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Schoeps CMC6/MK4 Frustrations
Old 21st January 2019
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_G View Post
Yes, all the Neumann KM 184 hanging from the ceiling at the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam as spot mics have got entirely new electronics built in. They have become useful tools where as none of us would ever consider the stock one.
Interesting. I did see them hanging, but I couldn't spot the brand. Then again, hanging, no spots.

Maybe even worth considering :-)
Old 9th August 2019
  #62
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Piedpiper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_G View Post
Does anyone know whether the mic parts pcb fits straight into the KM184? That would open the door for many.
It's the capsule venting that creates the aggressive treble peak.
Old 10th August 2019
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surflounge View Post
without being in a room to record, Schoeps can't handle outside weather. Often artists set up to record in conditions that require a microphone that won't fail from humidity or change in temperatures.
I've used CMC54's outside at least a hundred times and have never had any issues - dozens of times out on the ocean, and even in the Amazon rainforest for a week...I've heard this humidity concern repeated often on the internet, but it's never been an issue for me.
Old 10th August 2019
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surflounge View Post
without being in a room to record, Schoeps can't handle outside weather. Often artists set up to record in conditions that require a microphone that won't fail from humidity or change in temperatures.
This is news to me. I own over a dozen Schoeps- lots of different capsules, CMC5&6 bodies. I use them for mixing live shows outdoors regularly and I’ve never had an issue. I’ve heard of these issues and I don’t doubt that people have them, but never with any that I own.

-Ben
Old 10th August 2019
  #65
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I've definitely had them. They happen when the mic is considerably colder than the surrounding air, suddenly. Mic outside in the cold, suddenly brought into a car with several people in it, who had the heater on. Mic inside a cold air-conditioned room, suddenly brought out into a tropical, hot day. Answer: let your mics acclimatize. BTW, this issue can happen with other condenser mics besides Schoeps! It has to me.
Old 10th August 2019
  #66
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tourtelot's Avatar
May have been mentioned up-thread but having dirty diaphragms; dust, schmutz, not-been-serviced in many years, will exacerbate this problem that Philip talks about. Microphones, like other mechanical devices need occasional service. They work really well for lots of years, but they need a trip to their particular mother-ship every so often. I cycle through my mics in a sorta five year program, but admittedly, the ones that stay boxed up the most get less attention. I have heard that off-gassing foam in some cases (ha) adds to the problem but I hope the big-league players have sorted this out years ago. But I have never heard direct word fro Schoeps, Sennheiser, DPA, Neumann, etc that their foam is inert. Hmm.

D.
Old 13th August 2019
  #67
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Can anyone tell me how the CMC 6 mk4 compares to the CCM 4? I have a chance to buy a pair of the latter for a good price.

Are they essentially the same except physically?

Last edited by Piedpiper; 13th August 2019 at 07:32 PM..
Old 13th August 2019
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fifthcircle View Post
This is news to me. I own over a dozen Schoeps- lots of different capsules, CMC5&6 bodies. I use them for mixing live shows outdoors regularly and I’ve never had an issue. I’ve heard of these issues and I don’t doubt that people have them, but never with any that I own.

-Ben


Hi Ben,

Is it possible it is because you work mostly in southern California where the air is always dry and the condensation is not an issue?

Where I am in New York, I run into problems in the summer if I take my Schoeps from hot humid outside into an ACed concert hall for the first couple of minutes until they establish some equilibrium. I don't' work outdoors so wind is never an issue for me.



Best,

Da-Hong
Old 13th August 2019
  #69
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boojum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper View Post
Can anyone tell me how the CMC 6 mk4 compares to the CCM 4? I have a chance to buy a pair of the latter for a good price.

Are they essentially the same except physically?
Schoeps says, "The technical data correspond to that of the respective MK capsule."
Old 14th August 2019
  #70
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Piedpiper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
Schoeps says, "The technical data correspond to that of the respective MK capsule."
Not sure exactly how that answers my question. What I read on their site talked about the specs of mk 4 capsule when used with the CMC 6 body. The CCM 4 made no reference to the mk 4 or CMC 6, though the description of the two were identical except for the references to the compactness of the CCM 4, thus my question. Could you explain your post?
Old 14th August 2019
  #71
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boojum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper View Post
Not sure exactly how that answers my question. What I read on their site talked about the specs of mk 4 capsule when used with the CMC 6 body. The CCM 4 made no reference to the mk 4 or CMC 6, though the description of the two were identical except for the references to the compactness of the CCM 4, thus my question. Could you explain your post?
I read the Schoeps sentence as saying that the specs of the CCM4 are the same as the CMC64. Indeed, it would also be logically true. How confusing to have a mini mic different than the regular pencil mic. I am sure they want to keep things as simple as possible.

Agreed?
Old 14th August 2019
  #72
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I do not have an overabundance of Schoeps microphones, but when I bought my cardiods I decided to go for the CMC5 MK5 capsule, for three reasons.

The availability of the omni on that capsule as well as the cardiod, the rising top end, (only a db or so) which I felt would be good for using as a main stereo pair (in ORTF etc) - giving reach, and also because Tony Faulkner at the time used them extensively, and I liked the recorded sound that he achieved.

I can't say I have ever been aware of a foggy ambience with those at all, and I've had the opportunity of comparing them with a variety of mics from other manufacturers. They are always the mics I pick up first.

Certainly a rising top end can give the impression of a faster microphone and clean up an acoustic that is muddy or foggy, but I don't think a microphone should be blamed for the shortcomings of an acoustic, rather we should reach for the microphone most suited to overcome those shortcomings.

There is a home here for the microphones of all discontented Schoeps users, I suspect I will not be getting too many applications!
Old 14th August 2019
  #73
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Plush's Avatar
No, there is no fog.
Old 14th August 2019
  #74
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Piedpiper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
I read the Schoeps sentence as saying that the specs of the CCM4 are the same as the CMC64. Indeed, it would also be logically true. How confusing to have a mini mic different than the regular pencil mic. I am sure they want to keep things as simple as possible.

Agreed?
I would think so. Thanks for the clarification.
Old 14th August 2019
  #75
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Piedpiper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
No, there is no fog.
Given the discernible improvements by reputable techs such as Jim Williams and Rens Heijnis, perhaps another way to say it is that although "fog" does a disservice to great tool, there is nonetheless room for improvement.
Old 18th August 2019
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo View Post
Hi Ben,

Is it possible it is because you work mostly in southern California where the air is always dry and the condensation is not an issue?

Where I am in New York, I run into problems in the summer if I take my Schoeps from hot humid outside into an ACed concert hall for the first couple of minutes until they establish some equilibrium. I don't' work outdoors so wind is never an issue for me.



Best,

Da-Hong
I think we're talking two different issues. Condensation is a problem for any microphone. Not just schoeps. When I work outdoors, they will always have time to acclimate to the temperature. We quite definitely get lots of humidity at varying times of the year. One of my outdoor gigs I do every year is in the beginning of June- the so-called June gloom in Southern California. We get clouds and often almost a mist in the mornings. It isn't a regular occurrence, but we do get some rain as well in that season. It warms and dries up as the day progresses until the dew sets in the evening.

It isn't like the east coast with 90+ degree days with 90+ percent humidity, but we do have our own moisture issues to deal with.

--Ben
Old 23rd August 2019
  #77
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I just finished a documentary shoot in Toronto - including a 4 hour march through the streets of downtown in fairly hot and very humid conditions, and once again the cmc54's never failed me once...I'm not disputing issues others may have had, but it's something I've never seen with mine.
Attached Thumbnails
Schoeps CMC6/MK4 Frustrations-to_humidity.jpg   Schoeps CMC6/MK4 Frustrations-toronto_cmc54.jpg  
Old 23rd August 2019
  #78
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If you have humidity problems with your Schoeps Mkx heads, they are dirty. Send them to Germany and get them cleaned. No more issues. These are precision devices and need occasional maintenance. They are not Volvo 240s.

D.
Old 24th August 2019
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
... They are not Volvo 240s. D.
Ouch!! (Former 240 owner. But the 144 was nicer ...)
Old 24th August 2019
  #80
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I suddenly miss my '89 240DL.
Old 24th August 2019
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
If you have humidity problems with your Schoeps Mkx heads, they are dirty. Send them to Germany and get them cleaned. No more issues. These are precision devices and need occasional maintenance. They are not Volvo 240s.

D.
Except that I had the issues with brand-new Schoeps, back in the day....!
Old 24th August 2019
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
Except that I had the issues with brand-new Schoeps, back in the day....!
I guess that is what warrantees are for I can not remember a time that I had trouble with a Schoeps head, maybe way back when, but I will repeat my experience that clean diaphragms go very far to making the "Schoeps humidity problem" a non-issue.

Just my experience, but I used Schoeps mics on location for almost 40 years.

D.

Oh, and there are three Volvo 240s in my family and my 1989 245 has over 400k miles on it. Going for 1 million.
Old 24th August 2019
  #83
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boojum's Avatar
Humidity and Schoeps

I am just an amateur hack but I have been using Schoeps in America's raniest city the whole time. (https://www.bestplaces.net/climate/city/oregon/astoria) I have never experienced a problem yet. That's just one man's experience where it rains an average of 86 iniches a year. The mics are protected when not in use. Yeah, I guess.
Old 24th August 2019
  #84
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Pure humidity is not really a problem for most microphones. The problem is sudden development of condensation water which happens when moving the microphone from being cold into hot and humid environment. Water will condense everywhere on and inside of the mic. The surface water will make a big problem until the microphone body temperature warms up to that of the environment.

So, yes, you could be in humid Orogen all your life but never experience any problem with your mics.

I am in New York where it is really hot and humid in the summer; I drive to a gig in an AC cooled car where the mics are much cooler than the temperature of the venue. I plug in my cold mic in the warm un-airconditioned hall and they do spit noise for a while until they all warm up. That happens predictably so you learn to live with it.
Old 24th August 2019
  #85
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Since everybody is claiming a general rule from their anecdotal experiences, I can only add mine. I've had it happen it twice with a CMC5MK41. First time, outside in the rain, inside a Rycote, no rain got in to the mic. Crackling and popping. Second time, after it had been serviced by Schoeps, restored to as new, after a night stored in a very humid environment, next morning fizzing and popping.
So, it does happen, and has nothing to do with dirty capsules. Why it happens to some and not others is not something I can explain, but if it hasn't happened to you, it doesn't meant they aren't prone to it, in certain circumstances.
It wasn't a big issue, because I switched to my Sennheisers, which never, ever display that kind of behaviour. But it's good to be aware of it.
Old 24th August 2019
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
I am just an amateur hack but I have been using Schoeps in America's raniest city the whole time. (https://www.bestplaces.net/climate/city/oregon/astoria) I have never experienced a problem yet. That's just one man's experience where it rains an average of 86 iniches a year. The mics are protected when not in use. Yeah, I guess.
I think Hilo, Hawaii would like to have a word with you
(126.7 inches average rain/year)
Old 24th August 2019
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
I think Hilo, Hawaii would like to have a word with you
(126.7 inches average rain/year)
And I used my Schoeps mics (5) there just fine!
Old 25th August 2019
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
I think Hilo, Hawaii would like to have a word with you
(126.7 inches average rain/year)
I defer to you. Hilo is the champ with about 50% more rain. I should have written US cities within the contiunental US. I'd rather be in Hilo, looking for some good poke and Kahlua pork.
Old 25th August 2019
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo View Post
Pure humidity is not really a problem for most microphones. The problem is sudden development of condensation water which happens when moving the microphone from being cold into hot and humid environment. Water will condense everywhere on and inside of the mic. The surface water will make a big problem until the microphone body temperature warms up to that of the environment.

So, yes, you could be in humid Orogen all your life but never experience any problem with your mics.

I am in New York where it is really hot and humid in the summer; I drive to a gig in an AC cooled car where the mics are much cooler than the temperature of the venue. I plug in my cold mic in the warm un-airconditioned hall and they do spit noise for a while until they all warm up. That happens predictably so you learn to live with it.
This is the nubbin of it: change from one temp and humidity to another. I remember well Manhattan summers. My only cure for them was Italian lemon ice.
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