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Mkh 8030
Old 25th August 2015
  #1
Mkh 8030

So any news on this mic existing?...
Old 25th August 2015
  #2
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Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesClark1991 View Post
So any news on this mic existing?...
Sadly no. At least, not that I've heard, and I've been watching for a couple of years now. Sigh...
Old 28th August 2015
  #3
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Why not use the MKH30? If the other 80X0 are a standard, the MKH 30 will have:
1. No bloat in the tenor range.
2. Lower Noise
3. Higher output
4. Better patterns
5. Pad and Proximity/Roll off features no extra charge nor mess with adapters.
6. Which quality shock mount included.
7. The microphone exists is offered for sale.
8. Proven reliability.
Old 28th August 2015
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEGG View Post
Why not use the MKH30? If the other 80X0 are a standard, the MKH 30 will have:
1. No bloat in the tenor range.
2. Lower Noise
3. Higher output
4. Better patterns
5. Pad and Proximity/Roll off features no extra charge nor mess with adapters.
6. Which quality shock mount included.
7. The microphone exists is offered for sale.
8. Proven reliability.
A few retailers here in the UK have stopped selling them which made me wonder if they're clearing stock for something new. Obviously a smaller/newer model would shift the market to some degree, making it a bad time to buy. I might just bite the bullet and get a MKH30 though, seems like the MKH8030 just isn't gonna happen
Old 28th August 2015
  #5
Gear Nut
 
Haydn's Avatar
 

Been waiting for years too but haven't heard much.

As far as I know the price of MKH mics in the 2nd hand market hasnt gone down much since the 80X0 series came out, so even if the 8030 does come out I would expect an MKH30 to hold its value pretty well.
Old 28th August 2015
  #6
Lives for gear
Most used MKH 30s came from TV , they have dried up now
It is my favourite mic, I have 5
MKH 8030 would be of great interest to me for a smaller MS array
Old 28th August 2015
  #7
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That is exactly why I want it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
MKH 8030 would be of great interest to me for a smaller MS array
Old 29th August 2015
  #8
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Smile

All I know is that Sennheiser are working on an 8030 - when it will come, I have no idea.

My fig.8 of choice would be the MKH 30 - if you want small, go for the Ambient EMESSER (latest version) in the meantime.
Old 29th August 2015
  #9
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Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
All I know is that Sennheiser are working on an 8030...
Does that mean it's a priority? IOW, is it assigned and scheduled? Or is it not assigned nor scheduled, and management is willing to let people work on it on their own time if they feel like it?

I'm asking because in my decades of engineering work I've never worked for a company where anything other than assigned and scheduled work was actually done. That's because the assigned work was enough to require 50+ hour weeks. No one had any of their own time to donate to pet projects. Just sayin'.

So which do you think we'll see first? The rumored Schoeps CMD-2u that will implement AES42 mode 2 (not a priority, not assigned, not scheduled) or the Sennheiser MKH 8030? I mean, we could start a pool...

EDIT: I'm just a bit frustrated by both of these products failing to make it to market. That's the source of my sarcasm; it has nothing to do in any way with Mr. Willett, for whom I have the greatest respect. I'm adding this edit just to clear that up before anyone think any different.

Last edited by Bruce Watson; 29th August 2015 at 07:22 PM..
Old 29th August 2015
  #10
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
Does that mean it's a priority? IOW, is it assigned and scheduled? Or is it not assigned nor scheduled, and management is willing to let people work on it on their own time if they feel like it?

I'm asking because in my decades of engineering work I've never worked for a company where anything other than assigned and scheduled work was actually done. That's because the assigned work was enough to require 50+ hour weeks. No one had any of their own time to donate to pet projects. Just sayin'.

So which do you think we'll see first? The rumored Schoeps CMD-2u that will implement AES42 mode 2 (not a priority, not assigned, not scheduled) or the Sennheiser MKH 8030? I mean, we could start a pool...

EDIT: I'm just a bit frustrated by both of these products failing to make it to market. That's the source of my sarcasm; it has nothing to do in any way with Mr. Willett, for whom I have the greatest respect. I'm adding this edit just to clear that up before anyone think any different.
Well, I know and have spoken to the project managers of both companies - I *think* the 8030 will come first.

But I have no inside information as to dates.

Though I wish Gefell and DPA would also come on-board with AES42 microphones.

It would probably do them all good to get together on the AES42 circuitry that each could put their own mic modules on.

By "all", I mean DPA, Gefell and Schoeps - all small specialist companies.

Probably just a dream.....
Old 29th August 2015
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
So which do you think we'll see first? The rumored Schoeps CMD-2u that will implement AES42 mode 2 (not a priority, not assigned, not scheduled) ...
I think we can forget about that one. I will be surprised if it happens. I think AES42 is deady-bones, no-one wants it. Engineers love their preamps too much and have a perception that A/D conversion will keep getting better etc, don't want to be locked in. I actually think A/D has plateaued.
Old 29th August 2015
  #12
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Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
...no-one wants it.
I want it. I wouldn't say "no-one wants it" because my self esteem, while low, isn't zero.

Part of why I want it is that I too think that ADCs have plateaued. And I think that making the preamps part of the individual mic can let the mic manufacturer tailor the preamp to that particular design. I mean really, isn't that what a Schoeps CMC6 already is? Not much conjecture on my part there.

But a biggie for me would be that the digital coming down the cables would be dead quiet; the Neumann Solution D mics are reported to be almost completely acoustically black. Who wouldn't want that?

Not to mention the remote control that AES42 mode 2 gives you over the mics. Which might save a reasonable amount of setup time when mics are high overhead.

Now I can see that the studio guys who often want a "range of colors" are going to want to mix/match their mics with all kinds of equipment. But for classical and acoustical music, I think AES42 mode 2 has some serious advantages.

But back to the MKH 8030. I'm tired of waiting for it!

Last edited by Bruce Watson; 29th August 2015 at 11:49 PM.. Reason: spelling
Old 26th September 2015
  #13
Gear Addict
 

I asked someone from the Danish Sennheiser office about the MKH8030 about two weeks ago (start September 2015) and he said that he knew for a fact that it's still on the roadmap, but not anything more precise than that.
Old 26th September 2015
  #14
Gear Addict
 

Maybe we should help them with a Kickstarter page or something?
Old 26th September 2015
  #15
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Yannick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Boots View Post
it's still on the roadmap, but not anything more precise than that.
Yeah, right.
Attached Thumbnails
Mkh 8030-6a00e551f0800388340147e43058c2970b.png  
Old 29th September 2015
  #16
Here for the gear
 

I think Sennheiser really missed the boat by taking so long to design and release the 8030. One of the first mics in the 80xx series should have been the 8030. A figure 8 is a fundamental pattern, far more useful than a wide cardioid (i.e. 8090) by itself, not to mention MS, Blumlein, and DMS. I have a MKH 800 Twin and piggybacking an 8030 on it would make a sweet DMS setup. They would sell more of the other 80xx series mics if the 8030 was available. I'd buy two 8030s as soon as it's out.
Old 29th September 2015
  #17
Lives for gear
My suspicion is that there's 2 possible reasons for the non-appearance of the 8030.....

One, that it's technologically challenging because of the small form factor involved in the 8000 series...that perhaps getting it to work is constrained by the size limitations, and they'd rather not release it if there's a chance of inconsistent performance in the field over the long term ?

Don't forget that there was a run of recalls (or at least return/repairs) on the 8020's, which manifested some crackling and popping and was documented in this forum. Sennheiser doesn't need a repeat of that saga !

Two, that they have seriously underestimated the demand for the 8030, and consider fig8 to be a niche market ? Sennheiser are a commercial operation, and will have to offset R+D development costs against likely future sales. If they have already invested such resources and not come up trumps with a reliable, saleable product, maybe the accountants have already labelled the '8030 project' as non-viable and thus verboten ?

It would be nice to have an official statement from Sennheiser, indicating their current thinking, but they seem to be not such a company. They don't want to become another Volkswagen...!
Old 29th September 2015
  #18
Gear Nut
 

Better is an enemy of good. New cars are often worse than the old ones, but everybody wants a new car. Happily it's not the case in the prof audio world with the consumer, we prefer older but great sounding tools. Stiil some companies are trying to shine in this aspect. Instead of making a new better mic (in some ways better - for ex. price/quality ratio) would be good enough to make the MKH 30 cheaper. I'm sure they would sell them in hundreds of thousends.
Old 29th September 2015
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Don't forget that there was a run of recalls (or at least return/repairs) on the 8020's, which manifested some crackling and popping and was documented in this forum. Sennheiser doesn't need a repeat of that saga !

Also similar problems with other MKH8000 series, for a fact with 8040 and 8060.
Old 29th September 2015
  #20
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by notlance View Post
I think Sennheiser really missed the boat by taking so long to design and release the 8030. One of the first mics in the 80xx series should have been the 8030. A figure 8 is a fundamental pattern, far more useful than a wide cardioid (i.e. 8090) by itself, not to mention MS, Blumlein, and DMS. I have a MKH 800 Twin and piggybacking an 8030 on it would make a sweet DMS setup. They would sell more of the other 80xx series mics if the 8030 was available. I'd buy two 8030s as soon as it's out.
Agreed - when they said in 2008 that the fig-8 was planned for 2010 (!) I told them that was too long and they should really try and get it out earlier.

People will buy Schoeps instead of the 8000 series without them having the fig-8 capsule and not buy into the 8000 series at all.

Which I think has happened.

They will sell a lot more of the other capsules, simply by having a full line including a fig-8.
Old 29th September 2015
  #21
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
My suspicion is that there's 2 possible reasons for the non-appearance of the 8030.....

One, that it's technologically challenging because of the small form factor involved in the 8000 series...that perhaps getting it to work is constrained by the size limitations, and they'd rather not release it if there's a chance of inconsistent performance in the field over the long term ?

Don't forget that there was a run of recalls (or at least return/repairs) on the 8020's, which manifested some crackling and popping and was documented in this forum. Sennheiser doesn't need a repeat of that saga !

Two, that they have seriously underestimated the demand for the 8030, and consider fig8 to be a niche market ? Sennheiser are a commercial operation, and will have to offset R+D development costs against likely future sales. If they have already invested such resources and not come up trumps with a reliable, saleable product, maybe the accountants have already labelled the '8030 project' as non-viable and thus verboten ?

It would be nice to have an official statement from Sennheiser, indicating their current thinking, but they seem to be not such a company. They don't want to become another Volkswagen...!
I agree - yes the fig-8 is more difficult but I think they do consider it a bit niche.

They seem to go only on "how many will sell"; which is a bit narrow-minded. When it comes to a system like the 8000 series they should ask not "how many will we sell?", but, "what is needed to maximise sales of the series?".

Maximising sales of the series. the 8030 is essential (even if people never buy an 8030, they will buy into the series as a whole because they know they can get it if they need it). Also, a good selection of connection accessories is needed.

Both Schoeps and DPA seem to get this, both with a good selection of capsules and accessories - Sennheiser, unfortunately, do not seem to understand the importance of this.

In the meantime, the Ambient EMESSER is a good little fig-8 with the 8000 series if you don't want the size of the MKH 30.

It's a great shame as the 8000 series is a really nice series, if only they would complete it and not leave it as a half-finished system. I'm sure they would have sold a lot more if they had brought out the fig-8 much earlier.

Schoeps must be happy, though, as I'm sure that a completed 8000 series would have cost Schoeps quite a few sales.
Old 29th September 2015
  #22
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I sometimes think Sennheiser is only interested in Radio Mics and cans
Huge pro sellers Worldwide
Old 29th September 2015
  #23
Here for the gear
 

Yes, I understand a figure 8 is more difficult to design than the other patterns, but it's not like Sennheiser has not done it before. They could take either the MKH 30 or the MKH 800 capsule and design a housing to fit the MZX 8000. And yes, I know either of those capsules are too big to fit in the same 19mm diameter housing as the other 80xx microphones, but they could take a hint from the Neumann KM 120. That mic has a larger capsule housing and it's not the end of the world. I doubt anybody has thought "I'd buy the Neumann KM 100 mics, but that figure 8 capsule is just too damn big." Or Sennheiser could consider the MKH 30 or 800 capsule in a bigger housing as a interim design until they could design a smaller figure 8 capsule.

This is not an engineering problem; it's a management problem. If the Sennheiser management said "Design an 8030. You have one year." the engineers would get it done. I speak from experience; in my former life I was a design engineer with a major avionics manufacturer. If you have flown in a Boeing aircraft, your life has depended on my engineering skills. Anyway, if Sennheiser management said get it done, their engineers would kill themselves to do it. That's what engineers are like; give them a problem and they HAVE to solve it.

OK, rant off. I just wish Sennheiser would make an 8030.
Old 29th September 2015
  #24
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Yannick's Avatar
 

I know next to nothing about how to design a mic.

But.

I thought the active area of the capsule is the same in the 8000 series as in the MKH30-40 etc.

Logic would dictate that making a MKH8040 should be more complicated than an open design as a MKH8030.
A 8020 needs a housing, a 8040 needs some diffraction going on through the housing. A fig8 needs no housing to function.

Same goes for the MKH800 twin equivalent.

Marketing ?

Maybe it has to do with unsold stock, they have lots of MKH30 lying around (which nobody is buying, because we are all waiting for a 8030 )

???

Maybe they are only interested in headphones and wireless handheld mics and in-ear monitoring.

Maybe we are witnessing the end of an era.
Old 30th September 2015
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick View Post
Maybe it has to do with unsold stock, they have lots of MKH30 lying around (which nobody is buying, because we are all waiting for a 8030 )
If they wanted to do something sensible about that situation, like drop the price significantly to move unsold stock, I'd be very happy to assist them, and spread the word to others too ! There's nothing like a sale to stimulate stock movement. That they so rarely appear on the used market indicates their desirability (or does it just confirm the niche thing ?)
Old 30th September 2015
  #26
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by notlance View Post
Yes, I understand a figure 8 is more difficult to design than the other patterns, but it's not like Sennheiser has not done it before. They could take either the MKH 30 or the MKH 800 capsule and design a housing to fit the MZX 8000. And yes, I know either of those capsules are too big to fit in the same 19mm diameter housing as the other 80xx microphones, but they could take a hint from the Neumann KM 120. That mic has a larger capsule housing and it's not the end of the world. I doubt anybody has thought "I'd buy the Neumann KM 100 mics, but that figure 8 capsule is just too damn big." Or Sennheiser could consider the MKH 30 or 800 capsule in a bigger housing as a interim design until they could design a smaller figure 8 capsule.

This is not an engineering problem; it's a management problem. If the Sennheiser management said "Design an 8030. You have one year." the engineers would get it done. I speak from experience; in my former life I was a design engineer with a major avionics manufacturer. If you have flown in a Boeing aircraft, your life has depended on my engineering skills. Anyway, if Sennheiser management said get it done, their engineers would kill themselves to do it. That's what engineers are like; give them a problem and they HAVE to solve it.

OK, rant off. I just wish Sennheiser would make an 8030.
The MKH 800 capsule would be no good as it's a dual-diaphragm design - the MKH 30 is a single diaphragm design.

The MKH 8030 would be, basically, the MKH 30 capsule redesigned as a glued design - thus removing the outer screwed ring and making it smaller.

I saw the 8090 wide-cardiod about 5 years before it was released.
Old 5th October 2015
  #27
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I watched an MKH 30 go by on eBay yesterday. First one I'd seen in about a year. And it sold for nearly the price of a new one. The new price in US is $1250, this used sample in the UK sold for $1170, or 94% of new. Which is insane. The $80 difference is more than made up for by shipping and import duties.

Demand outstripping supply? Or just standard eBay weirdness? Whichever, this is only increasing my perplexity at Sennheiser's reluctance to sell an MKH 8030.
Old 5th October 2015
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
Demand outstripping supply? Or just standard eBay weirdness? Whichever, this is only increasing my perplexity at Sennheiser's reluctance to sell an MKH 8030.
It was a VINTAGE MKH30...that explains everything !
Old 5th October 2015
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
It was a VINTAGE MKH30...that explains everything !
So... standard eBay weirdness then.
Old 5th October 2015
  #30
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Yannick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
I watched an MKH 30 go by on eBay yesterday. First one I'd seen in about a year. And it sold for nearly the price of a new one. The new price in US is $1250, this used sample in the UK sold for $1170, or 94% of new. Which is insane. The $80 difference is more than made up for by shipping and import duties.

Demand outstripping supply? Or just standard eBay weirdness? Whichever, this is only increasing my perplexity at Sennheiser's reluctance to sell an MKH 8030.
That is weird, because in Europe the official price is now around 2K euro.
Must be that the European ones sound better ?
Audiophile versions ?

It is now cheaper to import a US made MKH30 to Europe.

6% customs + 21% VAT = 1450 euro plus shipment = 500 euro cheaper than a EU made MKH30.

Sennheiser - are you going insane ?

At the very least, this proves their business model for the MKH series is a bit shaky at least. Maybe we'll have a MKH8030 in 17 years then ...

Some stores are reporting the MKH30 out of stock in EU.

???
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