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Tell us about your last location recording... Condenser Microphones
Old 3rd October 2002
  #1
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Talking Tell us about your last location recording...

My last location recording was yesterday, at the FleetBoston Pavilion in Boston, MA with the Strokes.

What a wonderful Place that is. Great production manager and crew. Has anyone worked this venue? It's one of my favorite "sheds".

This recording was like a text book event. Everything went very well, from start to finish. Even catering was right on top. The band was solid as a rock and fun to work with. They were very interested in the recording process from start. They're the kind of guys you would like to hang with...

But, what a long day for us. We started out at the ASL field shop at 6:30Am. We finished off our preping from the night before and headed off to MA by 7:15AM. We had a 12noon load in, 3PM scratch and sniff, a 4pm soundcheck and doors were at 8pm, they went on at 11PM. (see "The five components to a successful location recording" for more info on our process) We got back to the shop the following day at around 6AM, nearly 24 hours later.

One of the highlights of this event, was the audience mic setup. I used six MKH416 short shotgun mics. We placed five across downstage in the following positions, < HL, HLC, HC^, HRC, HR> and the sixth one was placed behind the FOH position pointing towards the last 10 or 20 rows. Usually, I use 3 or 4 audience mics. Two in front, off the stage and one or two by FOH. But I never liked the sound I got when used in an Amphitheater setting. This mic placement worked out very well us.

If you have any questions about this event (like what I used to get that "distorted" vocal sound, etc.), just ask.

More importantly, tell us about your last location recording event...
Old 4th October 2002
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

My last remote gig was a solo acoustic player, easy 8 track setup

vocal split (beta 87)
fishman DI
km-184 around the 13th fret
421 on his fender twin that was used w/ pedal 1/2 show
schoeps ORTF pair stage lip facing the stage
pair of EV old omni's hanging from the ceiling for crowd.

Crowd response was uneven, which resulted in summing the two mics to mono and adding fake spatialization, which must make me ask..

6 audience mics? Please tell me you stem those down to one or two faders and either let them be or throw on some verb?

how does one make 6 different seating chart locations play nicely together?
Old 4th October 2002
  #3
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
well, the last one was in 1992 for the Ozzy Live and Loud CD. We recorded 4 shows on the east coast, Miami to Cleveland and two shows in LA, with Black Sabbath opening (Rob Halford on vocals). Ozzy did a guest appearance with Black Sabbath and the crowd was going nuts (still have those audience loops heh ) We used Dave Hewitt's truck on the east coast and Le Mobile on the west coast. Everything went smooth, no problems, both very professional companies.

In the early 80s I used to do the stereo sound for an outdoor show called Rockpalast in Germany. The TV trucks were all mono at the time and they hired the Dierks Studio truck for the stereo sound. The show was on the air live all over Europe (about 40 million listeners) and was recorded on 2" 32 track Telefunken machines at the same time for a possible later remix. You really think twice before moving a fader when you have that big of an audience. I had 15 minutes between bands to set up everything in the truck, while another crew was setting everything up on stage. The bill was: U2 - Steve Miller - Brian Adams - Joe Cocker - Cheap Trick, so no pressure there heh The one incident I vividly remember was me coming out of the truck after a long day in darkness and there was a tiger in a cage right next to the truck door hissing at me. My knees are still shaking from that surprise. It was part of the Steve Miller show, Steve used to disapear in that tiger cage during "Abakadabra"

Remote recording can be fun, but it seems like it is always a high pressure job.
Old 4th October 2002
  #4
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by mwagener

In the early 80s I used to do the stereo sound for an outdoor show called Rockpalast in Germany. The TV trucks were all mono at the time and they hired the Dierks Studio truck for the stereo sound. The show was on the air live all over Europe (about 40 million listeners) and was recorded on 2" 32 track Telefunken machines at the same time for a possible later remix. You really think twice before moving a fader when you have that big of an audience. I had 15 minutes between bands to set up everything in the truck, while another crew was setting everything up on stage. The bill was: U2 - Steve Miller - Brian Adams - Joe Cocker - Cheap Trick, so no pressure there heh
Yeah, but you know what? I'm sure you got your **** together really quick and it made you a better engineer. When I started doing FOH my skills got much sharper. Granted most of the places I work are clubs with 400 people or less but still, when a band comes on with no soundcheck you either deal and do a good job or you fold really quick.
Old 4th October 2002
  #5
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
You mentioned two of my favorite remote trucks. Dave Hewitt's Remote Recording Services and Guy Charbonneau's Le Mobile. I have sent them both an email, inviting them to this forum. I hope they find the time to drop by.

Speaking of Dave & Guy, it would be hard to believe it would go any other way then totally smooth, and perfect. Not only are they very professional companies, but IMHO, the best at the craft.

I recorded Nailbomb for Roadrunner Records during the 1995 Dynamo Open Air Festival in Einhoven, Holland. I believe we used the Dierks Studio Truck, but I may be mistaken. Lynx studios was also involved on this one. We recorded to two inch and DA88's.

I know what you're talking about when you said, thinking twice before moving a fader... I love that environment. There's nothing like that rush when you have an audience of that size on the other side of your master fader. Now that's power!

Wow, 15 minutes is a lot of time between bands. Have you ever worked on a revolving stage with non stop bands and music? A/B stage, one side is setting up while the other side is performing. You got to double crew that type of gig.

The lineup sounds interesting. How did the audience act with U2, Steve Miller, Brian Adams, Joe Cocker & Cheap Trick all on the same bill?

Having a tiger hissing at you after a long day in a truck is all you needed, right? The craziest stuff can happen on remote recording dates. I guess they used hydraulics to move Steve out and the tiger in, when they blacked out the lights, right?

I think the high pressure situation of the live remote is what keeps it real to reel.
Old 7th October 2002
  #6
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Michael,

Tell us more about the Ozzy Live and Loud CD. Based on the fact Dave & Guy both own Studer/Neve trucks, I know which consoles and machines you tracked with. But what, if any signal processing did you use. Did you eq and compress to tape or at the mix or both? Any special or additional mics added to the live show mic list?

Thank you in advance.
Old 9th October 2002
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 

Michael,

Any chance at a story?
Old 9th October 2002
  #8
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Hi guys

yes, I will dig into the memory banks, but right now I'm locked into the studio, starting a new project and as soon as everything is running smoothly (3 -4 days from now) I will get back to you with what I remember from that live album. sorry about the delay.
Old 10th October 2002
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 

it's all good.. keep on making music, my man, got that "gearslut habit" to support , right?
Old 11th October 2002
  #10
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

My last location recording was last winter.

We recorded a brass quintet in a church.

4 days :

day 1 : moving around the quintet all morning into different locations in the church to determine the best sounding spot. Then in the afternoon set up the mics ... spent all afternoon moving the stereo couple around to find the best sounding spot for that. We did set up close mic's for presence but ended up using only the stereo couple : a Schoeps ORTF 110° fixed couple.
Personally I prefered the sound with the 'presence' mics blended in but the quintet where the purist kind that liked the couple only sound better.


day 2 / 3 / 4 ..... 6 hours of recording a day : 3 in the morning / 3 in the afternoon.

signal path .... since only the couple was used quite simple : schoeps couple into avalon AD 2022 pre into apogee psx-100 for AD ... aes into 2 panasonic SV3700 DAT's.

everything transfered into ProTools and edited. Bounced into stereo files using only the MD2 mastering dynamics in the sys 6000 as an insert on the master fader.
Old 11th October 2002
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally posted by C.Lambrechts

signal path .... since only the couple was used quite simple : schoeps couple into avalon AD 2022 pre into apogee psx-100 for AD ... aes into 2 panasonic SV3700 DAT's..
Which schoeps amps / capsules did you use?

I have a matched pair of cmc6 amps with mk4v caps and bought them for stuff of this sort and they also translate well to the studio...

I have to control my self with the Schoeps, I once upon a time used them on everything, I now mix it up and they land up on stuff like hats....
Old 11th October 2002
  #12
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

The Schoeps couple I have is a MSTC 64 ORTF Stereo Mic. It is a fixed T shaped body. The capsules are MK4 matched pair cardioides.

I also have several CMC 6UG mic amps with a range of possible capsules from omni (MK2) to cardio (MK4) to super cardio (MK41) and 2 MK6 switchable capsules.
Old 11th October 2002
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

I know in the native deutchland and parts of the UK Schoeps are more commonplace and can be found 2nd-hand for cheap

any leads on used schoeps in your area?

I want more
Old 11th October 2002
  #14
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

yes I do ... they're not "that'" easy to find and still not what I would call bargains. But I know a guy who is into tubes and vintage gear and also schoeps / studer and that kinda stuff.

Last time I saw him he had a load of old schoeps tubes and some condensors.

I'll email his contact info if you want.
Old 11th October 2002
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

please do - [email protected]
Old 13th October 2002
  #16
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Talking What about my second to location recording gig?

Well, we had some back to back gigs Thursday into Friday. We parked, powered and setup the mobile unit on Thursday afternoon, for a Friday morning hit at 6AM for the WPLJ-FM's Scott & Todd Show. We had soundcheck & rehearsals with the three finalists of "the Scott & Todd New York Idol" contest WPLJ was running.

Our call time for Friday morning was 4AM for a 6AM to 10AM live to air show. Man, I hate early morning gigs, but it wasn't so bad when the girls came by the truck to hang out a bit after the contest.

After the gig we headed back to the field shop to drop off the truck and pick up our flypack (already prepped and ready to go) for an ABC Nightline UpClose TV shoot at CBGB's with Matt Haimovitz and his cello. It was the first time classical music been performed at CB's.

I was so beat, since I've been up over 48 hours with just three or four, 1 hour cat naps. I had to cancel my overdub session on Saturday so I can sleep. I'm glad it wasn't a remote date, 'cause I would have had to do it.

Here's a picture of Jillian, Tyra & Devon, the three finalists from left to right. Take a guess who won the contest? She didn't hit a bad note twice in three songs. It's not easy to be totally in pitch at 6 o'clock in the morning.
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Old 14th October 2002
  #17
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Man, now I regreat not being able to do that Friday gig with you.
Old 19th October 2002
  #18
Gear Addict
 

My most recent remote was yesterday.
It was also my first 96kHz session!

A good client of mine is making a solo record (his band is a local alt-bluegrass group). Since we don't have a grand piano here at the studio madd - he arranged for us to record at the local university piano professors house on his Steinway M.

So the rig was :
1 - Digidesign 192 (with extra AD card)
1 - ProTools HD-3
1 - Mac G4/933 (rackmounted)
2 - Firewire Drives (only used one)
2 - Avalon vt737sp (recently stereo matched at the factory)
1 - older Millinea Medea HV-3 w/new custom ribbon inputs
1 - Peavey VMP-2 tube mic pre eq (it was the backup - but it got used)
2 - Nuemann M-147
2 - Earthworks QTC-1
1 - Royer/Spieden SF-12
2 - Neuman KM84
+ headphones, headphone amp & cables, stands, etc

SF-12 -> MM HV-3
M147 pair -> Avalon pair
QTC1 -> Peavey VMP-2

I didn't fully like the way SF-12 or the M147 pair sounded on the piano by themselves - but together they were nice. Then after trying various locations for the omnis - things sounded pretty good. I tracked to 3 stereo tracks in protools along with an internally bus-sed rough mix. I decided to go for the 96kHz - and was pretty pleased with the results. I certainly heard a lot of extra detail.

I thought we were recording piano solo. But of course after the first song, the artist said - "oh yeah, I'm going to sing on this one". It was at this point that I was really glad I didn't just bring the HV-3, two mics and a Masterlink. I moved one M147 to the vocal - and kept the other one over the piano with the ribbon. But the sound was then too dark (compared to the first song anyway). So I moved the omni's a lot closer - and things were cool. I thought the Piano was good at 96k - but the quiet up close vocal at 96k was really cool. Next Wed we are tracking seven strings (probably doubled) - but that will be at the studio.

Lessons learned :
I think I like 96k.
I need to buy lots more stereo mic pres and more mics too (but I knew that already).
Old 20th October 2002
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

Paul - how did you have the Royer and 147s positioned, and what stereo configurations (if any)?

With that combo of gear - I would start by running the Royers into the Millenia. Put the stereo royer on a stand, and rig up headphones ( a goog headphone amp helps), and have the artist play while you walk around with the Royer while monitoring on cans until you find the stereo placement and spread you desire.

Once you feel like you have the room's vibe as good as it can get without any bad reflections going on in the lower frequencies - start placing the 147s somewhat inside the lid, or go for a close thing and go close high and low. You may want to run something darker that has good isolation to try and get the lower bass strings, running that track might give you some flexibility on the low end come mix.

It might be worth trying the km-84s inside the lid instead of the 147s, I would try the 184s into the avalons for starts, I like old 84s, not as bright as the modern issue.
Old 20th October 2002
  #20
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Paul - how did you have the Royer and 147s positioned, and what stereo configurations (if any)?

With that combo of gear - I would start by running the Royers into the Millenia. Put the stereo royer on a stand, and rig up headphones ( a goog headphone amp helps), and have the artist play while you walk around with the Royer while monitoring on cans until you find the stereo placement and spread you desire.

Once you feel like you have the room's vibe as good as it can get without any bad reflections going on in the lower frequencies - start placing the 147s somewhat inside the lid, or go for a close thing and go close high and low. You may want to run something darker that has good isolation to try and get the lower bass strings, running that track might give you some flexibility on the low end come mix.

It might be worth trying the km-84s inside the lid instead of the 147s, I would try the 184s into the avalons for starts, I like old 84s, not as bright as the modern issue.
The Royer did indeed go into the Millinea. And I did the headphone walk around thing somewhat. I was a bit rushed for time. We had 3-4 hours including setup & performance. I put the Royers and the M147's inside the lid - Royers centered with the M147's close Hi and Close lo. I put the QTC-1 Omni's outside the lid and quite a but up - but not that far away from the piano - the room simply wasn't that great and I already knew I was going to use Altiverb with it. I wished at the time I could have compared the KM184's inside to the M147's - but I didn't have time to swap back and forth much. I used that time instead to move things around a bit. Also - if I'd had another good stereo mic pre I simply would've thrown the KM184's in there too and checked out the results - but it wasn't in the cards that day.

When I do get enough $ to buy a piano - I'll hopefully buy some really nice mics just for that purpose. What would you guys use?
Old 21st October 2002
  #21
Gear Addict
 
Greg Heimbecker's Avatar
My last remote gig was thurs evening. We have an ongoing (4th yr) 20th century composers series that our orchestra conductor arranges featuring the best of our faculty and students. This particular show had a Kabarret theme and employed a few of the music thtr kids doing a campy schtick as well as a number of different ensembles playing Schöenberg (pt 2 of Pierrot Lunaire), some Weill (including the suite from the 3 Penny opera) and others.

It was staged sideways (mostly) across our stage in a converted 700 seat 50's movie thtr with the audience on one side of the stage and 1/2 a dozen tables up front for effect. The stage sets changed from piece to piece and I supplied a bit of reinforcement to a few of the vocalists.

My rig was a DA-78 HR being fed from a Mytek 8x96 at 24/44.1 from Earthworks 1024 and Millenia. My main pair were Schoeps mk21 (wide cards) about 10" apart at 100° or so. I tucked a couple of mk2h (omnis) into the audience up about 24' for ambience. I also used a Brauner Valvet for a number of the singers and a bit of definition for the banjo/gtr and accordian for the 3 Penny Opera. A split off of a ch on the Earthworks (love those multiple outs!) fed the Valvet to a Mackie 1042 for the light amplification.

Depending on the piece the main pair moved and went up or down to suit the ensemble on a "best guess" basis as the performers were changing between pieces. We had about 4 minutes to listen to the Schöenberg piece an hour before showtime as a soundcheck. The ambience mic placements remained static and were chosen for there convenience rather than by choice, the spread was about 35', not my 1st choice! The Valvet moved as needed.

The kicker to all this is that my wife had been in labor for about a day & a half already as I headed out the door for the gig. She woke up thurs morning gungho to get it on and start walking to hurry things along. I managed to get her to chill and let it come to her rather than making things happen. As it turns out our birthing coach had a class 35 miles away that evening also and asked her to wait as well. With all the changes and the SR element it would have been tossing my assistant into the deep end of the pool with lead boots, he learned a lot.

We got through the show just fine, packed up and toddled homeward about 10:30. Sara's water broke around midnight, we shuffled into the hospital about 1am and a 10lb 2 oz Jonas Adrian Heimbecker crawled out sunny side up at 4:50am.
yuktyy A completely natural undrugged birth and everyone went home at 10 AM after wrestling with the nursery staff for a couple of hrs and letting them satisfy themselves that it was a baby.

WE can't say enough about the Bradley birthing method. If your partners are thinking about birth you owe it to yourselves (and your offspring) to educate yourselves and check your alternatives. With both of our boys we left the hospital in 5 hrs and went on with our lives after beautiful, calm, undrugged births that left the hospital staff in AWE!heh heh heh

Yes my wife IS a goddessheh heh heh but preparation is everything!
Old 21st October 2002
  #22
Hearty congrats to you and your wife for anoher great production!
heh

Old 21st October 2002
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 

Quote:
WE can't say enough about the Bradley birthing method. If your partners are thinking about birth you owe it to yourselves (and your offspring) to educate yourselves and check your alternatives. With both of our boys we left the hospital in 5 hrs and went on with our lives after beautiful, calm, undrugged births that left the hospital staff in AWE!
Congrats! My wife and I did Bradley for both kids.. it was awesome!
Old 22nd October 2002
  #24
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Greg Heimbecker
. My main pair were Schoeps mk21 (wide cards) about 10" apart at 100° or so. I tucked a couple of mk2h (omnis) into the audience up about 24' for ambience. I also used a Brauner Valvet for a number of the singers and a bit of definition for the banjo/gtr and accordian for the 3 Penny Opera.
Greg, seems like you are "in the know" on the Schoeps vibe, let me ask you though...How tempted are you to beg, borrow, or steal another Valvet to try running those as a stereo pair? I have only heard the Klause Heine on female Vox and it was quite a nice listening experience... [/B][/QUOTE]

Also - a pair of mk-21 capsules has been on my to-do list for some time now, they are something that actually merrit the adjective "warm", I just would use them all over the dang place.

Being that you have the omni and sub-card schoeps bases covered, do you also have (or lust for) a mk-8 so that you can use those puppies in an M/S rig?

Wish I had a recording program like yours in my neck of the woods when I was coming up, the local place around here has an old tascam board, a newer tmd-4000, da-x8s, and mics more of the likes of c-1000s from what I gathered from students/clients. I was actually offered a gig that was to be a student's final project, yet I had to turn that down for all the ethical reasons
Old 24th October 2002
  #25
Gear Addict
 
Greg Heimbecker's Avatar
Hi Jason,

Actually I've wished I had 3 Valvets to try Decca Tree with. I do have a pair of M-149 and a VM1 though... hmmmm

We've got matched pairs of mk-4, mk-21 & mk-2h and 4 CMC-6. I would like to add a figure 8 and the brighter 2s omni cap as well someday along with a couple more mic bodies and some of the other handy gadgets. I'd like to try the mk-21h for the classical stuff I do, our hall gets pretty dark as you pull back.

Yesterday and this afternoon I'm doing marching band (indoors, not marching) with a ortf pr of KM-140 a flanking pair of mk-2 and a pr of mk-21 mid group to focus the brass and drums and highlight soloists a bit. I did ruffs last night for the director and pulled the 21s back to match the omnis leaving the ortf pr out front by about 8 ms. Sounds pretty good for a quick mix. Finding good sounding offsets between multiple pairs can be a slow, interesting process as different things on stage slip in & out of focus. I've been having pretty good luck with aligning the solo or spot mics with the omni pr and then nudging the ortf pr a sample at a time til things play nice. My ortf pr usually sits just under the omnis level wise, just enough to firm up imaging. How do you guys approach this?

Jason, we don't actually have a program here. We offer a summer workshop but our administration hasn't seen fit to offer courses during the year. I do still try to bring along a couple of interns/assistants when I find someone who is bright and MOTIVATED. Our facility serves primarily as a production facility for our students and faculty with a bit of outside work to help fund the place. (There aren't any commercial facilities here so we aren't stepping on anyone's toes in town.) I have around $50k of my own gear as well which nicely supplements what the studio has.

This morning I have a nice simple chamber concert with a variety of small ensembles then back to the studio for gtr & soprano then back to the hall for marching band again. Tomorrow's FOH for 6 big bands with Maria Schneider playing/conducting her charts with the top band I'll fly a pair and take some feeds off the 4k for that.

Have a Day!
Old 25th October 2002
  #26
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Greg,

Maria Schneider is a wonderful young conductor/composer. I love her work.

We had the pleasure to work with her (among others) when we recorded and broadcasted the "Wall to Wall Miles" concert last year from Symphony Space in NYC.

It was an awesome 12 hour marathon concert with over one hundred artists performing Miles Davis' body of work. It was aired on WBGO-FM in the NYC area. Parts of the performance were aired on NPR, nationally.

That particular show got us a 2002 TEC Award nomination.
Old 12th November 2002
  #27
Here for the gear
 
Kooster's Avatar
 

My last project done on my truck was Alan Jackson at the Pentagon in Washington DC. The show went off without a hitch. The show was in the inner courtyard and required about 1000 ft of cable. Due to the long cable distance I brought external ATI Mic Preamps to use sending the mic signals to the truck at line level. Just for yucks we did a comparison between the External Mic Pre's on stage and my API console mic pre's. In a blind test all who listened picked the API over the external mic pre's. We ended up using the console mic pre's.
My truck is now on its way down to Miami to record Bon Jovi on Friday. On next Monday I am leaving for Rio De Janerio and San Paolo Brazil to use a truck down there to record Rush for a live DVD.
Kooster
Record Plant Remote
Old 12th November 2002
  #28
Gear Addict
 
Greg Heimbecker's Avatar
KOOSTER! I bow in reverance... visons (or is it hallucinations) of Telluride's past flash to mind.
A moment of silence for Fred Shellman...

Steve,

The show with Maria was great once again. She was here with Dave Liebman several years ago for our jazz fest in April. She didn't play any piano this time out just did her martial art conducting thing which is always a delight. heh She's a brilliant writer! One of the finest out there today. If she gets serious about film scoring she could make a killing, might be too many compromises though.
Old 13th November 2002
  #29
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Kooster
On next Monday I am leaving for Rio De Janerio and San Paolo Brazil to use a truck down there to record Rush for a live DVD.
To what format will you be recording that show?
Old 14th November 2002
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 

Kooster,

I am not sure if you can really discuss this here, but I am curious to know your impression of the RUSH show post-Scovill.. I have a good friend who is a RUSH fanatic who, although knowing nothing about audio, called and asked me the day after he saw them last year ( he a been to a ton of shows of thiers) and asked if they changed something, because it sounded really "loose and ****ty" all of a sudden.. I am not blaming the engineer, I am just curious about the diffrence..

That was alot of typing for a question that can't really be answered I suppose
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