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HAPI, Son of Horus Audio Interfaces
Old 14th March 2014
  #1
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HAPI, Son of Horus

Now the audio interface market will really heat up. What a cracker of a device. This is going to be a killer.
Merging Technologies | Hapi Mic Pre & AD/DA Converter with RAVENNA AES67
Old 14th March 2014
  #2
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Now you can all dump your USB and Firewire/Thunderclap interfaces for good. Ethernet baby, all the way.
Old 14th March 2014
  #3
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Tommy-boy's Avatar
 

Question is - which ethernet protocol will last?

Ravenna, Dante, REAC, EtherSound, CobraNet, A-Net, or RockNet? And I'm sure there are others that I've missed.

This is what worries me about buying into the ethernet craze. I'd much rather see one standard.

-Tom
Old 14th March 2014
  #4
Gear Head
 
panphonic's Avatar
 

They are not all the same. Ravenna and Dante are both Level 3 protocols which use the internet protocol.

REAC, EtherSound & CobraNet are Level two - they use ethernet packets but not Internet Protocol

A-Net and RockNet are both level 1 and only use ethernet cabling.

They are all doing different things. There are other level three protocols, and the new AES67 standard should improve interoperability between audio over IP (level 3) standards.

This new Hapi box looks very interesting. Any word on pricing yet?

James
Old 14th March 2014
  #5
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy-boy View Post
Question is - which ethernet protocol will last?

Ravenna, Dante, REAC, EtherSound, CobraNet, A-Net, or RockNet? And I'm sure there are others that I've missed.

This is what worries me about buying into the ethernet craze. I'd much rather see one standard.

-Tom
There is a standard, it is called AES67

The Horus and Hapi interfaces can operate as AES67 devices in addition to the more advanced Ravenna protocol.

Make no mistake about it, for large installations AES67 is bound to be supported by most in the long run.
Old 14th March 2014
  #6
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by panphonic View Post
This new Hapi box looks very interesting. Any word on pricing yet?

James
Expect ballpark €1700 for the chassis which fits two cards and provides ADAT, AES, SPDIF and headphone outs. Madi is optional
This price may change, you never know until it hits the shelves in May/June

AD/micpre is ca €1200 and DA is ca €800
Old 15th March 2014
  #7
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Battery powered

For you location recorder people,
it is important to note that the Hapi can come with a DC input in addition to AC,
allowing it to be powered by a battery on location or for redundancy in an installation
Old 22nd March 2014
  #8
Gear Head
 

I'm so very Hapi that they're coming out with a smaller and more inexpensive version of the Horus!!! Can't wait to save up the $.

edit: Actually whoops, just realized this one is still a bit out of my price range as a home studio guy. I didn't fully understand that the input section is sold separately from the chassis. Still awesome, though, that they've made a cheaper version. Mid level studios can probably do this one. Best of luck to Merging Technologies.
Old 22nd March 2014
  #9
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Yannick's Avatar
 

Well, actually to me the hapi was a bit of a bummer.
It shows the horus chassis is overpriced.
It is also not much smaller (same footprint ?, 1unit), and not specifically made to solve the control room problem.

Who needs 8 highend DA converters to monitor and 8 pristine mic pres to talkback ? Couldnt they just make a lowcost single channel mic pre with decent specs ?
Old 22nd March 2014
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick View Post
Well, actually to me the hapi was a bit of a bummer.
It shows the horus chassis is overpriced.
It is also not much smaller (same footprint ?, 1unit), and not specifically made to solve the control room problem.

Who needs 8 highend DA converters to monitor and 8 pristine mic pres to talkback ? Couldnt they just make a lowcost single channel mic pre with decent specs ?
Overpriced?! Are you kidding? Well, I guess there's always Behringer. Start cobbling together a system with just the basic IO options and I think you'll be surprised what it actually costs. Now put it in a 2u box that is virtually silent and add the provision for an additional 48 mic preamps and converters and the ability to share all these assets across a simple network with no custom cables or snakes.....
We use the headphone amp for talkback. Just send the signal across the network and feed it out of phase to the two channels if balanced is required.
If you don't see the value in this system there are lots of other options out there. We like these enough that we have an order for 9 units to replace a whole host of converters and mic pre amps. You'll have to pry mine from my cold dead hands...
As always, YMMV.
All the best,
Mark
Old 22nd March 2014
  #11
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Yannick's Avatar
 

I am not talking about a loaded Horus, just the chassis.
I just prefer the option DAD took, less expensive chassis, no touchscreen - the touchscreen is virtually unusable in a live context anyway. It is so unresponsive it is impossible to use.

Both the ax32 and Horus are incredible value once you put more than three cards in. It is only amazing that for the price of one Horus, you could buy almost three hapi units...
Old 22nd March 2014
  #12
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Larry Elliott's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdonahue View Post
We use the headphone amp for talkback. Just send the signal across the network and feed it out of phase to the two channels if balanced is required.
Brilliant! - Thanks Mark
Old 22nd March 2014
  #13
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"IOM-HORUS AD8D/AD8DP

Features:
Discreet, Analogue-only Direct Outputs for each Mic-Preamplifer ... "

They won't tell if you don't!

discreet: definition of discreet in Oxford dictionary (British & World English)
Old 22nd March 2014
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panatrope View Post
Be gentle, Panatrope. Could be a spill chucker at work, but more likely English as a second, third, or fourth language.
Old 22nd March 2014
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdonahue View Post
We use the headphone amp for talkback. Just send the signal across the network and feed it out of phase to the two channels if balanced is required.
Hi Mark,

Can you elaborate on this.
1. Is Horus in a remote location on the stage?
2. What do you connect the talkback mic to at the monitoring location?
3. What's phase got to do with it.
Old 22nd March 2014
  #16
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[QUOTE=David Spearritt;9967320
3. What's phase got to do with it.[/QUOTE]

Old trick. Stereo headphone out becomes balanced mono out line. Feed mono L and R to headphone out, but with R phase reversed.

I have used this trick with a specially constructed CD with test tones recorded with the R phased -180 degrees, and the headphone output of a CD player becomes a QaD balanced test signal generator (no direct ground connection required).

Edit: ... and gives you 6dB higher level capability. Others of similar antiquity to myself may remember the term 'push-pull'.
Old 23rd March 2014
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panatrope View Post
Old trick. Stereo headphone out becomes balanced mono out line. Feed mono L and R to headphone out, but with R phase reversed.
Ah yes. I keep thinking others use stereo foldback like I sometimes do.
Old 23rd March 2014
  #18
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by panatrope View Post
They won't tell if you don't!
Clearly a spelling error. If they had spelled it "discrete", would that have been better?

Has anyone used Horus (or Hapi) on OS X in a production environment?

cheers,
Reynaud
Old 23rd March 2014
  #19
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post

Has anyone used Horus (or Hapi) on OS X in a production environment?

cheers,
Reynaud
One of the engineers at the Swedish Radio has a Horus for thorough evaluation and he has been given the beta drivers for OSX.
He reports 100% driver stability and reliability thus far.
Old 23rd March 2014
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klaukholm View Post
He reports 100% driver stability and reliability thus far.
Thank you, that is good news.

Is the driver still limited to 192k on OS X? In a mixed OS environment 384k support would be very useful, without having to compromise.

cheers,
Reynaud
Old 23rd March 2014
  #21
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
Thank you, that is good news.

Is the driver still limited to 192k on OS X? In a mixed OS environment 384k support would be very useful, without having to compromise.

cheers,
Reynaud
The driver is subject to core audio limitations, so max 192khz and no DSD.
Old 23rd March 2014
  #22
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Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaukholm View Post
The driver is subject to core audio limitations, so max 192khz and no DSD.
Right so it's not truly a custom driver then since Core Audio does whatever the driver specifies. Several 384k A/D use custom drivers for OS X and even DSD is possible according to the driver developers.
Old 23rd March 2014
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
If they had spelled it "discrete", would that have been better?
I think so. I presume it comes from the fact they are made using individual components, not integrated circuits. Though many manufacturers conceal the identity of their active components, and in that sense they may be also said to be 'discreet'.

This is a downside of having so many homophones in the English language. The upside is the amusement provided from so many possibilities for puns (intended or otherwise).
Old 24th March 2014
  #24
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Plush's Avatar
This HAPI makes me Happy!

Might order one of these bitches.
Old 24th March 2014
  #25
After a few days of planning and scheming, I've decided that I'll be adding one of these when released. What an incredible solution it offers!

The only logistical issue I can find is that, if you wanted to put the box on the stage, you would have to run the control room monitor feed separately up from the stage. Or else have a separate DAC running from your computer via USB.... Thoughts?
Old 24th March 2014
  #26
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya View Post
After a few days of planning and scheming, I've decided that I'll be adding one of these when released. What an incredible solution it offers!

The only logistical issue I can find is that, if you wanted to put the box on the stage, you would have to run the control room monitor feed separately up from the stage. Or else have a separate DAC running from your computer via USB.... Thoughts?
Many options will solve your problem, here are two simple solutions

You can use Merging secondary audio device
or, add a dell 2808 switch to your rack and use another ravennadevice for listening.

The latter allows you to run a laptop as a 64ch backup using nothing but a cat6/cat5e cable
Old 24th March 2014
  #27
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matyas's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by klaukholm View Post
You can use Merging secondary audio device
The secondary audio device can be anything connected over ASIO, correct?
Old 24th March 2014
  #28
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by matyas View Post
The secondary audio device can be anything connected over ASIO, correct?
Secondary Audio Device Host:
The Audio Bridge allows users to connect to an existing Audio
Device in the system, being either the built-in sound card or an external ASIO-type device, as
a Secondary Audio Device for Pyramix, in addition to the standard MassCore or ASIO
“Primary” card.
This is typically a solution for monitoring locally on a secondary audio device the signal
coming from a primary MassCore or ASIO based Horus unit, typically deployed remotely as a
stage box through RAVENNA.
As this Secondary Audio Device Hosting Mode is bidirectional it also provides the talkback
support to talk locally to a person near the remote primary unit.
The secondary audio device should not be used to record from as it includes a constant SRC
to maintain perfect sync with the main unit even without any external hardware based sync
being required. Recording should only be performed from signal coming from the primary
unit. The secondary unit should only be used for monitoring and talkback.
Old 24th March 2014
  #29
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It hasn't been plain sailing for me with this secondary audio device method. Hence I have ordered a cardless Hapi chassis to be my secondary device on the network talking to Horus on the stage. This should solve all my issues and be an excellent low latency monitoring box.
Old 24th March 2014
  #30
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
It hasn't been plain sailing for me with this secondary audio device method. Hence I have ordered a cardless Hapi chassis to be my secondary device on the network talking to Horus on the stage. This should solve all my issues and be an excellent low latency monitoring box.
This is by far the best way to go.
It is also a breeze to have 16 channel Hapi for hanging mics on one cat,
another Hapi or Horus on stage and one Hapi for monitoring/tbk
I just ordered two small rackmount dell 2808 for this purpose
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