The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Tags: , ,

HAPI, Son of Horus Audio Interfaces
Old 25th February 2015
  #211
Gear Addict
 
xcskier's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEMAS View Post
My figures were wrong. Adam has already corrected me. See above - 4.2ms 44.1 / 32 buffer.

I personally have started to look into a different approach using one DAW for extreme low latency plugin performances and a second DAW for multi-tracking.
No Problem.
My comment was directed more at the Motu latency figure. It may be a forthcoming number ... however you have to understand my skepticism when dealing with consumer marketed devices.

For example: -110 dB THD+N across the board (in/out mic/line) begins to be curious how they tailored the numbers to fit. That is to say, does the Marketing department decide the number, followed by measurements in specific bandwidths at levels below dBFS etc. ... That's not to say whether this is a worthwhile piece of gear or not, nevertheless, personally we'll steer out of that market. Also talking to those much more knowledgeable than myself on the subject of PCs, TB is another periphery not worth our venture.

Your idea of a two DAW system is interesting. We planned something similar with Horus Ravenna to one PC, and MADI to a second for cue mixing in Totalmix (and redundant backup). However since Merging's release of the Direct Out cards for zero latency foldback (4Q of 2013?), moving forward the plan may be analogue cue mixes. (As far as DSD, that was already necessary). It certainly makes rationalizing the purchase of a Hapi in conjunction with Horus more substantiated.
Old 25th February 2015
  #212
Agreed. And the quality of the conversion is definitely not in the same league as my Lavry Blues and Blacks.
Old 14th April 2015
  #213
Gear Nut
 

Looking into the Merging and Ravenna system. It seems that wdm drivers are available for Ravenna:
Downloads

Can theese drivers co-exist with the Merging ASIO drivers?
Old 14th April 2015
  #214
Lives for gear
 
Friedemann's Avatar
 

Careful, the Ravenna WDM driver does not support all types of NICs. You need to have that: Gigabit Ethernet controller: Intel 82574L. My Laptop, where I wanted to use WDM, does not have it.
Old 14th April 2015
  #215
Gear Nut
 

Thanks,
Coming from RME-drivers, Ravenna/Hapi/Horus does seem a bit less mature in routing and overall driver convenience.
Old 8th May 2015
  #216
Lives for gear
 
NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljudatervinning View Post
Thanks,
Coming from RME-drivers, Ravenna/Hapi/Horus does seem a bit less mature in routing and overall driver convenience.
Depends what you are trying to do. Ravenna routing and maturity is good enough to be the backbone for a large broadcast installation. Using GPS clocking it can also connect facilities at very large distances. As for routing and driver convenience, I have four Hapi, two Horus, two Pyramix DAWs and a Protools DAW all simultaneously connected to the same network. Clocking is as simple and accurate as it gets.
Old 9th May 2015
  #217
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkAudio View Post
Depends what you are trying to do. Ravenna routing and maturity is good enough to be the backbone for a large broadcast installation. Using GPS clocking it can also connect facilities at very large distances. As for routing and driver convenience, I have four Hapi, two Horus, two Pyramix DAWs and a Protools DAW all simultaneously connected to the same network. Clocking is as simple and accurate as it gets.
Yes, that part really is good. What I will miss is the excellent TotalMix, where I can both route and mix any number of channels, not just in segments of 8, and I can do several sub-mixes to different outputs virtually latency free without effecting the recorded files.

I have, however, ordered a Hapi.
Old 9th May 2015
  #218
Lives for gear
 
NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljudatervinning View Post
Yes, that part really is good. What I will miss is the excellent TotalMix, where I can both route and mix any number of channels, not just in segments of 8, and I can do several sub-mixes to different outputs virtually latency free without effecting the recorded files.

I have, however, ordered a Hapi.
The routing is not a limitation of Ravenna. Should you require one to one routing the Digigram PCIE card can do that for you. Low latency mixing is easily achieved by running Pyramix Masscore.

Zero latency mixing is easily done with a simple analogue mixer feeding off the micpres secondary analogue output.
Old 9th May 2015
  #219
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkAudio View Post
The routing is not a limitation of Ravenna. Should you require one to one routing the Digigram PCIE card can do that for you. Low latency mixing is easily achieved by running Pyramix Masscore.

Zero latency mixing is easily done with a simple analogue mixer feeding off the micpres secondary analogue output.
Also, individual channel routing is coming in one of the near future...It has been seen in alpha test versions...
All the best,
Mark
Old 9th May 2015
  #220
Lives for gear
 
Friedemann's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkAudio View Post
The routing is not a limitation of Ravenna. Should you require one to one routing the Digigram PCIE card can do that for you.
...at a ridiculous price point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdonahue View Post
Also, individual channel routing is coming in one of the near future...It has been seen in alpha test versions...
All the best,
Mark
You made my day!
Old 12th May 2015
  #221
Gear Maniac
 
paulo m's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkAudio View Post
Depends what you are trying to do. Ravenna routing and maturity is good enough to be the backbone for a large broadcast installation. Using GPS clocking it can also connect facilities at very large distances. As for routing and driver convenience, I have four Hapi, two Horus, two Pyramix DAWs and a Protools DAW all simultaneously connected to the same network. Clocking is as simple and accurate as it gets.
So, what type of workflow to you use between the 3 DAW´s using the Ravenna protocol? Are you sharing converters I/O? Routing audio in real time between DAW´s? Or are you using Ravenna just as a way to connect a DAW to an external converter by simply using an ethernet cable?

Regarding broadcast instalations, I see the potential use for live/remote or studio interconnect at production level. Apart from that, going from post to playout is more and more a tapeless format, hence a file based, non real time transfer of assets.
Old 12th May 2015
  #222
Lives for gear
 
NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo m View Post
So, what type of workflow to you use between the 3 DAW´s using the Ravenna protocol? Are you sharing converters I/O? Routing audio in real time between DAW´s? Or are you using Ravenna just as a way to connect a DAW to an external converter by simply using an ethernet cable?

Regarding broadcast instalations, I see the potential use for live/remote or studio interconnect at production level.
We do all of the above. As for broadcast, we are talking advanced routing and one broadcaster is seriously looking at Ravenna to interconnect their offices in four cities hundreds of kilometers apart.
Old 12th May 2015
  #223
Gear Maniac
 
paulo m's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkAudio View Post
We do all of the above. As for broadcast, we are talking advanced routing and one broadcaster is seriously looking at Ravenna to interconnect their offices in four cities hundreds of kilometers apart.
That´s interesting. Will they use peer to peer conections or will they use the network provided by the local ISP´s?
Old 12th May 2015
  #224
Lives for gear
 
NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo m View Post
That´s interesting. Will they use peer to peer conections or will they use the network provided by the local ISP´s?
They already have their own fiber connecting those locations.
Using a GSM clock driving a network grandmaster clock in each location they can have a fully functional audio network. Once distances get over a critical size, you cannot sync the network with a single grandmaster any longer.

Very interesting IMO and also where Ravenna stands out.

Last edited by NetworkAudio; 13th May 2015 at 12:09 PM..
Old 12th May 2015
  #225
Gear Maniac
 
paulo m's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkAudio View Post
They already have their own fiber connecting those locations.
Using a GSM clock driving a network grandmaster clock in each location they can have a fully functional audio network. Once distances get over a critical size, you cannot sync the network with a single grandmaster any longer.

Very interesting IMO and also where Ravenna stands out as above and beyond.
What do you think diferentiates Ravenna from other competing network protocols that also support AES67, in the context you are describing?
Old 13th May 2015
  #226
Lives for gear
 
NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo m View Post
What do you think diferentiates Ravenna from other competing network protocols that also support AES67, in the context you are describing?
The findings of said broadcaster is thus far that it it not techically possible with the protocols and "platforms" I believe you are referring to.
Old 13th May 2015
  #227
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkAudio View Post
The findings of said broadcaster is thus far that it it not techically possible with the protocols and "platforms" I believe you are referring to.
Then for the avoidance of doubt you are not referring to Dante, as we have not had a support enquiry (to Audinate Support) from any broadcaster whose issues we couldnt resolve. And several are sucessfully deployed with our assitance already using Dante.
Old 13th May 2015
  #228
Lives for gear
 
NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audinate Tech EU View Post
Then for the avoidance of doubt you are not referring to Dante, as we have not had a support enquiry (to Audinate Support) from any broadcaster whose issues we couldnt resolve. And several are sucessfully deployed with our assitance already using Dante.
AFAIK the task group is not yet done with their research.

Can you confirm that Dante can clock to GPS in four different locations sperarated by long distances and have large trackounts going between said locations?

If I understood correctly, the question was asked at a conference where pretty much all but Dante was represented on the panel.
Old 13th May 2015
  #229
Gear Maniac
 
paulo m's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkAudio View Post
The findings of said broadcaster is thus far that it it not techically possible with the protocols and "platforms" I believe you are referring to.
By competing network protocols, I´m refering to Dante, AVB, Livewire, Ethersound etc. So, my question was, what do you think that may diferentiate Ravenna use in the context you described, about a given broadcast interconnecting its diferent locations for networked real time audio transfers?
Old 13th May 2015
  #230
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkAudio View Post
AFAIK the task group is not yet done with their research.

Can you confirm that Dante can clock to GPS in four different locations sperarated by long distances and have large trackounts going between said locations?

If I understood correctly, the question was asked at a conference where pretty much all but Dante was represented on the panel.
You can clock a Dante device to a "house clock" under the circumstances where the OEM manufacturer has a "wordclock in" socket.

Naturally it would be essential (unsurprisingly) that the house clock is synchronous accross that clock domain. How that house clock is produced falls outside of the scope of anything we would control. Similarly generating any clock from say GPS would be the preserve of the manufacturer of said GPS clock device to be clear.

With the advent of AES67 then this will likely converge in reality in any case... Audinate are very close to a firmware release that incorporates AES67 and "classic" Dante. This will be released to our OEM customers, and it will be up to them to decide when they wish to incorporate that into the feature-set of their products.
Old 13th May 2015
  #231
Lives for gear
 
NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audinate Tech EU View Post
You can clock a Dante device to a "house clock" under the circumstances where the OEM manufacturer has a "wordclock in" socket.

Naturally it would be essential (unsurprisingly) that the house clock is synchronous accross that clock domain. How that house clock is produced falls outside of the scope of anything we would control. Similarly generating any clock from say GPS would be the preserve of the manufacturer of said GPS clock device to be clear.

With the advent of AES67 then this will likely converge in reality in any case... Audinate are very close to a firmware release that incorporates AES67 and "classic" Dante. This will be released to our OEM customers, and it will be up to them to decide when they wish to incorporate that into the feature-set of their products.
I was specifically mentioning clocking multiple locations very far apart with GPS clocks syncing each location individually and maintaining audio streams between said locations. Multiple master (grandmaster) clocks. Are you saying you can do this right now?
Old 13th May 2015
  #232
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkAudio View Post
I was specifically mentioning clocking multiple locations very far apart with GPS clocks syncing each location individually and maintaining audio streams between said locations. Multiple master (grandmaster) clocks. Are you saying you can do this right now?
1588 is a very extensible, and very flexible standard.

Presenting experiences from implementations as solid facts about such a standard is misleading.

Presenting workarounds as necessary is also misleading.

I would suggest to anyone interested that they read the IEEE 1588 standard for themselves and decide whether the "need" for a compromise is derived from the standard, or is an engineering solution answer to a specific problem.

We can then have an informed discussion.
Old 1st June 2015
  #233
Here for the gear
 

The ADA8 card offers some interesting possibilities, but after using the direct outs of the AD8DP, they are a must have because they allow for truly zero latency monitoring in the analog domain which is great for those of us with nice analog monitoring systems...

I understand that a lot of the utility of the HAPI and HORUS or other networked gear goes underutilized when used primarily as only a converter, but these units are the best option for a great sounding DSD system. The ADA8 (premium) cards (assuming they are eventually released) will allow a studio scenario to get access to this awesome DSD functionality, but what I'd really like to see is something like an ADA8DP.

This would be 8 premium ins and outs with 8 direct outs on 3 DB-25's. I checked the dimensions, and 3 DB-25's would definitely fit within the area available. You would have to position one DB-25 on the bottom of the card and two on the top, or vise versa, but it could certainly be done with some good design.
Old 2nd June 2015
  #234
I got a demo unit with the ADA8 card. I did a demo recording for a rock/metal garage band and I am greatly amazed with the quality of the preamps and the conversion. I used to have an Avid HD I/O, and compared to it, the HAPI sounds really good, I believe even better. The solid feel you got from the unit is by far better than the plastic sense you got from many of the products made in China. Also I like to have a 1U interface able to handle 16 mic preamps along the AES and ADAT I/O, and not dealing with USB or Firewire issues.

The Ravenna protocol worked as expected, and demands some reading to avoid questions, especially related to routing. Once you setup your network correctly (I used a class C IP range on the second NIC of the Z800 -10.10.10.x/24) you can use the unit, browse to it and also use the internet if needed at the same tie and without dropping audio packets, at least @ 44.1/48 which was the sample rate I was using.

Using the unit with pro Tools HD 10/11 with Core Audio in Mountain Lion in a HP Z800 without a single issue. I also liked a lot the feature of having the mic preamps inside Pro Tools, that's great.

I will test this week on the Windows 7 partition, advantages of having a powerful Hackintosh/Custom Mac

Also, I still think Windows 7 Pro 64 is by far better than for Pro Audio and Pro Video stuff, IMHO.

Last edited by felipousis; 3rd June 2015 at 03:52 PM..
Old 2nd June 2015
  #235
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidify View Post
but what I'd really like to see is something like an ADA8DP.
ADA8 achieved a better performace than the combination of DA8P and AD8DP in this DA-AD conversion transparency test.

Last edited by didier.brest; 5th June 2015 at 12:43 PM..
Old 5th June 2015
  #236
Here for the gear
 

I guess this means there is a version with directs? Hopefully a DSD version comes next.

Actually, I don't see anything about ADA8D, only ADA8... so not sure if I missed something, but I don't think this exists yet.

Last edited by liquidify; 5th June 2015 at 06:44 AM.. Reason: Incorrect
Old 5th June 2015
  #237
Lives for gear
 
NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidify View Post
I guess this means there is a version with directs? Hopefully a DSD version comes next.

Actually, I don't see anything about ADA8D, only ADA8... so not sure if I missed something, but I don't think this exists yet.
There is no direct analogue output on the ADA8. Only the AD8 and AD8 premium cards have the direct output
Old 5th June 2015
  #238
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidify View Post
I guess this means there is a version with directs? Hopefully a DSD version comes next.

Actually, I don't see anything about ADA8D, only ADA8... so not sure if I missed something, but I don't think this exists yet.
My mistake ! ADA8, not ADA8D, was mentionned in the list of results. I have corrected my previous post.
Old 6th June 2015
  #239
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkAudio View Post
There is no direct analogue output on the ADA8. Only the AD8 and AD8 premium cards have the direct output
Just to be clear, it is the AD8D and the AD8DP that have the directs...

Specifics of model numbers are important here. The D indicates that they have directs, which is why I am wanting to see something like

ADA8DP

ADA- indicates both analog to digital and digital to analog converters
D - indicates direct outs
8 - indicates number of channels
P - indicates premium which means DSD and theoretically higher quality components.

This would mean 8 inputs with preamps that have direct outs, as well as 8 outputs all capable of running at DSD 256, and on one card.
Old 6th June 2015
  #240
Lives for gear
 
NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidify View Post
Just to be clear, it is the AD8D and the AD8DP that have the directs...

Specifics of model numbers are important here. The D indicates that they have directs
You are correct about the D designation, but it is not particularly important these days as Merging no longer offers a version of the the ADA8 without direct outs. So pardon my shorthand leaving out the D at the end.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump