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Nagra VII - possibly not what you were expecting Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 11th July 2014
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
Mode-2 allows the microphones to be clocked from the receiving equipment – the clock signal is sent to the microphones as part of the data stream. Advantages include: no SRC and a constant phase relationship (close to 0°) between different mics, independent of cable length or other influences.
So "Close to zero" is not phase accurate. How close is close? Is this rigorously documented anywhere?
Old 12th July 2014
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
So "Close to zero" is not phase accurate. How close is close? Is this rigorously documented anywhere?
That's a lot more accurate than mode-1.

And it's documented in the AES42 spec., which is where I found it in the first place.
Old 15th October 2014
  #63
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post

I will have a thorough report on the Nagra Seven.
Any chance of hearing more of your assessment of the Nagra Seven?

How similar are the preamps to the Nagra VI?
Old 16th October 2014
  #64
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I'm curious about this too as I just bought a Seven which should arrive on Friday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmusic View Post
Any chance of hearing more of your assessment of the Nagra Seven?

How similar are the preamps to the Nagra VI?
Old 16th October 2014
  #65
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Hello Dogmusic and bwanajim,

I just spent the last few days with the Nagra team at the AES Los Angeles show.

John Owens the head of Nagra audio at Audio Technology Switzerland in Switzerland was there as well as Nancy Belt, USA manager of Audio Technology Switzerland USA, and also Peter Weibel, Nagra Hollywood was there.

We had a great time at the booth and also with some banging vodkas and gins with dinner at the Hotel Luxe in downtown Hell-A.

I had a great visit with them and they informed me that I was the #1 Nagrist in America.

To celebrate it I was presented with a Swiss leather hand made strap for my Nagra VI. Thank you, Nagra. It is made by a lady who makes horse bridles and riding gear.

Just last week there is a new software released for the Nagra Seven. It expands on the role of the touchscreen to control everything Nagra Seven.

It was confirmed to me that the Nagra Seven has the same mic amps as the Nagra VI and also I judge the a/d and d/a conversion to be really first class.
This is a fantastic sounding machine at the very top of the international recording cadre. Trust it for your best recordings.

I have put the Nagra Seven through a summer of busy music festival work where it was my main recorder as I mixed the program material live to stereo on the machine.

The machine was super reliable with never any failure or hiccup. Recording on to a solid state media is the way to go.

3G, ISDN, streaming, and editing are now implemented as options on the Nagra Seven. I don't use any of that because I am a music man who uses it as a replacement to my Nagra V.

I have not experimented with the AES 42 on the machine. However, it is known that if one uses a Sennheiser MKH 8000 series microphone pair with the Sennheiser MZD digital module, that you have stereo in (mode 2) on the Nagra Seven AES 42 input. You will need to obtain a special Y-cable from Sennheiser
Germany to do it. (they will build it for you).

I enjoyed meeting Rod Evensen from Portland who is another outstanding music Nagrist with a lot of experience. He regaled me with his advice about using Neumann AES 42 mics on the Nagra VI.

The Nagra booth was very busy as pros came by to oogle the Nagras on the stand. Totally pro as many were purchased.

So sally forth and press record on your Nagra Seven. You, too, are part of a world wide fraternity who knows the best sound.

Buy your Nagra today.
Old 16th October 2014
  #66
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Hello Dogmusic and bwanajim,

I just spent the last few days with the Nagra team at the AES Los Angeles show.

John Owens the head of Nagra audio at Audio Technology Switzerland in Switzerland was there as well as Nancy Belt, USA manager of Audio Technology Switzerland USA, and also Peter Weibel, Nagra Hollywood was there.

We had a great time at the booth and also with some banging vodkas and gins with dinner at the Hotel Luxe in downtown Hell-A.

I had a great visit with them and they informed me that I was the #1 Nagrist in America.

To celebrate it I was presented with a Swiss leather hand made strap for my Nagra VI. Thank you, Nagra. It is made by a lady who makes horse bridles and riding gear.

Just last week there is a new software released for the Nagra Seven. It expands on the role of the touchscreen to control everything Nagra Seven.

It was confirmed to me that the Nagra Seven has the same mic amps as the Nagra VI and also I judge the a/d and d/a conversion to be really first class.
This is a fantastic sounding machine at the very top of the international recording cadre. Trust it for your best recordings.

I have put the Nagra Seven through a summer of busy music festival work where it was my main recorder as I mixed the program material live to stereo on the machine.

The machine was super reliable with never any failure or hiccup. Recording on to a solid state media is the way to go.

3G, ISDN, streaming, and editing are now implemented as options on the Nagra Seven. I don't use any of that because I am a music man who uses it as a replacement to my Nagra V.

I have not experimented with the AES 42 on the machine. However, it is known that if one uses a Sennheiser MKH 8000 series microphone pair with the Sennheiser MZD digital module, that you have stereo in (mode 2) on the Nagra Seven AES 42 input. You will need to obtain a special Y-cable from Sennheiser
Germany to do it. (they will build it for you).

I enjoyed meeting Rod Evensen from Portland who is another outstanding music Nagrist with a lot of experience. He regaled me with his advice about using Neumann AES 42 mics on the Nagra VI.

The Nagra booth was very busy as pros came by to oogle the Nagras on the stand. Totally pro as many were purchased.

So sally forth and press record on your Nagra Seven. You, too, are part of a world wide fraternity who knows the best sound.

Buy your Nagra today.
Thanks very much for that info.

Did you run it mostly at 24/192? As I'm sure you know, it is a matter of some dispute whether a difference can be heard between 24/192 and 24/96 (some would say even 24/48). I do hear an improvement at 24/192 on my SONY PCM-D100 and wondered whether you compared this on the Nagra Seven.
Old 17th October 2014
  #67
Lives for gear
Thanks for the feedback, Plush! AES42 Mode 2 support is really big news to me. Nagra doesn't advertise that feature. I am planning to play around with the MZD8000. Maybe we can get John Willet to give us some advice on whom to contact at Sennheiser to get one of those Y cables?

FedEx just showed up with my Seven!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
I have not experimented with the AES 42 on the machine. However, it is known that if one uses a Sennheiser MKH 8000 series microphone pair with the Sennheiser MZD digital module, that you have stereo in (mode 2) on the Nagra Seven AES 42 input. You will need to obtain a special Y-cable from Sennheiser
Germany to do it. (they will build it for you).

I enjoyed meeting Rod Evensen from Portland who is another outstanding music Nagrist with a lot of experience. He regaled me with his advice about using Neumann AES 42 mics on the Nagra VI.

The Nagra booth was very busy as pros came by to oogle the Nagras on the stand. Totally pro as many were purchased.

So sally forth and press record on your Nagra Seven. You, too, are part of a world wide fraternity who knows the best sound.

Buy your Nagra today.
Old 11th March 2018
  #68
Gear Head
 

Would like to hear where all this went. Is it possible to somehow use 4 DPA mics with the two preamps and a way to go in the others with some interface and make the other two DPAs work and everything clock and mix as if I was ising the 4 track Nagra VI? At minimum, I need a stereo recorder but need to get the MC at the podium in. What is the best solution with the Nagra Seven here?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #70
Lives for gear
Quote:
So a newer form factor with a chunkier front panel (is the 7 lacking in strength or rigidity ?) and pots replacing encoders....not a substantial enough makeover to justify the fanfare is it ? Maybe they are marketing to snob value to revitalise sluggish sales....to give it that "Limited Edition look"....and to use up some of that excess aluminium cluttering up the factory.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #71
I love my “legacy” Nagra Seven. My one caveat is that it doesn’t have that overbuilt feel of the analog machines that are lovingly machined out of solid blocks of unobtanium. However, it weighs nothing, sounds great, and always works flawlessly.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #72
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And that sound is what you will probably still get - and the operational features. I suspect the audio part of the pcb may get a few tweaks and maybe an updated version of the processor (if one exists), but these will be driven by a production cost reduction imperative. The software will probably still be basically V2.21, released over a year ago. There are still foreshadowed features (such as AES-42 Mode 2 support and real-time streaming) to be realised, but I suspect that software engineering is the resource bottleneck at Nagra Audio, and the market demand (ie., Radio France) for these features is seen as limited.

But I am open to being surprised. Maybe Plush (as Nagrist-In-Chief) may have something to add ...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avillalta View Post
I love my “legacy” Nagra Seven. My one caveat is that it doesn’t have that overbuilt feel of the analog machines that are lovingly machined out of solid blocks of unobtanium. However, it weighs nothing, sounds great, and always works flawlessly.
Perfect....you're hence the customer Nagra have crafted the latest incarnation of the 7 for....which means you can down sell your currently inadequate machine along the food-chain...to me ! Keep those wheels of industry turning boy...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panatrope View Post
There are still foreshadowed features (such as AES-42 Mode 2 support and real-time streaming) to be realised, but I suspect that software engineering is the resource bottleneck at Nagra Audio, and the market demand (ie., Radio France) for these features is seen as limited.

But I am open to being surprised. Maybe Plush (as Nagrist-In-Chief) may have something to add ...
That's what you (Nagra) reap in return for building the Perfect Beast....nobody wants (or needs) to upgrade !

Last edited by studer58; 3 weeks ago at 09:42 AM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #75
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I am unclear whether this latest version is a cosmetic change or if anything is different inside.

I am of the opinion that nothing about the machine required any updates.

I'm sure more news will be out soon.

One of the best things about the Nagra Seven is its light weight. If the new front makes it heavier, then that is a mistake.

(if a piece of high end hi-fi gear does not weigh a lot, then it is seen as being of lesser quality.)

Audio Technology Switzerland also presented a $39,500 dac at the AES show. I don't know anything about it. I'm sure it sounds outstanding as does their hi-fi dac.

However, one of the world's best dacs, the Dave Hill designed Cranesong Solaris, costs less than $2000. That is their competition.

I will be in Switzerland next month so I'll report in.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #76
Gear Head
 

I think this will be a Nagra VI replacement and will remove all the switches to be more menu driven and carry the same preamps as the Seven. Which, I think sound better than the VI.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaBzg View Post
I think this will be a Nagra VI replacement and will remove all the switches to be more menu driven and carry the same preamps as the Seven. Which, I think sound better than the VI.
Just wondering how can a two recorded channels machine can be considered to replace an eight recorded channels machine?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #78
Gear Head
 

I spoke too soon. I heard from a source that the Nagra VI was too me replaced this year to the Nagra Seven design to get rid of the switches and replace.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #79
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaBzg View Post
I think this will be a Nagra VI replacement and will remove all the switches to be more menu driven and carry the same preamps as the Seven. Which, I think sound better than the VI.
The Nagra seven has the same mic. pre-amps as the Nagra VI - and the Nagra VII is still only a 2-channel recorder which can not, in any way, replace an 8-channel recorder.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #80
Gear Head
 

The preamps are different and I said above I spoke too soon. Renee Is the source of both that the preamps are different and Nagra is coming out with a Nagra VI replacement.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #81
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Possibly when Sennheiser manage to produce the MKH 8030!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #82
Gear Nut
 
Simmosonic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaBzg View Post
The preamps are different and I said above I spoke too soon. Renee Is the source of both that the preamps are different and Nagra is coming out with a Nagra VI replacement.
I remember speaking with [name withheld just in case!] from Nagra when the Seven was first released. He told me it uses the same preamps as the VI but with a different limiter design that left a lot less limiter circuitry in the signal path. The implication was that the Seven’s input stage will sound as good as the VI’s and possibly better due to a slightly simpler signal path.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #83
Gear Head
 

The preamps sound different and better on the Seven, as it should, and Renee is correct.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #84
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The limiters on my VI have a featherlight touch compared to my Sonosax mixer
The mic amps are excellent already, never had a problem with them
Old 1 week ago
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
... (if a piece of high end hi-fi gear does not weigh a lot, then it is seen as being of lesser quality.) ...
As an aside, I can verify this observation. I have a 'component' DAB+ tuner , normal component size black case, about 1RU tall, feels quite 'substantial'. Inside, at the back a small switch-mode power supply, small display and controls on the front panel, and in the middle a 3" by 2" DAB pcb - and a 6-inch length of angle iron welded to the bottom panel - no doubt to give the product 'gravitas'. :o))

Now back to our scheduled program ....
Old 1 week ago
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaBzg View Post
The preamps sound different and better on the Seven, as it should, and Renee is correct.
You and your source are misinformed. The preamps on the VI and Seven are the same.

Please see my post above from 2014. I have this straight from the electronic designer's mouth. I was there when he told it to me in person. Then he showed it to me.
Old 1 week ago
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaBzg View Post
The preamps are different and I said above I spoke too soon. Renee Is the source of both that the preamps are different and Nagra is coming out with a Nagra VI replacement.
This is the first I've heard of a replacement for the VI. I was at Nagra's office in Paris last week and was told there is no plan for a replacement/revision of the VI. I was told the French office is considering a mixing surface unit for the VI, but there was no prototype and no final decision and no expected date of release.
Old 1 week ago
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
You and your source are misinformed. The preamps on the VI and Seven are the same.

Please see my post above from 2014. I have this straight from the electronic designer's mouth. I was there when he told it to me in person. Then he showed it to me.
Agreed - this is exactly what John Owens told me when the Seven came out.
Old 1 week ago
  #89
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I believe the limiters are different, aren't they? The VI has analog limiters, while the Seven has a new type of DSP-based limiter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
Agreed - this is exactly what John Owens told me when the Seven came out.
Old 6 days ago
  #90
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Looking back over this, I think it’s worth defining the preamp as being distinct from the limiter, with both forming the input.

When the Seven came out I was given the task of reviewing it for an Australian magazine. As part of the process, I spoke with JO and asked him if the Seven’s input circuitry was any different to the VI.

He told me that the Seven’s preamps were the same as the VI but the limiters were different, being a newer design that resulted in less circuitry in the signal path. The implication was that the Seven might sound a bit cleaner, but it was highly doubtful that the difference would be audible.
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