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Nagra VII - possibly not what you were expecting Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 13th April 2013
  #1
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Nagra VII - possibly not what you were expecting

NAB 2013 - NAGRA VII - YouTube

Take the LB, increase the connectivity, including mobile broadband ... just the thing for breaking live concert news from the field.

Not clear if the data transport is just file transport or provision for live streaming. As they have an ISDN (Inaccessible Slowing Dying Network) option, then sounds like streaming is intended (what Codec?).

Nothing on the Nagra site as yet ...
Old 13th April 2013
  #2
Zem
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Hello Panatrope

Quote:
possibly not what you were expecting
Yep, you can write that again.

I wonder if it's the right move for Nagra.

This thing is clearly designed for broadcasting, but the broadcasting industry employ less and less sound enginneers. The tendency is to give handheld recorders to the journalists (which Nagra already designed -and with some talent apparently- with the Pico and Lino)

But that's probably only bitterness and disapoitment from my side as I was waiting for an extended Nagra VI.

I'm waiting for the Cantar X3 now. heh
Old 13th April 2013
  #3
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I thought the 7 would be more like a 6. Cutting down to 2 inputs rules out many potential buyers. Perhaps they figure the 6 is just fine the way it is.
Old 14th April 2013
  #4
ISDN is still important for a small group of people. So small, that they included the option as a card, with most people going for the timecode card, I'll venture to guess.

Timecode, two excellent preamps, recorder, physical transport switch... hits all the bases for me, I think I'll take one. I do own the VI. Is it perfect? Far from it, but many of the changes that need to be made can be done via firmware update, so I'm hoping they continue to put some effort into developing the software. Personally, I could do without the touchscreen. Some questions that remain to be seen...

SRC on the AES input?
metadata entry - assuming it should be simple with the touchscreen and one of the (few) advantages of a touchscreen.
Slate mic? I didn't seem to see one, obviously no mechanical switch, I'm guessing it was omitted on this model. Not a deal breaker, but I would have liked to have seen a mechanical slating switch added.
Seems to be missing strap mounting points - don't know if it is just an early prototype case that will change, but is a big departure from every other Nagra product I've ever seen.
Old 14th April 2013
  #5
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Seems like a replacement for the LB. Perhaps the 6ch. VI will be replaced with an 8ch. VIII.
Old 14th April 2013
  #6
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Yes it seems like an LB replacement but the LB still has editing functionality that I have been told some people use...a little confused by the decision to go SD media especially given that the VI and LB use CF cards. The touch screen an interesting decision but am I the only one that actually likes physical switches? It does make the whole unit very neat and uncluttered though. Biggest question for me is sound, the more I use the LB the more I like the sound , could this really be better? Hard to imagine...
Old 14th April 2013
  #7
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Nagra (JO) described the LB pre-amps performance as being between the NV and the NVI. As in the video, JO describes the pre-amps as "NVI pre-amps" then we may presume the quality in the analog domain. I presume tha A-D conversion is also of the same standard, and also to 192kHz capability. , from my standpoint, regard it as a destination when I move on from my NV.

Of course, as a broadcaster also, I await to see how fully it meets my oft-stated request to Nagra about when will the Ethernet connection (on the LB) be available for real-time streaming from the field. With the inclusion of 3G (read HSPA) streaming - and hopefully the provision to upgrade to LTE - the EtherNet connection becomes somewhat irrelevant.

It real depends on how closely Nagra have listened to people in the field - an not just in Europe or USA - about what they need in real life, carrying out their job in the field. Fidelity is on 50% of the equation, flexibility and fitness for purpose is the equally important remainder.
Old 14th April 2013
  #8
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I looks like a machine that can easily be operated by the reporter / journalist / interviewer.

ISDN is important for every broadcaster in America who does live broadcast or also who sends audio in real time. (not in an e-mail).

Nagra Lb is still the music machine, this is a reporter's machine. There are a lot more opportunities to sell into broadcast than in to music.

Nagra VI is already 8 channel. Do the Nagra complainers here even use any of the Nagra machines?
Old 14th April 2013
  #9
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Plush, curious as to what you think makes the LB more of a music machine than this one? Not disagreeing, just wondering what youve spotted yourself that makes you draw that conclusion
Old 15th April 2013
  #10
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosrite View Post
Plush, curious as to what you think makes the LB more of a music machine than this one? Not disagreeing, just wondering what youve spotted yourself that makes you draw that conclusion
Agreed - I'm curious as to why as well???

The LB was designed primarily as a recorder for radio broadcast - especially with all the editing functions that only worked at low bit-rate levels and not at 24/96.

The new Nagra VII has better mic. pres. than the LB, so I would say that the new unit will be more of a recording machine.
Old 16th April 2013
  #11
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I don't know anything about the new Nagra VII other than what was shown in the video with John Owens. Front panel looks like a simplified LB with features easily used by any reporter. I bet it's a great machine.

The add ons make the VII be a really modern machine. Isn't it clearly aimed towards reporters who need to file the story NOW?

It features ISDN and a wireless card for sending audio to the broadcast headquarters. I bet it sounds great too. I will stand by to know more about this new compact machine.

I have no idea how the mic amps on the VII compare to the LB or the VI. Certainly nothing Owens said gave a clue since all mic amps from Nagra are now described as "Nagra VI type."

I do know that the LB is a great music recording machine. In the Nagra line, that machine was the first with 192 kHz. rate. In the USA, it is considered a great music recording machine and many recordists who own the Nagra VI, have also purchased the LB.

So here in the USA, the LB is considered a music machine most primarily.
I know that the factory also holds this view.
Old 19th April 2013
  #12
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The LB was titled as a universal recorder. I think editing of 24bit files and TC would have made this so.

The VII could be aimed at broadcast but then it omits useful broadcast features that the LB has e.g internal mic, editing function etc.

When they scrapped the plans for an LB lite I guess they came up with the VII...

Guessing price point will be really critical. Very interested to know if its going to be more expensive than the LB and how it compares to the 702T, could grab a share of that market with its TC capability...
Old 27th April 2013
  #13
AB3
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That would be awesome and I would want one.
Anyone know what kind of batteries and performance time on batteries?
THANKS,
AB

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
Agreed - I'm curious as to why as well???

The LB was designed primarily as a recorder for radio broadcast - especially with all the editing functions that only worked at low bit-rate levels and not at 24/96.

The new Nagra VII has better mic. pres. than the LB, so I would say that the new unit will be more of a recording machine.
Old 31st May 2013
  #14
A few updates "through the grapevine"...

Yes, there will be a slate mic included.
Yes, SRC on the AES inputs.
Metadata entry though touchscreen or USB keyboard
AES42 digital input supported
REC LED will be present
Internal memory is Micro SD, and is easy to change by the end user for increased capacity. Shipping capacity ?
Can use the AA battery box from the LB if one wishes, so both Lithium and NiMH options or even AA from the corner store for dire emergencies.
Sunlight readability of touchscreen should equal the VI.
Mic pres are slightly different than the VI. Sensitivity goes up to 40 mV/pa, versus the VI 30 mV/Pa. The limiters work in the digital domain (or digital controlled analog, I'm not sure?). Some qualitative comments were made about the preamps and limiters, I'm going to wait for unbiased peer review, but everything I heard (of) was all very positive stuff.

Also, entirely designed and manufactured in Switzerland.
Old 31st May 2013
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsvisser View Post
A few updates "through the grapevine"...

Yes, there will be a slate mic included.
Yes, SRC on the AES inputs.
Metadata entry though touchscreen or USB keyboard
AES42 digital input supported
REC LED will be present
Internal memory is Micro SD, and is easy to change by the end user for increased capacity. Shipping capacity ?
Can use the AA battery box from the LB if one wishes, so both Lithium and NiMH options or even AA from the corner store for dire emergencies.
Sunlight readability of touchscreen should equal the VI.
Mic pres are slightly different than the VI. Sensitivity goes up to 40 mV/pa, versus the VI 30 mV/Pa. The limiters work in the digital domain (or digital controlled analog, I'm not sure?). Some qualitative comments were made about the preamps and limiters, I'm going to wait for unbiased peer review, but everything I heard (of) was all very positive stuff.

Also, entirely designed and manufactured in Switzerland.
Sounds good
Old 31st May 2013
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsvisser View Post
Internal memory is Micro SD, and is easy to change by the end user for increased capacity. Shipping capacity ?
Surely not, those fiddly tiny little cards found in smartphones? Where you have to use a fingernail to latch onto them to remove?

Surely they are standard SD cards.
Old 1st June 2013
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
Surely not, those fiddly tiny little cards found in smartphones? Where you have to use a fingernail to latch onto them to remove?

Surely they are standard SD cards.
This is the memory that would have been soldered on the motherboard a few years ago, just for backup or as a buffer in between switching out external media. The fact that it is Micro SD just means that the end user can change it out if needed, for an emergency file recovery say that your machine gets run over by a truck or something... or have the burning desire to upgrade it to a larger size. (they currently top out an an unbelievable 64GB for a pinky nail size card).

The normal day to day media is going to be a more standard card size. SD or CF? I think the prototype showed an SD slot.
Old 3rd July 2013
  #18
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Provisional specs have been posted on the Nagra site recently (since I last looked a few weeks ago). A couple of comments.

Analog and digital inputs (the latter AES42-capable), but I assume not usable simultaneously (same as the Nagra V).

Preamps are assumed to be of the Nagra VI lineage. 45dB gain range within the selected sensitivity level. Quoted input noise 1uV (1.6uV for 40mV range) but not sure whether weighted or not. Means an equivalent input noise level of 14dB SPL at 10mV -same as a Schoeps MK4 self-noise. No complaints about noise level when using an MK4 on a Nagra VI (or Nagra V for that matter). Dynamics or ribbons?

The connectivity options look interesting. Hope a show-and-tell of the prototype is available at Sydney SMPTE later this month - and indicative pricing.
Old 10th November 2013
  #19
Gear Head
 

Looks pretty nice!!

Questions:

how are touch screens for people with long fingernails e.g. me, a flamenco guitarist?

Be nice if the basic version had a much lower price than the LB.... any word?

Latest planned release of the product? I'm in the market now, so very interested!!!
Old 10th November 2013
  #20
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Larry Elliott's Avatar
I understand from my dealer that they are now available, although some of the option cards are yet to be delivered
Old 10th November 2013
  #21
(my opinion) touch screens are for consumer products, not professional gear. I'm disappointed by Nagra's decision to embrace touchscreen and move away from analog pots or digital controls with dedicated switches and encoders. I'm leaving an open mind enough to reserve judgement on the VII until I can form a more educated opinion. At least the main function selector is still there and gain is controlled via rotary encoder - the most important functions to remain tactile controlled. I also wish that the slate mic was manually controlled too.
Old 10th November 2013
  #22
Lives for gear
I don't like touch screen
However Tesco our largest Supermarket has been using them on tills for 30 yrs without issue
All mechanical switches will fail at some time..
Like it or not
Old 11th November 2013
  #23
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Malkin View Post
Looks pretty nice!!

Questions:

how are touch screens for people with long fingernails e.g. me, a flamenco guitarist?

Be nice if the basic version had a much lower price than the LB.... any word?

Latest planned release of the product? I'm in the market now, so very interested!!!
Can you use an iPhone?
Old 31st March 2014
  #24
Gear Head
About analog and digital input simultaneously

Quote:
Originally Posted by panatrope View Post
Provisional specs have been posted on the Nagra site recently (since I last looked a few weeks ago). A couple of comments.

Analog and digital inputs (the latter AES42-capable), but I assume not usable simultaneously (same as the Nagra V).

Preamps are assumed to be of the Nagra VI lineage. 45dB gain range within the selected sensitivity level. Quoted input noise 1uV (1.6uV for 40mV range) but not sure whether weighted or not. Means an equivalent input noise level of 14dB SPL at 10mV -same as a Schoeps MK4 self-noise. No complaints about noise level when using an MK4 on a Nagra VI (or Nagra V for that matter). Dynamics or ribbons?

The connectivity options look interesting. Hope a show-and-tell of the prototype is available at Sydney SMPTE later this month - and indicative pricing.
I am very interested in this recorder and I have received the answer from Nagra about:
Analog and digital inputs (the latter AES42-capable), but I assume not usable simultaneously (same as the Nagra V).

Here it is: Hello,
Thank-you, could you please said to me in the Nagra Seven manual where I can see how to mix the AES/32 stereo input with the two microphone inputs in the Nagra Seven.
In the page 7 is said :"The AES input is a standard AES 31
stereo audio input. (...) to ensure
accurate synchronization is possible at all times."

It seems to me that in the input matrix I can select simultâneous analogue and AES 31 digital stereo and mix the two in the Nagra Seven.

From page 23:

"Input matrix
The Input Matrix is used to route the audio to the left and/or right channels. By touching the
different boxes, either input can be sent to either or both channels. The selections can be made for
both analog and digital input signals. The analog and digital “Presets” will reset the inputs to their
default mode of standard stereo."




Am I right or wrong about the mixing?

Regards,
José

> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Returned from Nagraaudio - PRO contact page
> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 16:49:57 +0000
>
> Dear Sir,
>
> The NAGRA Seven is the only recorder that can use the digital and analog inputs at the same time.
>
> I hope this answers your question,
>
> Kindest regards,
> John OWENS
Old 31st March 2014
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FREITOJOS View Post
Am I right or wrong about the mixing?

> The NAGRA Seven is the only recorder that can use the digital and analog inputs at the same time.
>
> I hope this answers your question,
>
> Kindest regards,
> John OWENS
Strange, my Nagra 6 allows both analog and digital inputs to be used and mixed simultaneously.
Old 31st March 2014
  #26
Gear Head
Strange, my Nagra 6 allows both analog and digital inputs to be used and mixed simultaneously.

I think Mr Owens from Nagra is thinking about a two track recorder. The Nagra Seven is a two track recorder.
Old 31st March 2014
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FREITOJOS View Post
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Returned from Nagraaudio - PRO contact page
> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 16:49:57 +0000
>
> Dear Sir,
>
> The NAGRA Seven is the only recorder that can use the digital and analog inputs at the same time.
>
> I hope this answers your question,
>
> Kindest regards,
> John OWENS
OK. So if I get a NVII (maybe that should be N7), I can still use my NV as an extension via AES for an extra pair of mics and a stereo line input - NV + N7 = NVI?

Of course, an MKH8030/MKH8040/MK-D via AES and a couple of MK21 via analog is also an interesting configuration ...
Old 1st April 2014
  #28
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A 744T can use digital and analog inputs at the same time.

philp
Old 1st April 2014
  #29
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boojum's Avatar
The Sound Devices 788T has an individual switch on each input to select analog or digital. That would mean any possible combo of analog and digital.
Old 1st April 2014
  #30
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boojum's Avatar
The Sound Devices 788T has an individual switch on each input to select analog or digital. That would mean any possible combo of analog and digital. So, any combination of eight inputs, all with pre's and phantom and digital available that will feed up to twelve tracks.
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