9th December 2018
  #6
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you could get one of the newest rme interfaces which can do both madi and dante and then record onto any additional pc/mac.
Old 10th December 2018
  #7
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Tascam DA-6400 w/ Dante slot.

Old 10th December 2018
  #8
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JCBigler's Avatar
Not a bad solution. Price is right in line with the JoeCo BBR64-Dante, but the Dante card adds $1,000 to the price. But you do get secondary network access.
Old 10th December 2018
  #9
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miketeachesclass's Avatar
 

This makes a lot of sense, though for less money, I could get an additional RedNet PCIe card, the chassis to put it in, and a computer to run it on. But having it all in one place is attractive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
Not a bad solution. Price is right in line with the JoeCo BBR64-Dante, but the Dante card adds $1,000 to the price. But you do get secondary network access.
Old 10th December 2018
  #10
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miketeachesclass's Avatar
 

Good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
you could get one of the newest rme interfaces which can do both madi and dante and then record onto any additional pc/mac.
Old 10th December 2018
  #11
Assuming you have a good UPS protecting your switches and computers, and a good switch, you probably have a better chance of having a concertgoer kill you than having the switch fail. If the work you are doing truly demands no single point of failure, then I'd get the Tascam or JoeCo recorder because that protects you against the possibility of a common failure point in two computers with a common operating system.

On the other hand, having two computers with Dante PCIe cards means you have the ability to run two near-zero-latency DAWs independently for multiple projects and join them for when you really need the redundancy.
Old 10th December 2018
  #12
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miketeachesclass's Avatar
 

Yes, I think you’re right.

I’m using Cisco SG300s for my switches, so having the actual switch fail is pretty unlikely.

I think I’ll go the route of running a second machine with a pcie card.

I did a recording today with my main laptop with a pcie card and a headless Mac mini (connected with my phone via VNC) running virtual Soundcard. I suspect that’s as robust as will ever be truly required. I’d have to see a primary switch failure AND a laptop failure, or both computers failing to have a real problem.

I may be overthinking this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
Assuming you have a good UPS protecting your switches and computers, and a good switch, you probably have a better chance of having a concertgoer kill you than having the switch fail. If the work you are doing truly demands no single point of failure, then I'd get the Tascam or JoeCo recorder because that protects you against the possibility of a common failure point in two computers with a common operating system.

On the other hand, having two computers with Dante PCIe cards means you have the ability to run two near-zero-latency DAWs independently for multiple projects and join them for when you really need the redundancy.
Old 10th December 2018
  #13
I've run two machines with DVS now for two years, doing live recording and radio production. I have had one issue where one machine got noise on one track for a second and the other machine was clean. Never had a switch issue, and that switch runs 24x7 in my office/mix room when I'm home.

If I was doing work that needed overdubs, I'd give serious thought to the Rednet card, so I could get the latency really low. But for recording I don't care about the latency of DVS.
Old 10th December 2018
  #14
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90% of what I do requires no overdubs, but the 10% is why I went with the card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
I've run two machines with DVS now for two years, doing live recording and radio production. I have had one issue where one machine got noise on one track for a second and the other machine was clean. Never had a switch issue, and that switch runs 24x7 in my office/mix room when I'm home.

If I was doing work that needed overdubs, I'd give serious thought to the Rednet card, so I could get the latency really low. But for recording I don't care about the latency of DVS.
Old 11th December 2018
  #15
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I just received my Focusrite Red 8Pre today (after a month long back order!). I went to go have a look at the beta software to see what new features are available.

It turns out that Focusrite just today released a new beta software version for the RedNet Control, which seems to indicate that the entire Red line will now work with both Ethernet ports in redundant mode and not just Daisy chain mode. This is a HUGE deal as it brings the entire Red Net product line into redundant capabilities.

http://beta.focusrite.com

I have an email out to Focusrite support for confirmation of these improvements. I'll let you guys know what I hear.

If this is the case, that makes the Red 4Pre the least expensive redundant capable Dante audio interface, if it gets you i/o needs. Currently selling for just under $2,000 USD.

The only problem if that this new software is not Windows compatible yet, so I will have to fine a Mac to update my Red 8Pre, since I'm Windows based.
Old 11th December 2018
  #16
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miketeachesclass's Avatar
 

I got this response from joeco when asking about putting the joeco device on the dante secondary network. Not exactly confidence inspiring regarding their understanding of Dante.

“Providing that your Dante network is configured such that all the audio data is available on your secondary network, I see no reason why this won't work just fine.

Another possibility is just to put a network hub into the primary network to give you additional destination nodes. Either way I don’t see any reason for concern.”
Old 11th December 2018
  #17
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miketeachesclass's Avatar
 

I got this response from joeco when asking about putting the joeco device on the dante secondary network. Not exactly confidence inspiring regarding their understanding of Dante.

“Providing that your Dante network is configured such that all the audio data is available on your secondary network, I see no reason why this won't work just fine.

Another possibility is just to put a network hub into the primary network to give you additional destination nodes. Either way I don’t see any reason for concern.”
Old 11th December 2018
  #18
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JCBigler's Avatar
The statement about the network hub shows that JoeCo don’t really understand what a Dante network is or how they work. Putting a hub in the network won’t do anything to provide failsafe protection. If the primary network goes down, then you lose the hub also.
Old 11th December 2018
  #19
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miketeachesclass's Avatar
 

Exactly my point. Not to mention "Hub" vs "Switch".

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
The statement about the network hub shows that JoeCo don’t really understand what a Dante network is or how they work. Putting a hub in the network won’t do anything to provide failsafe protection. If the primary network goes down, then you lose the hub also.
Old 13th December 2018
  #20
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Wanted to update here, that the Focusrite Red interfaces (Red 4Pre, 8Pre, and Red 16 Line) WILL in fact run in redundant mode, despite the informaiton to the contrary in their own manuals.

Focusrite returned my inquiry and confirmed that they will run in redundant mode, AND that you don't even need the RedNet Control software to do it. You can change the mode of the two ethernet ports between swtiched (daisy chain) and redundant mode with Dante Controller. This setting is located in the Device View>Network Config tab for the specific device in Dante Controller.

I know they are not the hard disc recorders that you were looking for, but the fact that they will run in redundant mode makes them a very attractive piece of gear.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #21
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lukedamrosch's Avatar
 

Hi all,

I have been using some of the recent downtime to research Dante standalone recorders. Namely, the Tascam DA-6400, the JoeCo, and the Sound Devices 970. Just wanted to ask:

How do people still feel about the three of them in light of firmware updates, etc. which have no doubt occurred in the several years since their release?

From what I could see on the Sound Devices website, they have indeed now added support for 96k over Dante, with the channel count automatically reducing to 32 in that case, similar to other recorders. Is the case then officially closed on this former issue?

For you users out there, any reliability (or lack thereof) reports from amongst the three devices?

Any other devices I have missed which should be considered for this role? i.e. rock-solid backup recorder.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #22
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I am a big fan of the JoeCo BBR64-Dante. I run it at 96k which allows 32 tracks and currently backup on a MBP running Reaper. Never needed to use the backup so far but I am considering another JoeCo BBR64-Dante as a backup. I do not run redundant networks; I use SG300 switches and they seem pretty robust. As far as failure goes, any device in the network could theoretically fail at any time but the chances of any one device failing is slim.

D.

Last edited by tourtelot; 2 weeks ago at 03:31 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #23
Get a Ferrofish A32 Dante.

You can't have mine.

It'll turn anything into a Dante backup.

I have a Cisco SG350 managing all kinds of things on the primary; secondary goes solely to the Ferrofish (along with a primary feed, of course).

I generally run a nondescript Dell Laptop with DVS and Reaper as a backup, and then go MADI out of the A32 into an UFX+

Allows me to add all kinds of things via analog DSUB or Lightpipe.

Record to Reaper on a MacBook and redundant with DuRec.

That's triple backup.

Sometimes for fun, I'll also record to a pair of JoeCo's over lightpipe - just to have four copies of the multitracks.
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