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-   Remote Possibilities in Location Recording & Production (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-in-location-recording-amp-production/)
-   -   Tony Faulkner tries out some new Rode prototypes (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-in-location-recording-amp-production/1086137-tony-faulkner-tries-out-some-new-rode-prototypes.html)

brhoward 20th May 2016 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by studer58 (Post 11906522)
so let's be thankful we have a manufacturer who's prepared to take such commercial risks, keep the quality bar high and advance the state of engineering beyond what was possible (certainly affordable...then and now) when the M50 was the choice of professional recording engineers.

While I'd love to have three M50's to practice my Decca technique :) Rode knows it isn't possible and sees this niche market. I can't wait to see what they sound like and get a sense of the build quality.

studer58 25th May 2016 12:06 PM

Just in case you've forgotten what an original M50 (and M49) looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mSselTZySM

tailspn 25th May 2016 10:00 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by brhoward (Post 11909335)
While I'd love to have three M50's to practice my Decca technique :)

Well, there's always the DPA 4041SP to try your technique with.

A.alden 26th May 2016 12:30 AM

I've been actually getting some pretty great sounds out of Telefunken m60s and the perspex sphere attachments they sell. They have deep, satisfying bass, but there's a character to the M50s that I still lust after. Almost every recording I've heard made with M50s sounds enormous and elegant.

The one thing the article doesn't reveal is what capsule material Rode is using. For those who have used a variety of M50s, what are the sonic differences between the early PVC, aluminum, and mylar capsules?

If Rode's goal is reliability, I would assume they would go with mylar, but the most sought-after M50s appear to be the aluminum-diaphragm ones.

Larry Elliott 26th May 2016 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tailspn (Post 11920613)
Well, there's always the DPA 4041SP to try your technique with.

Sorry for OT question - What are those stands?

tailspn 26th May 2016 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Elliott (Post 11920987)
What are those stands?

The 4041's are on 5 foot carbon fiber 7/8 diameter tubes, clamped to the Channel Classics A, B, and Center MS stands. Grace Designs mic holders used at the mic ends. The whole rig was really light, and as can be seen, did not put any strain on the primary stands.

The entire five channel ITU surround array consisted of three 4041SP for the A, B and Center, and two 4006 with nose cones as surrounds about 8 feet to the rear (the left surround can be seen on the far left of the horizontal picture, double hung under the Channel Classics Left Surround). It was for a Budapest Festival Orchestra Mahler 3 set of sessions.

studer58 1st June 2016 05:44 AM

The text of the interview is readable here: Stereo Masterclass | AudioTechnology Magazine

Here's the DVD on sale using the new Rode TFM50 mics, as described in the article: http://store.rode.com/collections/ot...s/anima-eterna

connloyalist 1st June 2016 08:32 AM

Thanks for the link, fascinating read.

I couldn't help but notice Mr. Faulkner's remark on the inner cardioid mics of his 4 mic array much discussed on this forum:

Quote:

TF: I started out with ORTF and subsequently NOS, but those spacings didn’t work in the array because I wanted it to deliver ‘reach’. Keeping the angle between the mics at 90°, as for NOS, I tried dividing my 66.7cm omni spacing by the Golden Ratio number of 1.618 and arrived at 41.2cm, and there it has stuck!
Notice the "41.2cm" as opposed to the 47cm we usually describe it as.

Of course, he goes on to say:

Quote:

They’re starting points. Setting the spacings and angles in stone with a microscope is not the best idea because much in sound and stereo is about time as well as distance, and the speed of sound varies with altitude, temperature, etc., which affects the time and phase relationship between microphones. Halls sound different depending on the time of day, the temperature, the humidity, and so on.
And to make it complete:

Quote:

TF: About a metre or so behind and above the conductor. The omnis are usually a bit too fat and ‘puddingy’ and the cardioids are usually a bit too thin and scratchy, so you’ve got a choice. Blend it all together when you get home.
As they say: "from the horse's mouth". I would recommend everyone here who reads the "Remote" forum to read this article :) It contains a wealth of information on mics and technique.

Regards, Christine

studer58 1st June 2016 03:19 PM

I agree Christine, a great read indeed. I for one am mightily heartened that a company like Rode has formed a creative partnership with TF, resulting in good products such as the NTR and (hopefully) the TFM50 (or whatever it ends up being called).

Clearly Tony stuck his neck out by championing the cheaper Rode SD mics at a time when it wasn't expected that someone of his calibre...etc etc. The sad sorry story of the fallout was enacted in this very forum, and clearly TF hasn't forgotten it, judging by the reference to it in the interview. However it's resulted in mic developments guided by "ears of sound judgement", with a tip of the hat to revered designs and operating principles from the early golden years.

It's a far cry from a guitar company (let's say Fender) selling its 'Eric Clapton Signature' model using superstar endorsement...I doubt we'll see Tony F's smiling face in ads beside the new mic, but I'm pleased it (and the new SD omni contender) have his input.

If more of his calibre were embraced by mic manufacturers in similar symbiosis we'd likely see devices which really broke new ground ?

Bruce Watson 1st June 2016 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by connloyalist (Post 11932807)
Notice the "41.2cm" as opposed to the 47cm we usually describe it as.

It's not just us. Faulkner himself describes it as 47cm. See his post #14, 3rd paragraph. He also talks about using the Schoeps mk21 capsules for the inner pair.

In the text interview above, he talks about using cardioids (not wide cards) at the 41.2cm distance.

In any case, I think it should be fairly clear that he means for these measurements to be starting points; they are not "written in stone" as it were.

heva 6th June 2016 03:32 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This picture of the Beethoven9th is on the Festival's FB.

David Spearritt 6th June 2016 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heva (Post 11944860)
This picture of the Beethoven9th is on the Festival's FB.

Now that's a spaced pair!

studer58 7th June 2016 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Spearritt (Post 11945598)
Now that's a spaced pair!

You mean the central pair...not the outrigger/flanks ?

Not really...there was a time later in the Ken Wilkie years when he abandoned the 3 mic Tree in favour of a 2 mic spaced centre pair, and this is pretty much in keeping with that method...2 to 3 feet was routine for Decca.

The outriggers are a different story, and there I agree with you...they seem to be more 'ambience' mics than capturing anything ensemble related ?

heva 5th July 2016 06:04 PM

Pictures on the DVD (interview with TF). The article above is in fact a transcript of this interview (with some inaccuracies).

Interesting to note that the interviewer talks about 'large diaphragms with the spheres behind them' whereas I thought the m50 were small diaphragms.

TheShadowV 16th July 2017 04:12 AM

I really wish there was some sort of info on the TFM-50; specs, release date, pricing, anything!

studer58 16th July 2017 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheShadowV (Post 12739827)
I really wish there was some sort of info on the TFM-50; specs, release date, pricing, anything!

You could enquire directly from the sauce...and share the good oil with us: [email protected]

TheShadowV 16th July 2017 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by studer58 (Post 12739882)
You could enquire directly from the sauce...and share the good oil with us: [email protected]

Both Sweetwater and Vintage King Audio inquired for me, but why not? I shot them an email. I'll post if I get any info back.

studer58 2nd August 2017 08:22 AM

....meanwhile, another Australian company has released a 'tribute to the M50':
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high...ew-now-u2.html

tourtelot 2nd August 2017 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by studer58 (Post 12770304)
....meanwhile, another Australian company has released a 'tribute to the M50':

I'm excited by this. I'll be curious to read what these sound like and by the time I get busy again in the fall, maybe there will be three to demo in the USA. Please, anyone in the know, keep us informed. I would jump at the chance to be able to (mostly?) replicate the M50 experience. Otherwise, I will never be able to get into that game :)

D.

studer58 4th August 2017 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourtelot (Post 12771078)
I'm excited by this. I'll be curious to read what these sound like and by the time I get busy again in the fall, maybe there will be three to demo in the USA. Please, anyone in the know, keep us informed. I would jump at the chance to be able to (mostly?) replicate the M50 experience. Otherwise, I will never be able to get into that game :)

D.

These folks are really big on doing all the brass milling and critical fabrication (including capsule making) themselves....I've never seen so many CNC lathe videos in one spot before (homepage and YouTube) !

Their Facebook page has a video of the M49 'tribute' model in production (see July 26 entry): https://www.facebook.com/BeesNeez/

It'll be great to see 2 Australian top-ranking contenders for the M50 (2017 style) replacement have products in the marketplace soon, although I have doubts the potential global buyers-base is sufficient to sustain both....hmmm, competition, a good or a bad thing ?

Mamboman777 7th January 2018 03:50 PM

I'm listening to the recording of Beethoven's 9th by Anima Eterna. Anima Eterna

Is it just me or does it sound to anyone else that nothing is in the middle of the stage? I hear a lot from the left and right (and it sounds brilliant, BTW), but I don't hear anything in the middle.

Bruce Watson 7th January 2018 05:00 PM

So.... what's happened to the TFM-50? It was announced a year ago, wasn't it? It's still not on the Rode website. Is it real, or is it vaporware? Anyone know?

lukedamrosch 7th January 2018 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Watson (Post 13056228)
So.... what's happened to the TFM-50? It was announced a year ago, wasn't it? It's still not on the Rode website. Is it real, or is it vaporware? Anyone know?

I'm sure you have already considered the following, but -- while I have no inside knowledge to back this up -- I would hazard a guess that there have been delays either in production or the real-world testing/fine-tuning stage, or both.

I agree it is somewhat tantalizing and frustrating to have it advertised so long ago while it's still not available, but it seems like quite an unusual situation. Very specialized product, explicitly endorsed and qualified by Tony Faulkner, the first (as far as I'm aware) attempt to re-invent this extremely iconic Neumann mic, likely to be quite expensive, target customers will be among the most selective and demanding in the business, etc. etc.

Hope it arrives in 2018 at last!

tourtelot 8th January 2018 05:39 AM

Sorta OT, but I am in the middle of a little pissing match with Rode. I bought a pair of NTG1 short shots for the explicit purpose of using them for audience mics on "pop" recordings on location.

I had used some other Rode mics in the past and was never particularly wow'd by them, but these will work fine for their use.

I got them and saw that the foam pop screens had "Rode" screened on them in large white letters. I was really unimpressed by that; I thought it was pretty tacky and unprofessional. I really had no interest in advertising the company on a stage where I was working. I tried to get rid of the logo; even resorting to Krylon flat black.

They would not go away! Whatever they used for the lettering came through everything. Amazing but still unacceptable.

Ended up buying two Wind Tech pop screens and writing the company a polite, but truthful, letter.

Never heard back.

Just a story, but thought it should be told.

D.

TheShadowV 8th January 2018 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukedamrosch (Post 13056338)
I'm sure you have already considered the following, but -- while I have no inside knowledge to back this up -- I would hazard a guess that there have been delays either in production or the real-world testing/fine-tuning stage, or both.

I agree it is somewhat tantalizing and frustrating to have it advertised so long ago while it's still not available, but it seems like quite an unusual situation. Very specialized product, explicitly endorsed and qualified by Tony Faulkner, the first (as far as I'm aware) attempt to re-invent this extremely iconic Neumann mic, likely to be quite expensive, target customers will be among the most selective and demanding in the business, etc. etc.

Hope it arrives in 2018 at last!

Unfortunately, that’s true. I ended up looking at something different for my upcoming album. It’s a shame. I think the TFM50s look awesome. Hopefully they’ll come out eventually.

studer58 8th January 2018 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourtelot (Post 13057331)
Sorta OT, but I am in the middle of a little pissing match with Rode. I bought a pair of NTG1 short shots for the explicit purpose of using them for audience mics on "pop" recordings on location.......

I feel the same about t-shirts, baseball caps etc which display commercial product logos....I want to go up to the wearer and ask them "How much did that manufacturer pay you to wear that for them, to act as their walking billboard"

Hang on ....you mean you didn't get paid ? Well, I assume they at least gave you the shirt or cap for free, in return for your public endorsement on their behalf.

Wait on, you're telling me you paid how much for that shirt/cap....wow you must really love their product a hell of a lot to want to act as their unpaid advertiser and pay that much for the privelege !

Oh I see...I'm paying for the right to use your corporate logo in a public setting..how stupid of me to have missed that obligation on my part

Considering how we applaud companies which coat their mic bodies in nextel, go for a slimline, unobtrusive profile (esp when cameras are pointed) it's ironic that a high profile company like Rode should be so crass in their approach to self-promotion ? I guess there's an inbuilt insecurity at play, that from a distance their shotgun mic looks like any other shotgun, and they're into the differentiation game via screen printing in as large letters as they can get away with !

If the user pool (like yourself Doug) fails to complain en masse, Rode will only continue the practice, assuming it's ok ...so kudos for your quiet word in their ear.

Alternatively you could try the approach I've outlined above...ie commence negotiations with them on the basis of "OK, I'll use your labelled windshield...now I estimate that's worth X dollars of unpaid advertising and sales to Rode over the life of my purchase, how about you reduce my purchase price of the mic by that amount ?" At the moment the 'free advertising' via windshield screenprinting worldwide must add up to a hefty amount saved by their advertising dept !

Alternatively, try running it over a cheese shredder, or using some light sandpaper to rub/grind the logo off......

tourtelot 8th January 2018 04:17 PM

Threw 'em in the trash. :)

D.

boojum 9th January 2018 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourtelot (Post 13058019)
Threw 'em in the trash. :)

D.

Where they belong.

studer58 9th January 2018 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourtelot (Post 13058019)
Threw 'em in the trash. :)

D.

Quick solution ! You shoulda turned them inside out, like a sock out of the washing machine....

JCBigler 9th January 2018 05:55 PM

I was just thinking about the TFM50s the other day and wondered what their status was, and if we will ever see then in production. I wish Rode would give us some kind of official update, even if it is just "we're still working on getting the last few bugs worked out, but look for them in X quarter of 20xx". shiee

Also, I really want to know the ball park pricing. Are we looking at $1,000 each? $2,000 each?