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Tony Faulkner tries out some new Rode prototypes
Old 12th April 2018
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
New version of the NT5 matched pair, a new multi pattern NT-49, the new valve ribbon NT-RV, the new TFM-50, and some video mics which are already available.

Several new products that will be very nice for those of us in the classical music recording side of the business.

new R0DE mics
Not forgetting the accompanying 33 minute video, to whet the appetite.... RODEShow 2017 New Product Releases on Vimeo
Perhaps they had more important product releases ahead in the pipeline: Introducing the RODE FoodMic Pro - Cuisine Condenser Microphone on Vimeo

Last edited by studer58; 12th April 2018 at 02:33 AM..
Old 12th April 2018
  #92
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tourtelot's Avatar
So how much would a Rode M50 cost, ya think?

Now, what is Rode's target market.

Those two things are diametrically opposed.

No matter how great the M50 is, Rode will always be trying to make money by selling mics to it's target market. The M50 can wait.

D.
Old 12th April 2018
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
Didn't Rode also promise an upgraded NT5 at the same time? That was the reason I didn't replace mine after they were stolen last June. I liked the NT5 Omni capsules as well. Cardioid not so much, distorted easily with high SPL's.
Be careful what you wish for, or rather, use this waiting time to make up a new set of adapter cables for the NT5 Blacks.

What the hell am I talking about ?

See from 6:45 in this video: Anima Eterna: Interview with Tony Faulkner on Vimeo

Innovative hey...inconvenient, huh
Old 12th April 2018
  #94
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JCBigler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
So how much would a Rode M50 cost, ya think?

Now, what is Rode's target market.

Those two things are diametrically opposed.

No matter how great the M50 is, Rode will always be trying to make money by selling mics to it's target market. The M50 can wait.

D.
I'm hoping they will be in the $1,500-2,000 per pair (with power supply) range, which would put them within reach for simpletons like me. If they are much more than that, then they are going to just be a pipe dream, like a pair of real M50s is now.

Rode has always been a sort of boutique manufacturer. They make microphones for niche markets, like video cameras, cell phones, or project studios, and now the surround/360 degree recording crowd. They have made their name and reputation by providing a high quality product at a pretty reasonable price for users that are looking for something more unique than the big four (Shure, AKG, Sennheiser, Neumann).

Yes, microphones that are meant to record live classical music ensembles are a very niche market within a niche market. But by keeping the prices relatively affordable, they open up access to a much larger customer base than can afford the super expensive Neumanns and Gefells, etc...

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the NT-49, TFM-50 and new NT-5s won't be prohibitively expensive.
Old 12th April 2018
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
So how much would a Rode M50 cost, ya think?

Now, what is Rode's target market.

Those two things are diametrically opposed.

No matter how great the M50 is, Rode will always be trying to make money by selling mics to it's target market. The M50 can wait.

D.
Neumann have, within the last year or so, re-released the U67. Retail: approx $7k
Similar issues re a legacy product vs a new makeover and costing.
The thread itself makes for interesting reading: Neumann U67 2018 reissue internal View

Particularly relevant single posting is #29 in the above thread .....

Last edited by studer58; 12th April 2018 at 05:08 AM..
Old 12th April 2018
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
I'm hoping they will be in the $1,500-2,000 per pair (with power supply) range, which would put them within reach for simpletons like me. If they are much more than that, then they are going to just be a pipe dream, like a pair of real M50s is now.

Rode has always been a sort of boutique manufacturer. They make microphones for niche markets, like video cameras, cell phones, or project studios, and now the surround/360 degree recording crowd. They have made their name and reputation by providing a high quality product at a pretty reasonable price for users that are looking for something more unique than the big four (Shure, AKG, Sennheiser, Neumann).

Yes, microphones that are meant to record live classical music ensembles are a very niche market within a niche market. But by keeping the prices relatively affordable, they open up access to a much larger customer base than can afford the super expensive Neumanns and Gefells, etc...

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the NT-49, TFM-50 and new NT-5s won't be prohibitively expensive.
They (TFM50) might cost Rode $1.5-2k to make....but as for final retail price

If Rode are a boutique manufacturer they are selling to a heck of a lot of boutiques ! All those you mention and more...all of those make up "the Market" and Rode is a heavy hitter in most all of those boutiques. I just call them a generalist mic maker....

The prices you are wishing for are currently charged for highly esteemed pencil mics (German mostly)...without valves/tubes, external power supplies, supplied cabling etc that the TFM50 comes standard with. I'll be very happy to be proven wrong when they hit the market. Keep in mind the retail price of the reissue U67 (not sure if it's a limited edition tho' ?)

I'd expect the new NT5 black mics to be closer to the current NT5 prices, but they may well come with that new proprietary Neutrik adapter cable, to retrofit with existing XLR's ....so there's an upfront additional cost already ?
Old 12th April 2018
  #97
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JCBigler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
They (TFM50) might cost Rode $1.5-2k to make....but as for final retail price

If Rode are a boutique manufacturer they are selling to a heck of a lot of boutiques ! All those you mention and more...all of those make up "the Market" and Rode is a heavy hitter in most all of those boutiques. I just call them a generalist mic maker....

The prices you are wishing for are currently charged for highly esteemed pencil mics (German mostly)...without valves/tubes, external power supplies, supplied cabling etc that the TFM50 comes standard with. I'll be very happy to be proven wrong when they hit the market. Keep in mind the retail price of the reissue U67 (not sure if it's a limited edition tho' ?)

I'd expect the new NT5 black mics to be closer to the current NT5 prices, but they may well come with that new proprietary Neutrik adapter cable, to retrofit with existing XLR's ....so there's an upfront additional cost already ?
If the TFM-50s are in the $6,000-7,000 each range, that would make them an order of a magnitude more expensive than anything else Rode sells. I can't see Rode jumping the shark to that point.

If they stay at or below $2,499 per pair with shipping, then I can put them on my city P-card and I'll buy a pair the day they are released. Otherwise I have to send them out to bid and then there's all kinds of paperwork to justify why I need to buy them and restrictions on who we can buy them from, etc, etc..

If they are in the $1,500-2,000 range per pair, then I can buy a pair for myself relatively easily (I'll just have to sleep on the couch for a couple weeks after the wife finds out!).
Old 12th April 2018
  #98
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Hey, but what if the new Black NT5 omnis are 90% as good as the TFM-50........ ?

In a YouTubey and Vimeo kinda way you know what they all sound like together: YouTube

Anima Eterna Brugge & The Australian Brandenburg Choir - Beethoven Symphony No. 9 on Vimeo

Anima Eterna
Old 12th April 2018
  #99
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JCBigler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Hey, but what if the new Black NT5 omnis are 90% as good as the TFM-50........ ?

In a YouTubey and Vimeo kinda way you know what they all sound like together: YouTube

Anima Eterna Brugge & The Australian Brandenburg Choir - Beethoven Symphony No. 9 on Vimeo

Anima Eterna
I have the 96k two-track mixed recording and the DVD of that performance. And it does sound very, very good. My only qualms with it were the small and somewhat thin choir and then thinner sounding orchestra due to the period correct instruments. But that's an artistic thing, not a technical thing.

How do you guys feel about the current NT5s? My buddy has a pair, and they seemed s little bit bright to me, but we were recording in less than ideal conditions back then. Haven't heard them since.
Old 12th April 2018
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
How do you guys feel about the current NT5s? My buddy has a pair, and they seemed s little bit bright to me, but we were recording in less than ideal conditions back then. Haven't heard them since.
The NT5 with the cardioid capsule is ok, works for me as a general purpose spot mic, but it does have a tendency towards harshness when things get louder..it just doesn't strike me as a 'high resolution device' though.

With the NT45-O capsule on board it's a much better mic, and it has the similar sort of diffuse field peak at around 8-10k that the KM183 has, which means it works well at a distance. Apparently with 40cm spheres it's even better ?

You could also buy the NT6, which gives you the remote cable and both capsules (cardioid and omni)
Old 12th April 2018
  #101
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
My only qualms with it were the small and somewhat thin choir and then thinner sounding orchestra due to the period correct instruments. But that's an artistic thing, not a technical thing.
Yes, I agree that the orchestra sound very thin and out of tune, and not always very well together.
Old 12th April 2018
  #102
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ronmac's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
You could also buy the NT6, which gives you the remote cable and both capsules (cardioid and omni)
Correction....

The NT6 ships with cardioid capsule only, so one needs to purchase the 45o capsule if you want omni capability.

I purchased 2 of the NT6 at a very low price on Boxing Day to use as plant mics for location sound and theatre gigs. It probably won't get used much, if at all, for music.

I just received a Shapeways ORTF mount that will allow me to modify an extra Rycote blimp so that I can use them for gathering exterior ambiance on wide film shots.
Old 12th April 2018
  #103
Period instruments don't have anything to do with a thinner sound. Being out-of-tune does, because of stage situations (temperature etc.).
Here is the same orchestra in the same repertoire, but in a different hall, different conductor (me!), different choir, different recordings, some years later, different approach etc.... Completely different, but not thin at all I think.
YouTube
Old 12th April 2018
  #104
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by apotheosis View Post
Period instruments don't have anything to do with a thinner sound. Being out-of-tune does, because of stage situations (temperature etc.).
Here is the same orchestra in the same repertoire, but in a different hall, different conductor (me!), different choir, different recordings, some years later, different approach etc.... Completely different, but not thin at all I think.
YouTube
I like what I perceive as the greater body to the sound (strings in particular) in this performance/recording. I can only currently view on a very small screen (phone, as travelling) so can't engage in looking out for what mics were used. Could you summarise the mics and set up used for this occasion? (I can't see any spots, but this might be because my screen is too petite for this, or was it all recorded using a limited number of suspended mics?)
Old 12th April 2018
  #105
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Plush's Avatar
As far as guessing about the pricing for the TFM-50 microphones, I say that with the Tony Faulkner name attached, they will be a premium priced microphone for sure.

I guess $5000 each.
Old 12th April 2018
  #106
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
As far as guessing about the pricing for the TFM-50 microphones, I say that with the Tony Faulkner name attached, they will be a premium priced microphone for sure.

I guess $5000 each.
That's my guess as well, maybe $4999 and at that price, my TLM170s will have to do.

D.
Old 12th April 2018
  #107
At that price I'd just go after a set of FleA 50s.
Old 12th April 2018
  #108
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Be careful what you wish for, or rather, use this waiting time to make up a new set of adapter cables for the NT5 Blacks.

What the hell am I talking about ?

See from 6:45 in this video: Anima Eterna: Interview with Tony Faulkner on Vimeo

Innovative hey...inconvenient, huh
Well that IS a little strange. I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to scrap that idea on the production model. A little late to reinvent the wheel.
Old 12th April 2018
  #109
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celticrogues's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
As far as guessing about the pricing for the TFM-50 microphones, I say that with the Tony Faulkner name attached, they will be a premium priced microphone for sure.

I guess $5000 each.
I don’t think that would fit with Rode’s MO. It would be a huge change from their current customer base, advertising strategy, and overall image, and I can’t imagine they would do that.

Look what they did with the release of their first ambisonics microphone - they bought Soundfield and instead of the $3k+ mics formerly produced under that name they come out with one for $999 including shockmount and windscreen!

I’m going to be optimistic and guess $2500 for a matched pair of TFM-50’s. That still puts it as the highest priced mic in their catalog.

-Mike
Old 12th April 2018
  #110
I would be shocked if It goes above $2000 each. They are not hand made microphones. I bet the majority of the wait is their retooling for affordable automation of the new products.
Old 12th April 2018
  #111
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticrogues View Post
I don’t think that would fit with Rode’s MO. It would be a huge change from their current customer base, advertising strategy, and overall image, and I can’t imagine they would do that.

-Mike
That's why I am guessing we haven't seen them. And my bet is on "never seeing them." Too far out of their market. It would be like Yugo trying to sell a $100,000 automobile.

D.
Old 12th April 2018
  #112
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Plush's Avatar
We will just have to wait and see if the mic appears at all. Who knows what the price will be?

The new Ambisonic mic is super cool. It is a mic made to be used with software. It’s price cannot be compared to other mics in the Soundfield range which come with an interface box and electronics to run the mic. At $999 I bet many will buy the new Ambisonic offering.

It’s pie in the sky thinking to guess that a Rolls-Royce product like the TFM-50 will be inexpensive.

Cheapies have been so spoiled by cheap recording gear.

Record it on your iPhone.
Old 12th April 2018
  #113
Sorry, Hudson, I can only partially agree. The "magic" of the mic is in the design (now known as patents have expired) and the materials (also known). What Rode brings is the ability to drastically reduce manufacturing and quality control costs due to their high degree of automation and the precision possible with their modern tooling. So to make a sonically equivalent mic, they'll have to follow the original design and use appropriate materials. But I suspect that's a small portion of the cost per unit, and the much larger cost for someone like Neumann is the cost of hand-making the microphones for the limited qualities they sell at their price point.

When Rode lowers the price point, they make it MORE cost effective for them, because they expand the market to many more buyers - that makes it worthwhile to do the work to bring the mic to production.

Rode has always managed to figure out the math of setting the appropriate price point so that they can sell enough mics at the price point to make a profit. They aren't "cheap" in terms of quality in many people's minds - and they get a price premium over the Chinese clone makers while delivering better value.

I look at the Ribbons - The NTRs are worthy competitors to old and current models costing many times as much. I'd expect Rode to maintain that tradition and would expect to see the TFM50 in the 1200-1500 range.

Last edited by TMetzinger; 13th April 2018 at 12:21 AM..
Old 12th April 2018
  #114
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JCBigler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
It’s pie in the sky thinking to guess that a Rolls-Royce product like the TFM-50 will be inexpensive.
I don't think anyone here thinks that the TFM-50, when finally released won't be Rode's most expensive mic by a good margin. But pricing them at $5,000 each would put them at about 8 times the cost of their next most expensive microphone, the NT-R.

Rode's business model has been to use automated manufacturing to produce a high quality product at attainable prices. And by bringing their manufacturing back to Australia from China they have better quality control and can charge a slightly higher price and get better margins. At the same time they build loyalty and respect from their customers.

Hopefully we will hear something soon about price and availability.
Old 13th April 2018
  #115
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It's not as if Rode haven't produced a high grade tube mic before, the Rode Classic family was such a mic.

I suspect it became discontinued as they filled their range with lesser mics like the K2 which came so close in performance that people found it hard to justify the extra money for the Classic, so it became a high performing, higher priced dinosaur within their range.

RODE Microphones - Classic II Limited Edition

YouTube

I'm sure Rode would like the TFM50 to sell to Abbey Road, Skywalker, classic music broadcasters and independent/boutique record labels....right on down to the great unwashed like we folk here (haven't had my morning shower yet)!

Rode could become the great democratizers of high grade mic ownership, breaking down the barrier between those who could afford the M50's and those who could only wish for such a device.
Old 13th April 2018
  #116
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tourtelot's Avatar
Oh God! I sure hope the TFM50 sounds better than the Classic

D.
Old 13th April 2018
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
I'm hoping they will be in the $1,500-2,000 per pair (with power supply) range, which would put them within reach for simpletons like me. If they are much more than that, then they are going to just be a pipe dream, like a pair of real M50s is now. .....I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the NT-49, TFM-50 and new NT-5s won't be prohibitively expensive.
Hey pssst, JC, I've got a deal for you (whispers in ear)...an offer you can't possibly refuse ! Now clearly, you're not a 'money is no object' man, so.....

If you approach Peter Freedman very discreetly, I think he might quietly exchange you a couple of new, factory demo-model TFM50's for a 5 ton hill of those suddenly-excess-to-demand triple grade A soyabeans....you know, that fallout from the trumpocalyptic trade nightmare..... ?

It's what we Aussies call a Free Trade Agreement...and you're cordially invited to freely agree with our terms....we can make this thing work.... see, there is Justice in this world after all

This conversation never happened, ok .....

* Uh....let's make that 8 tons....win/win all 'round, eh !
Old 13th April 2018
  #118
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fred2bern's Avatar
What a beautiful retrait for TF if the microphone is available one day...
Old 13th April 2018
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred2bern View Post
What a beautiful retrait for TF if the microphone is available one day...
...much more prestigious (and lasting) than having a plug-in named after you !
Old 13th April 2018
  #120
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fred2bern's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
...much more prestigious (and lasting) than having a plug-in named after you !


To me just another clone... and a cheaper one.

but it's the same as Bruce Swedien...

Too bad, getting older, wanting more money and all the gear that most people can't afford become with the TF or the BS the gear to get...
I wonder in wich shape are the ears of these men. Bruce is 83 today and TF (I know)?

Nothing against TF, but when I look to my CDs I don't have so many produced by him.
But I remember him selling already the Rode ribbon few years ago, sharing some takes on this forum... didn't like it, I found it sounded horrible. But That's my point of view.

To me it looks more like a mode effect, trying to sell microphones "sounding better than the original one" because TF modes it and Rode produce it...

Last edited by fred2bern; 13th April 2018 at 04:35 PM..
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