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Aligning audio with live video?
Old 24th November 2013
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masaaki View Post
https://vimeo.com/80030278

This is what I had last week with Panasonic GH3 14-45mm zoom.
Mics were Senn MKH8020 A/B going into DAV BG2-UFX, and the video was 50Mbps, MOV, 30 fps progressive.

Motion is slightly 'clunky', and I guess because 30p. Next time, I have to try with 60p.
What shutter speed?

Fran
Old 24th November 2013
  #62
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GZsound's Avatar
I have been mixing some of the recording I did a week ago on my Cymatic LR16.

I thought I would post a bit of a solo performer who filled in between the two main groups.
Attached Files

Cajun Mandolin.mp3 (2.25 MB, 97 views)

Old 24th November 2013
  #63
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Have to ask what the crowd thought of that one. Obviously not traditional bluegrass.
Old 25th November 2013
  #64
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GZsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post
Have to ask what the crowd thought of that one. Obviously not traditional bluegrass.
They love the guy. He has been playing with "bluegrass" bands for many years around here and also does swing plus he leads a local mandolin orchestra. At the last bluegrass festival I ran sound for, he showed up with a classical acoustic bassist and they just killed it.

He is the only local solo performer I know that can do an hour set and bring down the house.
Old 25th November 2013
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saciestudio View Post
Had some beers... It would be illegal for me to drive, but I'll try to answer:

I usually export a first bounce with a rough mix or even a "faders at unity" without plugins which may (or may not) sound better than the camera audio. It is an option for me to cut picture to if I want. I usually prefer it to camera audio.
I use the waveforms to sync, if I need to export individual songs to do a more complex mix (not always needed), I export the fully mixed bounce, be it of the full lenght or just one song, and sync with the first or last attack, or any part of the content which is best to check sync. It usually turns out perfect, sometimes I do nudge a take or two some frames if something seems odd.
Thanks for answering. I am getting trouble in waveforms sync. Any key points for sync waveform.
Old 25th November 2013
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Thanks for answering. I am getting trouble in waveforms sync. Any key points for sync waveform.
Well, one important thing is to have levels set on cameras because if the auto-gain is on, the audio (and thus the waveform) gets compressed and harder to 'see'. Uncompressed is always best so you can really see the peaks and the differences between them. But it's usually quite easy to do by eye (for me, at least - some friends say I can "read the Matrix" when they see me working LOL).

A step-by-step of a possible way:

Get the files of the 3 cameras (for example) into the project, each camera to a channel (camera 1 goes to video 1, audio 1 , camera 2 video 2 audio 2 etc) and the independent audio channel to the last audio channel (or you may do it reverse, keep audio1-2 for your mix and put the videos at 3, 4, 5, doesn't really matter)

Choose a starting point. Let's say you started shooting just before the DJ stopped the music for the concert to start, or just before an announcer, something must be the common starting point where you'll have the audio and the cameras running together. Trim all your clips to that moment and roughly line them up. Now, if you have the waveforms show up (usually you will need to expand the audio view or click a checkbox on a preference menu depending on the software used), you will probably be able to see similarities (spoken word is great for rough sync and drum hits, song breaks, stuff like that for more precise frame nudging). Line up the similarities so that the similar peaks show up at the same frame. Doing this way I rarely need to sync more than once per file (which usually go up to 12 min or 29:59 depending on the camera). Never seen a drift problem with DSLRs, but with a Gopro I had to recheck sync every 5 minutes or so and splice the clips because it would drift a lot.
Old 25th November 2013
  #67
Gear Guru
 

I just did college demos for two students, one classical violin and one jazz piano. Both demos involved videos. We shot the video 'wild' with a Zoom Q3HD, imported it into Pro Tools and nudged. I used the camera mic audio as the reference rather than any visual cue.

The sync held up for the duration of each piece with no problems. I did notice that a song 3 or 4 takes later did need to be "re-nudged" so there is a limit, but I was happy and the students were happy.
Old 26th November 2013
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
... need to be "re-nudged" so there is a limit....
Once you hit the three or four minute point, you're on the borders of nudgeland, that's what I've found...

"Nudgability" is the maybe the proper term.
Old 26th November 2013
  #69
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lynngraber's Avatar
lead every song off with a snare crack.
Old 3rd December 2013
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saciestudio View Post
Well, one important thing is to have levels set on cameras because if the auto-gain is on, the audio (and thus the waveform) gets compressed and harder to 'see'. Uncompressed is always best so you can really see the peaks and the differences between them. But it's usually quite easy to do by eye (for me, at least - some friends say I can "read the Matrix" when they see me working LOL).

A step-by-step of a possible way:

Get the files of the 3 cameras (for example) into the project, each camera to a channel (camera 1 goes to video 1, audio 1 , camera 2 video 2 audio 2 etc) and the independent audio channel to the last audio channel (or you may do it reverse, keep audio1-2 for your mix and put the videos at 3, 4, 5, doesn't really matter)

Choose a starting point. Let's say you started shooting just before the DJ stopped the music for the concert to start, or just before an announcer, something must be the common starting point where you'll have the audio and the cameras running together. Trim all your clips to that moment and roughly line them up. Now, if you have the waveforms show up (usually you will need to expand the audio view or click a checkbox on a preference menu depending on the software used), you will probably be able to see similarities (spoken word is great for rough sync and drum hits, song breaks, stuff like that for more precise frame nudging). Line up the similarities so that the similar peaks show up at the same frame. Doing this way I rarely need to sync more than once per file (which usually go up to 12 min or 29:59 depending on the camera). Never seen a drift problem with DSLRs, but with a Gopro I had to recheck sync every 5 minutes or so and splice the clips because it would drift a lot.
Ok thanks i will expand the audio view or click a checkbox on menu. Any good software for sync.
Old 3rd December 2013
  #71
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Do you use Mac or PC? What software do you edit video on?

also,
manually sync audio and video - Pesquisa Google
Old 12th December 2013
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saciestudio View Post
Do you use Mac or PC? What software do you edit video on?

also,
manually sync audio and video - Pesquisa Google
I use Pc.I recently used Red Giant PluralEyes 3 Audio/Video Sync Software but not succeeded well in that.
Old 12th December 2013
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
I use Pc.I recently used Red Giant PluralEyes 3 Audio/Video Sync Software but not succeeded well in that.
Plural Eyes will get you in the neighborhood, but at the end of the day, you need to make sure it will pass the eye test. On that will tell if it is really in sync or not. On some projects, I find it is great. Other projects, I've found it anywhere from a frame out to a second or more out.

I use Plural Eyes to get things started, then I go through every clip of every camera and make sure that it looks correct when listening to the recorded audio.


--Ben
Old 17th December 2013
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fifthcircle View Post
Plural Eyes will get you in the neighborhood, but at the end of the day, you need to make sure it will pass the eye test. On that will tell if it is really in sync or not. On some projects, I find it is great. Other projects, I've found it anywhere from a frame out to a second or more out.

I use Plural Eyes to get things started, then I go through every clip of every camera and make sure that it looks correct when listening to the recorded audio.


--Ben
Ok...i also tried it but i feel like its not sync lot so i left using that. Any key points to keep in mind using Plural eyes for sync.
Old 17th December 2013
  #75
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As I said, it gets you in the neighborhood. However, once you're close, then you need to work on it manually. You might want to make sure that you check the option under the sync menu "Try Really Hard." sometimes that helps.

Plural Eyes is a tool that matches waveforms. Those waveforms may or may not be in perfect sync. If the microphone on the camera is 40 feet out or so, then the audio will arrive 40ms late (roughly). 40ms is about a frame out (depending on frame rate) which means you'd be syncing out of absolute sync. Hence the need to look at all of your angles and manually tweak a frame or two if needed. Sometimes you need to tweak more. When I'm just using video cameras and I have one or two long video tracks that aren't broken up (like DSLR footage), I will usually skip the Plural Eyes step and do it manually as it is faster for me that way. when I have a half dozen cameras, multiple DSLRs, etc... then I bring in Plural Eyes to put stuff close and I manually finish.

--Ben
Old 26th December 2013
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fifthcircle View Post
As I said, it gets you in the neighborhood. However, once you're close, then you need to work on it manually. You might want to make sure that you check the option under the sync menu "Try Really Hard." sometimes that helps.

Plural Eyes is a tool that matches waveforms. Those waveforms may or may not be in perfect sync. If the microphone on the camera is 40 feet out or so, then the audio will arrive 40ms late (roughly). 40ms is about a frame out (depending on frame rate) which means you'd be syncing out of absolute sync. Hence the need to look at all of your angles and manually tweak a frame or two if needed. Sometimes you need to tweak more. When I'm just using video cameras and I have one or two long video tracks that aren't broken up (like DSLR footage), I will usually skip the Plural Eyes step and do it manually as it is faster for me that way. when I have a half dozen cameras, multiple DSLRs, etc... then I bring in Plural Eyes to put stuff close and I manually finish.

--Ben
Thanks for info. you said Plural Eyes are not perfect for Sync. Do you know any tool for sync which is easy to operate?
Old 26th December 2013
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Thanks for info. you said Plural Eyes are not perfect for Sync. Do you know any tool for sync which is easy to operate?
I don't mean to be a smartass, but really, the answer is your eyes, your ears and an understanding of whatever editing software you use.

Nothing can do all the work for you and as I mentioned, the time lag from performer to camera can put things a frame or more out of sync. That means that if you are using mics on cameras, there is no possible way to get your audio in sync with video by matching waveforms.

--Ben
Old 27th December 2013
  #78
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Jaden, my suggestion is to take your video camera and make a video recording of the elapsed time on your audio recorder as you record a test file into your audio recorder. I like to video making clicks with a dog clicker at the beginning and about every 15 minutes until I've recorded about an hour and a half. Import the files into your video software and then align the spikes at the beginning of the file.

Look at the spikes in the rest of the file and give yourself a baseline of how much drift you have between your camera(s) and your recorder at various times in the recording. You can also visually compare when your fingers make the clicks with the dog clicker in the video compared to when they appear in your audio recording. This will give you a measurable baseline from which you can see what kind of drift you have in your equipment.

Because the clicks stand out so well, it's also an easy file to experiment with to see what your software does to sync it (or not), and what you might end up having to do to manually bring it the rest of the way home. This is a much easier file to figure things out than trying to figure it out in a 2 hour concert video.
Old 2nd January 2014
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fifthcircle View Post
I don't mean to be a smartass, but really, the answer is your eyes, your ears and an understanding of whatever editing software you use.

Nothing can do all the work for you and as I mentioned, the time lag from performer to camera can put things a frame or more out of sync. That means that if you are using mics on cameras, there is no possible way to get your audio in sync with video by matching waveforms.

--Ben
Ok thanks, i will try out manually until i will feel its sync. You mentioned there is no possible way to get your audio in sync with video by matching waveforms while using mics. Is there any another method of voice sync.
Old 3rd January 2014
  #80
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The only way you can ensure good sync by matching waveforms is making sure that the pickup of the audio is from the same location as the source. Recording mics, feed from the console, etc... are all possibilities. If you are using the mic on the camera, you have to account for the delay in time for sound to reach the camera. It doesn't take much for that to sound to be out of sync. As I said, at the end of the day, you need to look at it and make sure that it's really in sync.

--Ben
Old 16th January 2014
  #81
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Thanks for tips, i will try to pick audio is from the same location as the source. I will try manually to get it sync.
Old 19th January 2014
  #82
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Although there is the delay between incoming audio and picture because of the different speeds of sound and light, it has never been a problem for me. If I am correct on the math the delay would be around 1 frame for each 11m of distance between the camera and the subject (at 30fps). The further I had a camera on a show I would guess 30m, which started to feel odd, then I just sync a drum hit with the mixed audio, pushing the image 3 frames later. I still call it aligning trough the waveforms.
Old 24th January 2014
  #83
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I like the way you made calculation simple. I will try to sync a drum hit with the mixed audio. Does Importing the files into video software and then align the spikes at the beginning of the file works?
Old 27th January 2014
  #84
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It does, provided that the camera is nearer than 11m (~33ft) and records audio in sync. Never hurts to check with a drum hit, clap or slate, though.
Old 6th February 2014
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saciestudio View Post
It does, provided that the camera is nearer than 11m (~33ft) and records audio in sync. Never hurts to check with a drum hit, clap or slate, though.
Thanks for info, I will first check drum hit, clap or slate. Can i manually sync. if camera is not nearer than 11m?
Old 6th February 2014
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Can i manually sync. if camera is not nearer than 11m?
You can manually sync no matter how far away the camera is. Are we becoming disabled by our computers? Do we not know how to do anything for ourselves anymore?

I manually synced most of this concert with no reference at all. The camera sound failed completely and I synced this song on the "L" in Jerusalem at 0:59

Old 7th February 2014
  #87
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Yes and yes if we're being truthful. Otherwise, no and no.

My daughter was asking me why she had to learn so much algebra. I started telling her about having to solve for simultaneous variables. At least it made her algebra homework not seem so bad.
Old 19th February 2014
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Crowley View Post
You can manually sync no matter how far away the camera is. Are we becoming disabled by our computers? Do we not know how to do anything for ourselves anymore?

I manually synced most of this concert with no reference at all. The camera sound failed completely and I synced this song on the "L" in Jerusalem at 0:59

Thanks for answering. I will try to sync by manually. Sometimes i feel software's use are lowering our manual skills.
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