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HAPI, Son of Horus Audio Interfaces
Old 30th August 2014
  #151
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KIDBILL's Avatar
 

I have some questions please,
It's not clear to me on the merging website if the dsd/dxd modules also do pcm?
And if it's the case, if anyone a/b'ed the two in order to know if pcm sounds better with the dsd module. (Talking both ad and da)
As well annoucement of a new card which allow 8 ad and 8 da on the same card has been made, anyone would know when it will be available?
Thank you!
Old 31st August 2014
  #152
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIDBILL View Post
I have some questions please,
It's not clear to me on the merging website if the dsd/dxd modules also do pcm?
And if it's the case, if anyone a/b'ed the two in order to know if pcm sounds better with the dsd module. (Talking both ad and da)
As well annoucement of a new card which allow 8 ad and 8 da on the same card has been made, anyone would know when it will be available?
Thank you!
The Premium cards to both DSD and PCM (DXD is in fact PCM)and they measure better. Quoting B.G. here:
Merging Technologies • View topic - Horus and DMI-8

"Premium card measurement benchmarks are 2 dB better in [email protected] for mic inputs, 4 dB for the line inputs, and 5 dB better in line input [email protected] kHz"
Old 31st August 2014
  #153
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Thank you!
Old 1st September 2014
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emonteirobr View Post
Dear Cabral de Melo, Dear Klaukholm,

Since May 2014, I'm using Horus with Pyramix 9, 24 AD/ 1 DA in Brazil.
Here in Rio de Janeiro and many other regions, when 30ºC are reached we are only beginning to feel hot. This is not good for any kind of electronic equipment.
That's why I always care to take a very silent little USB fan (w/ its own PS, of course) with me just in case. And I must say, I have to use it more frequently than not, given the fact that 98% of my recording work is on location.
Under such conditions the Horus fan can get really loud, and this is the reason for me not to position it behind the main (omni) pickup, but always laterally, behind the scene.
The use of longer cables is far less harmful to the recording IMHO than the fan noise.
Anyway, in a live recording situation, you could never position it behind the main pickup.
That's my concern with Hapi in those situations. Would it stand the sometimes very difficult situations we have to cope with here in Brazil in location work?
Otherwise it looks very attractive. In a control room, it seems to be an unbeatable interface.

I second Klaukholm on the suggestion that you keep in contact with Visom Equipamentos, the Brazilian dealer to Merging. They are extremely helpful. Call Paulo Campos, the sales representative, and I'm sure he will do everything possible in order for you to get all the information you need. I can only say good things about them.

Feel free to PM me too, in case I can help you in Portuguese.

All the best

Edu
Obrigado, Eduardo Monteiro! Enviarei uma mensagem privada.
Old 24th October 2014
  #155
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I have a Hapi on loan from mr Network Audio himself and used it this wednesday on a fairly standard opera recording. The Horus was in the orchestra pit and handled all signals; cat5e cable running to the control room side by side with power. A Dell 2808 switch ties together the Horus with a Hapi and two MacBooks for redundant recording, plus an Artist Mix to handle the mixing on one of the computers.
After some initial trouble, solved by upgrading the CoreAudio Ravenna driver, the show went off great. I've since updated to Horus firmware and now mic pre control works very well from within Pro Tools as well.

The Hapi is very nice in the control room, albeit a bit oversized for yesterdays needs which were just two line outputs to monitors and headphone D/A. I'm not sure that I sent signals to the Hapi in the most efficient manner; I made sends from the main bus in Pro Tools to the different outputs.
The control wheel seems alright to use for level control, but to switch between HP and line outputs control takes too long. It should be possible to do without navigating a (simple, but still) menu.
Old 24th October 2014
  #156
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I have a Hapi on loan from mr Network Audio himself and used it this wednesday on a fairly standard opera recording. The Horus was in the orchestra pit and handled all signals; cat5e cable running to the control room side by side with power. A Dell 2808 switch ties together the Horus with a Hapi and two MacBooks for redundant recording, plus an Artist Mix to handle the mixing on one of the computers.
After some initial trouble, solved by upgrading the CoreAudio Ravenna driver, the show went off great. I've since updated to Horus firmware and now mic pre control works very well from within Pro Tools as well.

The Hapi is very nice in the control room, albeit a bit oversized for yesterdays needs which were just two line outputs to monitors and headphone D/A. I'm not sure that I sent signals to the Hapi in the most efficient manner; I made sends from the main bus in Pro Tools to the different outputs.
The control wheel seems alright to use for level control, but to switch between HP and line outputs control takes too long. It should be possible to do without navigating a (simple, but still) menu.
Old 24th October 2014
  #157
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Any initial thoughts on the soundquality/character of the DA card as well as the Heapdhone amp with it's DA?
Old 25th October 2014
  #158
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JonesH's Avatar
Not really. Certainly good enough, but I need to test them in a more controlled environment, which I will do.
Old 30th October 2014
  #159
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I've read all 158 posts on this thread (and done quite a bit of outside research too) yet I'm still confused.

It seems that Hapi requires some software to run on the computer it will talk to. Presumably a driver for... Ravenna and/or AES67 over Ethernet? Maybe some stand-alone Hapi control software? IDK, and I can't seem to find out exactly what it takes to communicate with Hapi.

It seems that Merging is refusing to support Win8.x even though it's the OS that's been out for a couple of years, and is even more stable and efficient that the OS it replaced. So the Ravenna driver and the control software (if any) require a down level OS.

What about Pyramix? Same problem? Does it too require win7?

Can I use other DAWs with Hapi? Do other DAWs have to talk to Hapi over Revenna? Are there any other DAWs that support Revenna? or Hapi?

------------------------------------------------------------------

I do almost exclusively location work, but I'm usually a one man crew. I'm talking 8 mics maximum. No Horus stage box, no distributed network of Hapis up on the catwalks and under the chorus risers, no Hapi running the control room under the stage. Instead, I'm thinking a single Hapi with an AD8D card. Eight mic ins, Ravenna out to a laptop DAW machine. Music captured to files on the DAW computer, and bounced to a backup somehow.

The location laptop does mostly capture. Then I bring the kit back to the office and do editing with the DAW on my desktop computer. Bigger nicer screen, nicer keyboard, better audio monitors, etc. The desktop computer can not be regressed to Win7.x. It has to remain at least at Win8.1 due to other software that needs to be on that machine.

So... can I do this with Hapi? Do I need to restrict Hapi to the location kit and force a Win7 location laptop? Does this mean I can't use Pyramix because of the Win8.1 desktop? If not Pyramix, anyone have an alternative DAW to use with Hapi on location, but will also play on a modern desktop?

Hey! I said I was confused.
Old 30th October 2014
  #160
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I can be wrong, but quite sure:

A standard native Pyramix setup will run on a W8 machine.
The Horus, Hapi present themselves with standard ASIO drivers, which should also run on W8

It is my understanding Masscore vesions will NOT run on Win8.
You could check on the Pyramix forum ?
Old 30th October 2014
  #161
Gear Addict
 

According to Independence Audio, Horus and Hapi don't have W8 drivers and Merging decided that since W8 is a "transitional OS" therefore they will not provide a driver for W8. By the way all OS are developed, you can say the same to all of them, I guess. The reason they gave made no sense to me. The ASIO drivers they have don't run on W7, I know because I tried it. Likewise, I will never revert any of my computers back to W7 so I can run Horus or Hapi. It is not going to happen for me.


Best regards,

Da-Hong
Old 30th October 2014
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo View Post
The ASIO drivers they have don't run on W7, I know because I tried it.
Works fine on W7. Did you mean W8?
Old 30th October 2014
  #163
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Thanks for the correction. It does not work on W8, that is.
Old 31st October 2014
  #164
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You'll install a coreaudio or asio driver that enables Ravenna connections into and out from your daw of choice. Pro tools, reaper, sequoia, cubase...
You get a routing application to connect the Hapi to your asio driver and a discovery application that lets you open the control interface for the Hapi in your browser.
Old 31st October 2014
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesH View Post
You get a routing application to connect the Hapi to your asio driver and a discovery application that lets you open the control interface for the Hapi in your browser.

Actually, you don't need to install discovery application. All you need to do is to type the interface IP address which you can set manually on the machine into your internet browser and open the "webpage" of Horus or Hapi. Of course, the Ethernet cable has to be connected between the browser and the interface.
Old 1st November 2014
  #166
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JonesH's Avatar
Of course, that's right. It's simply for convenience.
Old 1st November 2014
  #167
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Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Hapi with Mac

I'm still trying to understand the requirements for running a Hapi. Merging won't support Win8.x, and the deadline just passed for selling Win7 (even Merging can't sell Win7 as a VAR anymore apparently) making it problematic to find an acceptable Win7 computer. It also looks as if there are a number of hardware gotchas with the Merging software running on Windows computers anyway.

What about OSX? Any problems getting a Hapi to play nice with a current version Macbook? Any OS version limitations (Yosemite support yet?) on the Mac side? Hardware limitations? Can I control the micpres on the Hapi using Pyramix on, say, a Macbook Air? Will I actually be able to use Pyramix on a screen that small (13")?

Oh, wait. It looks like none of the Macbooks, Air or Pro, have physical Ethernet connectors. Will Pyramix be able to talk to (and control) the Hapi over a Thunderbird to Ethernet adapter?
Old 1st November 2014
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkAudio View Post
Any initial thoughts on the soundquality/character of the DA card as well as the Heapdhone amp with it's DA?
How is the headphone DA? Will it drive a line-level output? (Thinking quick-and-dirty control room monitoring.)
Old 1st November 2014
  #169
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Hi Bruce,

I don't own a Hapi yet but have had the Horus for a while.

The hardware 'gotchas' really only apply to Pyramix MassCore version where the system isolates processor cores from the OS to use directly for DSP. It's extremely powerful but more fussy with motherboard / chip compatibility (there's a list on their website).

PMX Native version is quite flexible about what it runs on. Many use it on Macs running Bootcamp (I think - the forum has details).

I am currently able to connect to Horus using a 2009 MacBook Pro running Mavericks (earlier OS didn't work for me) and Merging's CoreAudio driver. I was able to connect / configure Horus IO to ProTools 10 without issue. There are others who are able to control the Horus Mic pres from within ProTools but I haven't ventured there yet. Its easy enough to control preamps from the Horus browser interface. The browser GUI is quite good for the preamp page (large with everything in a logical place).

I use a 15" screen regularly on the road. It's not ideal for larger sessions but works fine.

No experience with Ethernet adapters here.

-Silas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
I'm still trying to understand the requirements for running a Hapi. Merging won't support Win8.x, and the deadline just passed for selling Win7 (even Merging can't sell Win7 as a VAR anymore apparently) making it problematic to find an acceptable Win7 computer. It also looks as if there are a number of hardware gotchas with the Merging software running on Windows computers anyway.

What about OSX? Any problems getting a Hapi to play nice with a current version Macbook? Any OS version limitations (Yosemite support yet?) on the Mac side? Hardware limitations? Can I control the micpres on the Hapi using Pyramix on, say, a Macbook Air? Will I actually be able to use Pyramix on a screen that small (13")?

Oh, wait. It looks like none of the Macbooks, Air or Pro, have physical Ethernet connectors. Will Pyramix be able to talk to (and control) the Hapi over a Thunderbird to Ethernet adapter?
Old 1st November 2014
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
I've read all 158 posts on this thread (and done quite a bit of outside research too) yet I'm still confused.

It seems that Hapi requires some software to run on the computer it will talk to. Presumably a driver for... Ravenna and/or AES67 over Ethernet? Maybe some stand-alone Hapi control software? IDK, and I can't seem to find out exactly what it takes to communicate with Hapi.
You'd need to install the MT Discovery (finds Ravenna devices on the LAN) and Ravenna Easyconnect (allows for routing) software. Also, the Merging Coreaudio or ASIO driver if you're using the Native version of the software or a 3rd party DAW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
Can I use other DAWs with Hapi? Do other DAWs have to talk to Hapi over Revenna? Are there any other DAWs that support Revenna? or Hapi?
Yes. Any DAW that can access the ASIO or Coreaudio driver should work. You can then use any internet browser to control the HAPI settings and preamps. I do this currently with ProTools 10.
Alternately you could get a MADI card and use the HAPI simply as a MADI-out stage box. But then you wouldn't have browser control and would have to use the front panel or another device connected to HAPI via Ethernet.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
I do almost exclusively location work, but I'm usually a one man crew. I'm talking 8 mics maximum. No Horus stage box, no distributed network of Hapis up on the catwalks and under the chorus risers, no Hapi running the control room under the stage. Instead, I'm thinking a single Hapi with an AD8D card. Eight mic ins, Ravenna out to a laptop DAW machine. Music captured to files on the DAW computer, and bounced to a backup somehow.
You could incorporate the recommended Dell Switch (1/2 rackspace) and then be able to use more than one computer for capture. Both would be on the Ravenna network so could control HAPI. At around $200. they are the most cost effective splitter I've found...

-Silas
Old 2nd November 2014
  #171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
Can I control the micpres on the Hapi using Pyramix on, say, a Macbook Air? Will I actually be able to use Pyramix on a screen that small (13")?
Oh, wait. It looks like none of the Macbooks, Air or Pro, have physical Ethernet connectors. Will Pyramix be able to talk to (and control) the Hapi over a Thunderbird to Ethernet adapter?
I just spent the last 10 days in Berlin recording 16 tracks of 96k to a $300 Asus i3 minibook with 4 gigs of RAM and a $29 USB3 to Ethernet adapter (Primary recorder was a Lenovo W540 using the built in ethernet).
In this case I ran the entire session on a single Hapi with 2 input cards, using a second piece of CAT6 carrying AES for surround control room monitoring and the talkback return. The entire kit and my clothes fit in two 70 pound checked bags and a carry-on. Borrowed speakers in Berlin and that was it.
Additionally, I know for a fact that the folks at the factory use a Macbook Air and a Thunderbolt to Ethernet adapter to test the Ravenna ASIO driver. The Dell 2808 switch can be had for a bit over $100.
All the best,
-mark
Old 2nd November 2014
  #172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
You could incorporate the recommended Dell Switch (1/2 rackspace) and then be able to use more than one computer for capture. Both would be on the Ravenna network so could control HAPI. At around $200. they are the most cost effective splitter I've found...

-Silas
Additionally you have access to the outputs of the DAW on the ravenna network. This is great for printing the mix on a second machine. Just route the mix output to a Ravenna out and it is available on the network.
At this point I can't imagine going back to snakes and splitters.
All the best,
-mark
Old 2nd November 2014
  #173
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Larry Elliott's Avatar
Thanks Mark for the details of your project.
Old 2nd November 2014
  #174
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Don
I have no problem with running Pyramix on a MBP - just need to create a boot camp partition and install Win 7

Larry
Old 3rd November 2014
  #175
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xcskier's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
You'd need to install the MT Discovery (finds Ravenna devices on the LAN) and Ravenna Easyconnect (allows for routing) software. Also, the Merging Coreaudio or ASIO driver if you're using the Native version of the software or a 3rd party DAW. ....
There were also Bonjour Network protocols that loaded at some stage when setting up the Horus (would be loaded with the other drivers). Is this required for PC networks (or is it to include apple communication protocol) ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
....You could incorporate the recommended Dell Switch (1/2 rackspace) and then be able to use more than one computer for capture. Both would be on the Ravenna network so could control HAPI.
-Silas
We are thinking of adding a Hapi to the Horus. Just wondering if you found a Dell switch approved by Merging that was 19". I don't want to bother with extra rack shelves...
Old 3rd November 2014
  #176
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcskier View Post
There were also Bonjour Network protocols that loaded at some stage when setting up the Horus (would be loaded with the other drivers). Is this required for PC networks (or is it to include apple communication protocol) ?
We are thinking of adding a Hapi to the Horus. Just wondering if you found a Dell switch approved by Merging that was 19". I don't want to bother with extra rack shelves...
Bonjour is required for the Ravenna stuff to operate correctly.
WRT the switch, if you buy the 2808 or 2816 from Dell the rack ears are included....
All the best,
-mark
Old 4th November 2014
  #177
Old 6th November 2014
  #178
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Hi Don!

No - I'm still using a MassCore system for the main recorder and PMX Native for the backup. I have the PT license here for translation for mastering projects. Since I had recently updated the OS I thought I'd try connecting to Horus and it works.

I use the MBP for so many other things and I already own a PC laptop so I haven't tried adding Bootcamp / PMX.

I hope all is well,
Silas
Old 10th December 2014
  #179
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JonesH's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by claying View Post
I have a Horus here but I found it notoriously complicated to set up and still have some reliability issues under my ASIO and non-Pyramix config. And no DXD on Macbook Pro. You simply can't use it as straight forward as a USB / FW interface, or a standalone recorder.
Hi,
What troubles have you had? I have a Horus (and had a Hapi on test), I haven't found it very complicated to set up once I learned to remember where the sample rate setting was
I think it's about as straight forward to use as my last rig which consisted of ULN-8s where I'd need to route each input to my DAW over FireWire –*with the Horus I connect to inputs by blocks of 8.

However, I think there are some conveniency issues when routing outputs. There's no way for an output to "choose" a signal present on the Ravenna network; rather I need to connect an output from my DAW to the output on the Horus. When I need to send my main mix to both D/A and phones on the control room Hapi, at the same time as I send a feed to the video guys or something like that, I need to set up separate sends for each output from a mix bus in Pro Tools and some DAWs can't even do that.

That, plus the lack of Ravenna driver/hardware labeling is a bit of an issue.
Old 10th December 2014
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesH View Post
... I haven't found it very complicated to set up once I learned to remember where the sample rate setting was
I am surprised one cannot set the sample rate from the DAW and have it change on Horus/Hapi via the ASIO driver. I maybe missing something.
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