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Trying to select a Great DAW for Editing classical music.
Old 18th May 2020
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
...in his threads, fine - but i don't like the repeated hijacking of this thread!
This thread is entitled "Trying to select a Great DAW for Editing classical music."

My responses have been 100% in direct response to that query and the specific follow-on queries from members. Hardly hijacking...
Old 18th May 2020
  #152
Here for the gear
 

A customer weighs in on CohlerClassical

I know I'm restating some of what I wrote in an earlier post, but as a classically trained cellist, I am thrilled with CohlerClassical.com and the great work Jonathan Cohler has done making source-destination editing possible and affordable in conjunction with Reaper. For musicians working on recordings that are recorded with actual instruments in a live acoustical environment with multiple mics in the same space (not in a studio booth with a click-track), it is a fantastic solution, one I have hoped for since I co-produced a CD ("Leo Ornstein Complete Works For Cello and Piano" on New World) in 2006 with a producer equipped with the high end and still very expensive PC software Pyramix. CohlerClassical brings this capability to Mac users as well as PC, in a format compact enough to fit on the 13" screen of a MacBook Pro, and at a much more affordable price. Jonathan is also incredibly generous with Zoom videoconference time to help train you, show you how various operations work, and find solutions to bugs and problems. All software people would do well to emulate his level of customer service which IMHO is outstanding. Instead of taking shots at him for promoting it, try the software. It's free and fully functional for two weeks. Sure it can be complex and it's possible to make mistakes, but he'll help you fix them. I'm not a software engineer. I'm a musician editing a new set of cello piano recording sessions, and this is a tremendous boon to my workflow while sheltering at home right now.

Wishing good health to all,
Josh
---
Joshua Gordon
Cellist, Lydian String Quartet
Professor of the Practice
Music Department
Brandeis University
Waltham, MA

https://www.allmusic.com/album/leo-o...o-mw0001396364

Last edited by joshcello; 18th May 2020 at 03:49 PM.. Reason: added details
Old 18th May 2020
  #153
Here for the gear
 

He's not hijacking, he's explaining. And he's done great work, and has a right to promote it. See my detailed post as a user of Cohler's software in this thread.

Joshua Gordon
Old 18th May 2020
  #154
Here for the gear
 

but Pyramix is not available for MacOS.
Old 18th May 2020
  #155
Here for the gear
 

I know Brad Michel thinks highly of Cohler's work here, eve as he remains a Pyramix user. That's the only software I've personally observed up close that had a comparable editing capability. Cohler's use of in/out markers to make the S-D edit is skillfully done. I hope Reaper will eventually make it possible for markers to stay in just the specific lane of a specific track group, that would be an improvement over having them covering each other at the top of the window which gets cluttered (no fault of Cohler).
Old 18th May 2020
  #156
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshcello View Post
I hope Reaper will eventually make it possible for markers to stay in just the specific lane of a specific track group, that would be an improvement over having them covering each other at the top of the window which gets cluttered (no fault of Cohler).
This may have been addressed in the most recent Reaper update (version 6.10...May 9th released) ?:

Take markers...changelog items

*improve label vertical positioning with mono channel mode on stereo media
*allow more lanes of take markers, especially on non-audio takes •
*avoid potential crash when media item source file is not available
*do not show take markers for previous recording passes
*fix adding take markers in various audio recording modes
*support adding take markers to empty items

• https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p=2279156
Old 18th May 2020
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cohler View Post
This thread is entitled "Trying to select a Great DAW for Editing classical music."

My responses have been 100% in direct response to that query and the specific follow-on queries from members. Hardly hijacking...
maybe start counting how often you've been linking to your product in this thread: too often for my taste - so yes, i consider this hijacking this thread.

nothing wrong getting into details in your own thread.

besides, i think developers, manufacturers, representatives etc. should declare their involvment into a product - unfortunately you're not the only one NOT doing so...
Old 18th May 2020
  #158
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
i think developers, manufacturers, representatives etc. should declare their involvment into a product - unfortunately you're not the only one NOT doing so...
Perhaps you didn't look at the signature line on every single one of my messages?
Old 18th May 2020
  #159
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didier.brest's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
unfortunately you're not the only one NOT doing so...

His pseudo and signature are quite explicit. Unlike John Willett praising tirelessly the Gefell microphones.
Old 18th May 2020
  #160
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didier.brest's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cohler View Post
the signature line on every single one of my messages
Actually only once per page.
Old 18th May 2020
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
Actually only once per page.
Interesting...I see that now, but that is the functionality of the BB not me. When I preview my message it has a signature.

Old 19th May 2020
  #162
Lives for gear
I don't see JC's presence as a developer being any less legitimate than when a company rep or tech from Sound Devices appears here to explain first hand some arcane function of a new MixPre or Scorpio, etc...or a rep from Merging chiming in to explain a tweak or firmware release or operating quirk of an Anubis or similar device.

Indeed, such appearances are frequently welcomed, as they can help users over operational glitches or bugs very efficiently. Now that JC seems to have toned down the product release and beta-test rhetoric, his presence is taking on a similarly assistive tone to those mfrs cited above.
Old 31st May 2020
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cohler View Post
I stand corrected! Thank you. So there is some basic video editing capability in REAPER. Not very intuitive or easy to use like iMovie or Final Cut Pro, but it is something.

In any case, that doesn't change my response regarding Cohler Classical.
So, if it's been now established that Cohler Classical (CC) has not disabled the inbuilt video editing capability (however primitive or basic that's considered to be) in Reaper, then can I assume that CC would edit a combined audio/video stream as the following YouTube guides illustrate ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-n0V_K...&index=14&t=0s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qBrzZl...&index=78&t=0s

As you can see, the video component is riding, almost parasitic, on the audio stream...you don't even have to see it if you prefer not to.

The way I envisage using either Reaper (or CC) is to produce the base take and subsequent repair/patch take as 3 or 4 camera data streams....in other words, do the camera switches in my video editor, to produce a single audio/video with stereo audio...for base and all subsequent repair patch takes.

Then I'd use Reaper (or CC) to 4 point edit these streams as if they were audio only....they just happen to have video hitching a ride on them.

As the Reaper Manis/Kenny Gioia video shows, it's at least possible to transfer the same fade shape used on the audio to the video stream, which would be fine for my purposes. If necessary I could import the completed video edit into my regular video editor to tidy up the video splices...while I'm confident that Reaper/CC has taken care of the audio side of things.

Jonathan, you may not care one whit for the video editing capabilities of Cohler Classical, but I can assure that there are increasing numbers who would welcome the ability to 4 point edit video as easily as audio.

Given that Reaper seems able to show only 1 video stream (and thus not the 3 or 4 cameras I'd typically use)...my workaround is to produce each main take AND each repair/patch take as a multi cam single video/audio stream....and do the 4 point editing on that (single stereo audio track with multi-cam video combined)

If I've introduced a hitherto unrecognised (and marketable !) additional editing capability to CC for you, please accept it with the appropriate grace and appreciation.

Conversely, if you can see any reason why CC wouldn't function as I've described it above (ie an audio stream with an invisible parasitic video stream hitching a ride) then could you please mention it here....I'll take your announcement with similar good disposition

Last edited by studer58; 31st May 2020 at 12:34 PM..
Old 31st May 2020
  #164
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
So, if it's been now established that Cohler Classical (CC) has not disabled the inbuilt video editing capability (however primitive or basic that's considered to be) in Reaper, then can I assume that CC would edit a combined audio/video stream as the following YouTube guides illustrate ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-n0V_K...&index=14&t=0s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qBrzZl...&index=78&t=0s
Haven't tried it yet, but as long as you are using grouped items in track groups as defined on my site and in videos, there's no reason it shouldn't work, but...

If you attempt to do "assembly" editing (i.e. different things to different tracks), CC will prevent you. The fundamental nature of CC is that it is designed for multi-track, item-group/track-group editing. That means NOT independent editing of individual items within an item/track-group.

So if you use the video editing option where the fades are the same fades on the video as on the audio, it should work.

That said, with video, there are more complications. Namely, the video plays only the lowest numbered track in REAPER's somewhat klugy implementation, so until I try it out, I'm not sure how well that would work with the track groups which are higher number tracks. Remember REAPER doesn't and couldn't possibly know anything about my track groups. Only my software recognizes them.

The better way to do the editing of audio for video is to edit the audio first and then simply use vanilla REAPER to put it together with the video and put in your titles etc. CC has two important S-D functions that allow you to do sample-accurate edits of the audio, all the while guaranteeing that you are maintaining sync with the video.

This works for sure, is very fast and simple, and I have done many times.
Old 31st May 2020
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cohler View Post
That said, with video, there are more complications. Namely, the video plays only the lowest numbered track in REAPER's somewhat klugy implementation, so until I try it out, I'm not sure how well that would work with the track groups which are higher number tracks. Remember REAPER doesn't and couldn't possibly know anything about my track groups. Only my software recognizes them.
Remember though that my implementation involves no individual instrumental tracks, just a single final stereo soundtrack mix, with a camera track striped onto it. It will most likely be an MP4 video track, so that means 48k 16bit audio with 1080x720 25fps video. So there won't be any higher or lower numbered tracks ...just the single base take plus a number of repair takes, all simply stereo audio with video.

Not a very demanding ask, I'll give it a try in the trial version of CC...providing it can work with MP4 and not only wav, MP3, AIFF and similar audio only files ? When it comes to titling, adding slides and similar visual tweaks I'll do that from templates in my video editor...Reaper's too primitive for that.
Old 31st May 2020
  #166
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Remember though that my implementation involves no individual instrumental tracks, just a single final stereo soundtrack mix, with a camera track striped onto it. It will most likely be an MP4 video track, so that means 48k 16bit audio with 1080x720 25fps video. So there won't be any higher or lower numbered tracks ...just the single base take plus a number of repair takes, all simply stereo audio with video.

Not a very demanding ask, I'll give it a try in the trial version of CC...providing it can work with MP4 and not only wav, MP3, AIFF and similar audio only files ? When it comes to titling, adding slides and similar visual tweaks I'll do that from templates in my video editor...Reaper's too primitive for that.
Once again, CC runs on top of REAPER. Therefore it supports ALL file formats supported by REAPER.
Old 1st June 2020
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cohler View Post
Once again, CC runs on top of REAPER. Therefore it supports ALL file formats supported by REAPER.
Old 1 week ago
  #168
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Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh View Post
Could be, although it could also be that Windows is a better choice for an Ethernet-based networking environment like Ravenna. Macs don't even come with Ethernet ports anymore!
Although this is not the main subject of this thread I´d like to respond to it.

Every Mac has Ethernet even when there are only TB3 or USB-C ports on a MacBook Pro. With Adapters or break out boxes you get what you want
(Ethernet, Display Port, HDMI, …)

By the way Mac supports AVB since MacOS 10.6.8 nativ in the OS via Ethernet. With the right driver Ravenna and Dante are in daily business also on Mac ;-)

Back to Topic.
This is a quite interesting thread. For stereo or sometimes even up to 16 channels I still use Sonic´s soundBlade on an old MacPro with 10.6.8 and also on a new MacBook Pro with 10.14 (Mojave). Will keep it probably for a while.

For more channels there are good Solutions as this thread shows.
Old 1 week ago
  #169
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Remember though that my implementation involves no individual instrumental tracks, just a single final stereo soundtrack mix, with a camera track striped onto it. It will most likely be an MP4 video track, so that means 48k 16bit audio with 1080x720 25fps video. So there won't be any higher or lower numbered tracks ...just the single base take plus a number of repair takes, all simply stereo audio with video.

Not a very demanding ask, I'll give it a try in the trial version of CC...providing it can work with MP4 and not only wav, MP3, AIFF and similar audio only files ? When it comes to titling, adding slides and similar visual tweaks I'll do that from templates in my video editor...Reaper's too primitive for that.
FYI, several of our latest demonstration videos were edited using Cohler Classical, so for basic editing tasks, CC works fine with the video capabilities of REAPER.
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