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help for grand piano recording in a small room Condenser Microphones
Old 1 week ago
  #121
Gear Nut
I agree with a lot of what has been already said. Ideally in a perfect acoustic a slightly more distant placement is better.

However, for most of us we have to deal with a bad room or recital hall. In this situation I tend to place the mics close to the lid looking in and the height may vary, or level with the rim of the piano. Sometimes even inside near the bridge. This way I can get a good sound and eliminate the too early reflections.

Here is a photo Dropbox - DSC_0138.jpg
Old 1 week ago
  #122
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurcher_lover View Post
I agree with a lot of what has been already said. Ideally in a perfect acoustic a slightly more distant placement is better.

However, for most of us we have to deal with a bad room or recital hall. In this situation I tend to place the mics close to the lid looking in and the height may vary, or level with the rim of the piano. Sometimes even inside near the bridge. This way I can get a good sound and eliminate the too early reflections.

Here is a photo Dropbox - DSC_0138.jpg
It must be a pretty awful room that you'd want to 'hide' from it by going that far under the lid..... to me that's like working under the hood of a revving car engine, to get away from the sound of the aircraft flying 30,000 feet over your workshop...

Methinks you simply like the sound under the piano lid...and just leave the explanation at that ? Which is fine, there's nothing wrong with liking the sound of a close-miked piano...if the music is amenable to it.
Old 1 week ago
  #123
Gear Nut
Once I get More than say 2 feet from the instrument the sound starts to go downhill, and at 6 feet it is pretty poor. So at the rim of the instrument seems to work very well, and even inside and over the strings works too, and is still OK for classical music.
Old 1 week ago
  #124
Gear Nut
Ribbons

Quote:
Originally Posted by VlaVlnPlayer View Post
Hello all! I'm bringing this thread up again... I'm to record in the same room I mentioned on post 98 (help for grand piano recording in a small room) -- no audience, classical repertoire.

Last time, the LineAudio CM3 in NOS about 3' from the piano, lined up with the lid, angled 45 degrees gave me a nice result, so I'm planning on repeating it. I was wondering about experimenting with the Decca Tail technique, but using Ribbons instead of omni mics. Any reactions? My thought is that it'd help me getting rid of the early reflections from the low ceiling, but I'm not sure if it's worth trying it (I'd have to borrow a pair of ribbons, but that shouldn't be a problem for this session).

Thanks!
Hi VlaVlnPlayer,

I've used ribbons as a piano spot in just that way with some success, both in chamber music and piano concertos. The reason I like it is that it presents a narrower image (to avoid the stage-width piano) and lovely sound. The challenges are fitting that spot sound in with your mains. In your described case, I'd use them as a different mains pair in Blumlein. Perhaps more in front of the piano instead of off the trail.

But maybe you've done the recording already? If so, what are your thoughts?
Old 1 week ago
  #125
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurcher_lover View Post
Once I get More than say 2 feet from the instrument the sound starts to go downhill, and at 6 feet it is pretty poor. So at the rim of the instrument seems to work very well, and even inside and over the strings works too, and is still OK for classical music.
I can appreciate that, at 6 feet out from the piano, with omnis, the room is starting to have quite a noticeable impact....and that perhaps at the curve/rim edge is probably the sweet-spot trade-off point.

However, going under the lid (as per the photo) might be giving you a 'small cavity' effect almost as bad or worse than the room itself ?

So often with these things, it's about going with the lesser of a few evils....!
Old 1 week ago
  #126
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I can appreciate that, at 6 feet out from the piano, with omnis, the room is starting to have quite a noticeable impact....and that perhaps at the curve/rim edge is probably the sweet-spot trade-off point.

However, going under the lid (as per the photo) might be giving you a 'small cavity' effect almost as bad or worse than the room itself ?

So often with these things, it's about going with the lesser of a few evils....!
In fact the mono recording I made at the same time with the AKG C414 mic sounded very good, and that was just out side the piano looking in at an approximate height of about 4 feet.

So I might use the omni DPA mics in that position on a short bar and see what it sounds like. (That's when i can get a session with my wife who is very busy at present).
Old 1 week ago
  #127
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by VillageOp View Post
Hi VlaVlnPlayer,

I've used ribbons as a piano spot in just that way with some success, both in chamber music and piano concertos. The reason I like it is that it presents a narrower image (to avoid the stage-width piano) and lovely sound. The challenges are fitting that spot sound in with your mains. In your described case, I'd use them as a different mains pair in Blumlein. Perhaps more in front of the piano instead of off the trail.

But maybe you've done the recording already? If so, what are your thoughts?
Thanks! I haven’t done the recording yet - perhaps I’ll try it!
Old 1 week ago
  #128
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Exclamation

Most important ! - first listen with your ears and listen carefully in many places around the room.

Where it sounds best to your ears is probably the best place to put the mics.

Set the mics there - make a test recording and listen.

If it sounds good - go for it - if not, try again.
Old 1 day ago
  #129
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 

As a "quick-and-dirty" (i.e., no time to listen) and/or a PA reinforcement solution, I often deploy a single DPA4061 inside the piano, gaff taped to frame (the mic element is 3/4-1" above the frame element) at the point where the first high strings pass under the low strings. The sound is detailed and balanced, and not overly percussive or bright. I may or may not remove the "soft boost" grid on the 4061 depending upon how bright the piano is voiced.

For the odd stereo mic'ing gig, I usually do, 6" away from the hammers, a gaff tape "bridge" across the box, with the 4061 elements deployed at 1/3-2/3, and hanging freely about an inch behind the tape (i.e., pointed at the tail of the piano, not at the hammers). This is a brighter and more percussive sound, much like the Earthworks piano mic setup would produce... at a cost that's far more affordable and transportable. The 4061s and cables have so little mass that gaff tape is a suitable suspension medium... no problems whatsoever in 10 years of deploying them.

Kudos to Rich Mays (Sonare, RIP) for advice on the technique. It simply works well, in nearly every situation outside a recital in a pristine space.

YMMV.

HB
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