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OM1 - What's it about? Condenser Microphones
Old 21st May 2018
  #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Lovely sound...maybe the articulation 'runs away' a little bit in the big acoustic, was it a very large stone church or cathedral perhaps ?
Yes, big old church with big acoustic.
But I recorded many times this organ with cardios (MC930) and I really prefer what i hear this time with omnis.
Yes with the cardios, the articulation is clearer, but the balance between the different registers of the organ is not so good. The cardios exagerate the difference between the positiv and the great organ.
Then nothing replace the fullness of the sound with omnis
Old 22nd May 2018
  #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathieujm View Post
Yes, big old church with big acoustic.
But I recorded many times this organ with cardios (MC930) and I really prefer what i hear this time with omnis.
Yes with the cardios, the articulation is clearer, but the balance between the different registers of the organ is not so good. The cardios exagerate the difference between the positiv and the great organ.
Then nothing replace the fullness of the sound with omnis
Yes I fully agree with your choice...you lose too much with cardioids in this situation, while the omnis really transport my ears to the church itself ! Bravo
Old 22nd May 2018
  #423
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Peter Allison's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Lovely sound...maybe the articulation 'runs away' a little bit in the big acoustic, was it a very large stone church or cathedral perhaps ?

its a cathedral, organs are meant to sound a bit "washy"..... could be worse, St. Pauls in London?

Last edited by Peter Allison; 24th May 2018 at 01:30 PM..
Old 25th June 2018
  #424
Here for the gear
 

Figured I'd post a couple of examples I've recorded with the OM1's. These are all from student recitals and I am by no means an experienced engineer, just learning as I go.

The first track is from a Brass Trio with Trumpet, Horn, and Trombone. I set up OM1's in a spaced pair(either 30cm or 60cm, can't remember which though) and a set of NT5s in the center in ORTF. I am almost positive this is just the OM1s, but if the NT5s are there it's less than 10% for sure. Mics placed center of ensemble and about a foot above the musicians(they were sitting down) this wasn't intentional but they ended up getting lowered and I didn't notice before the recital started. Worked well on this track, not so much for the solo trombone stuff with the mic right in front of the bell.

The second track is Trombone, Cello, and Piano from the same recital. Same mic setup as before with the mics in the center, the trombone to the right, cello to the left, and piano behind the cello with the opening of the lid facing the center of the mic array.

The third track is of a Brass sextet. The set up was two OM1s in 60cm spaced pair, and two CM3s in a wide ORTF. CM3's were maybe 20% of the mix, MAYBE. Mics placed about 5 feet in front of the ensemble and about 5 feet above.

Side note: there was no sound check for the first two clips and barely a sound check for the last clip. No reverb or anything else has been added to the clips. There is a little EQ to try to tame the crazy HVAC in this hall. I think I tamed the upper frequencies, but not much more could be done about the lower frequencies without altering the tone of the trombone sound. Really wish we could turn that thing off for recording!

OM1 Clips
Old 25th June 2018
  #425
Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewharris065 View Post
There is a little EQ to try to tame the crazy HVAC in this hall. I think I tamed the upper frequencies, but not much more could be done about the lower frequencies without altering the tone of the trombone sound. Really wish we could turn that thing off for recording!
Thanks for sharing these clips. For fun, I applied a rather quick and cursory denoising to the Böhme Sextet using RX6, focusing on reducing only the broadband "noisy" components (i.e. as opposed to "tonal" noise) by about 8dB. Some of the most subtle nuances which decay into the ambience are smoothed over along with the HVAC being reduced, but I could imagine this treatment of your original (non-EQ'ed) recording to sound substantially cleaner. Sometimes I add a very small amount of carefully selected reverb to compensate for a little bit of the air being sucked out. It's not perfect, but I often find a subtle dose (most likely milder than this) more palatable than remedial EQ when the latter is negatively impacting desirable program material.

Dropbox - 3 Boehme Sextet RX.wav

Obviously, as you implied, an even better solution to iZotope RX is the much less aggressively marketed "iZotope If-At-All-Possible-Disengage-The-Building-HVAC-System"
Old 26th June 2018
  #426
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukedamrosch View Post
Thanks for sharing these clips. For fun, I applied a rather quick and cursory denoising to the Böhme Sextet using RX6, focusing on reducing only the broadband "noisy" components (i.e. as opposed to "tonal" noise) by about 8dB. Some of the most subtle nuances which decay into the ambience are smoothed over along with the HVAC being reduced, but I could imagine this treatment of your original (non-EQ'ed) recording to sound substantially cleaner. Sometimes I add a very small amount of carefully selected reverb to compensate for a little bit of the air being sucked out. It's not perfect, but I often find a subtle dose (most likely milder than this) more palatable than remedial EQ when the latter is negatively impacting desirable program material.

Dropbox - 3 Boehme Sextet RX.wav

Obviously, as you implied, an even better solution to iZotope RX is the much less aggressively marketed "iZotope If-At-All-Possible-Disengage-The-Building-HVAC-System"
Thanks man, I don't have RX6 yet but I will play around with the original a bit more with what I do have now that I hear that a difference definitely CAN be made without quality really suffering. Like I said, still learning the ropes. I'm in college for music and the campus has a concert hall and a recital hall. I have done pretty well recording in the concert hall which has little noise but everything done in the recital hall has made me work to get decent results. I swear it's gotten worse sine a year ago. Used to be a low rumble and now there is a steady hiss in the high frequencies. It's bad enough that people notice in person at a live performance. I guess it's a good lab environment though for me to figure things out.

Thanks again.
Old 11th July 2018
  #427
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jpgerard's Avatar
Given the circumstances, I'd say it went well... sometimes location recording is like that... you do your best before the event and cross your fingers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewharris065 View Post
Figured I'd post a couple of examples I've recorded with the OM1's. These are all from student recitals and I am by no means an experienced engineer, just learning as I go.

The first track is from a Brass Trio with Trumpet, Horn, and Trombone. I set up OM1's in a spaced pair(either 30cm or 60cm, can't remember which though) and a set of NT5s in the center in ORTF. I am almost positive this is just the OM1s, but if the NT5s are there it's less than 10% for sure. Mics placed center of ensemble and about a foot above the musicians(they were sitting down) this wasn't intentional but they ended up getting lowered and I didn't notice before the recital started. Worked well on this track, not so much for the solo trombone stuff with the mic right in front of the bell.

The second track is Trombone, Cello, and Piano from the same recital. Same mic setup as before with the mics in the center, the trombone to the right, cello to the left, and piano behind the cello with the opening of the lid facing the center of the mic array.

The third track is of a Brass sextet. The set up was two OM1s in 60cm spaced pair, and two CM3s in a wide ORTF. CM3's were maybe 20% of the mix, MAYBE. Mics placed about 5 feet in front of the ensemble and about 5 feet above.

Side note: there was no sound check for the first two clips and barely a sound check for the last clip. No reverb or anything else has been added to the clips. There is a little EQ to try to tame the crazy HVAC in this hall. I think I tamed the upper frequencies, but not much more could be done about the lower frequencies without altering the tone of the trombone sound. Really wish we could turn that thing off for recording!

OM1 Clips
Old 20th July 2018
  #428
Here for the gear
Organ with OM1

Long time lurker, first time poster and all that...

Just thought I'd share a quick 'n' dirty recording (from a live recital) I made with the OM1s. No EQ or any funny business, just some slight compression for the to keep the ffff bits at bay!

I say quick and dirty because i used my Zoom H4n, and the preamps are a bit noisy (but then so is the blower on this instrument). K&M 20800 + 21231 boom arm up at full extension (5m total height). OM1s at 35cm, pointing up towards the instrument and angled out slightly (±25°).

Image 1

Image 2

I'm reasonably happy with this (first time out with these mics on the big stand, first time recording this organ), but others may disagree.
Attached Files

01 - Dupre Prelude and Fugue in B.mp3 (13.53 MB, 1407 views)


Last edited by tenorfran; 20th July 2018 at 06:22 PM.. Reason: K&M numbers wrong!
Old 21st July 2018
  #429
Gear Nut
 
Peter Allison's Avatar
To my untrained ears, it came over as ok. I just record organs, and have a zoom H4 pro. How far away from the actual pipes?, I only ask, as I tend to be quite close, depending on the instrument of course
Old 21st July 2018
  #430
Gear Nut
 
Peter Allison's Avatar
very "quick and dirty", 99% of the hiss is from the leaking wind. not quite Truro, but the director of music there
Attached Files

9. Final. symphomy 6. Widor.mp3 (7.47 MB, 1237 views)

Old 21st July 2018
  #431
Here for the gear
I would estimate 10-15 metres away from most of the speaking pipes in the organ? Hard to tell given the diagonal.
Old 25th July 2018
  #432
Gear Head
 

Are there comparative recordings between om1 and at4022 pairs?
Old 25th July 2018
  #433
Gear Addict
 

I haven't used the OM 1 but have a pair of AT4022's. Based on what I've heard on the web my impression is that the OM 1 is a softer sound than the 4022. I compared the AT4022 against my friends Earthworks QTC40 on piano and was amazed at how similar they were. The Earthworks had faster transient response with very accurate tonal balance and the AT was a touch brighter but with great detail. Also compared the Shure KSM 141 in Omni and it was diffuse and flat by comparison to the other mics. I was very pleased with the results especially comparing the price.
Old 13th August 2018
  #434
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jpgerard's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sd270 View Post
I haven't used the OM 1 but have a pair of AT4022's. Based on what I've heard on the web my impression is that the OM 1 is a softer sound than the 4022. I compared the AT4022 against my friends Earthworks QTC40 on piano and was amazed at how similar they were. The Earthworks had faster transient response with very accurate tonal balance and the AT was a touch brighter but with great detail. Also compared the Shure KSM 141 in Omni and it was diffuse and flat by comparison to the other mics. I was very pleased with the results especially comparing the price.
The OM1 is more linear, so it can come out as "softer" but it's really because it has a flatter response. Which is useful or not depending on the situation of course. At the back of a large Church, an HF bump can be useful. For proximity recording, a flat response typically works best.
Old 23rd August 2018
  #435
Gear Maniac
 
Søren Bendixen's Avatar
Hello
moving into field recording, and stumbled on Line audio. Most everybody uses the Cm3, haven´t found any using Om1.
Anyone in here?

When I say field recording I aim at both ambience recordings, and more focused recording like recording a..camel or a car engine.

I like the overall sound of both mics (files from the net), but tend to favor Om1 for an excellent balance between source and surroundings.

I could get a pair og both...

btw: Really nice recordings in the thread and really nice conversations. Thanks

Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Old 23rd August 2018
  #436
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Søren Bendixen View Post
Hello
moving into field recording, and stumbled on Line audio. Most everybody uses the Cm3, haven´t found any using Om1.
Anyone in here?

When I say field recording I aim at both ambience recordings, and more focused recording like recording a..camel or a car engine.

I like the overall sound of both mics (files from the net), but tend to favor Om1 for an excellent balance between source and surroundings.

I could get a pair og both...

btw: Really nice recordings in the thread and really nice conversations. Thanks

Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Line Audio aren't the first mics that would come to mind for ambient or outside recording.....

I don't have any experience with field (ie outdoors) recording, but I do have a lot of indoors concert recording experience with both CM3 and OM1. The OM1 has a flat linear response, not the typical HF lift about 7-10k which diffuse field mics have....and which allow them to be used at a greater distance for the same detail pickup as flat response mics. I don't how/if this translates to outdoors recording, as there are likely to be be fewer reflective surfaces nearby to affect the response...there's no 'room' !

Depending on your recorder and mic preamps, the lower sensitivity and somewhat higher noise floor of the Line Audio mics, compared with more expensive alternatives like Sennheiser, Schoeps, and DPA, might compromise your recordings...but I don't know if you're going into this out of interest, as a hobbyist, or if you want maximum clarity and minimum noise...which will cost you a lot more money !

Also factor in the need for windscreening protection, from Rycote Cyclone or similar enclosures. Ideally you'd probably like to hire both pairs for a weekend to try them out, but I don't know if (maker) Roger Jonsson or JP Gerard/No Hype (retailer) are able to extend to such a service ?

I do know that if you simply bought one or both pairs and didn't like them...you would be able to sell them as 'minimally used' for very little loss of money...so perhaps that's the best option ?
Old 23rd August 2018
  #437
Gear Maniac
 
Søren Bendixen's Avatar
HI
It is not for hobby, I work with music for a living and will use my field recording professionally.
But in the field of field recording I am a newbie

I´ve bought myself a Sound devices Mixpre 6, and although some consider it prosumer gear I think the preamps are very very good. and that´s what matters to me the most.

People in the pro sound field community uses cm3 but yes they are considered sensitive so you need good pres and good wind protection..

Very interesting what you say about HF Lift. That could be the reason why a lot field recordist fancy Røde mics. Not to offend Røde mics, but I never liked the top end.
hmm..

And Schoeps (I really like the sound) and Sennheiser are just to much above my budget - well maybe not, but this time I try to move slowly into a new area (compared to: My second microphone ever was a Brauner Vm1...still have it though..)

But I see your point re. HF lift (somewhat re. low sensitivity/noisefloor)

I found the Lewitt LCT 540 S (and a blogpost about using it for field rec) but this goes off topic I think

Where I live (Jutland, Denmark) no body seems to have any of these mics so I rely on research.

Best regards
Søren
Old 23rd August 2018
  #438
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I don't have any experience with field (ie outdoors) recording, but I do have a lot of indoors concert recording experience with both CM3 and OM1. The OM1 has a flat linear response, not the typical HF lift about 7-10k which diffuse field mics have....and which allow them to be used at a greater distance for the same detail pickup as flat response mics. I don't how/if this translates to outdoors recording, as there are likely to be be fewer reflective surfaces nearby to affect the response...there's no 'room' !
That's good information to consider. I've done some field recording tests with my OM1 mics -- I have them set up on a stereo bar with two Rycote WS-10 blimps/windscreens, which are just the right size for these little mics. Each of the Rycote kits cost several times more than I paid for the mics, which is either amusing or pathetic depending on your perspective. I also have the CM3 mics which of course also work in these blimps and I've used those occasionally outside as well -- they're more sensitive to wind and you need both the blimp and the furry windscreen with the CM3. With the OM1 you can get by with just the blimp in gentle breezes.

I'm using a Sound Devices Mix-pre 6, which has quiet preamps and I haven't noticed any noise.

Having to carry around two blimps, even little ones like the Rycote 10, is awkward and if I had to do it over again I'd go for the single-blimp stereo solution but since I already had the CM3s and OM1s I decided to go with what I had. In one case when I was rushed I used a single OM1 in its blimp, handheld, for a mono recording -- not something I would normally do for ambience but in this case converting it to stereo resulted in an acceptable ambient recording for a video I'm working on. I might experiment with the delay-and-phase-inversion comb filtering trick for simulating stereo from mono recordings to see if that's a viable solution for when I need to pack light.
Old 23rd August 2018
  #439
Gear Maniac
 
Søren Bendixen's Avatar
good info and yes I have trouble accepting that the wind protection Is far more Expensive than what they are protecting...

I think the issue with/the information about HF is worth thinking about
Old 23rd August 2018
  #440
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Søren Bendixen View Post
good info and yes I have trouble accepting that the wind protection Is far more Expensive than what they are protecting...

I think the issue with/the information about HF is worth thinking about
Agree about the implications of the lack of HF bump; I hadn't considered that although I have nothing to compare these to. If I have time this weekend I can make and post some field recordings (I've deleted my tests except for the one I'm using in my video project, which is waves on a beach and not really a good example since you'd probably want to hear how they capture quieter and more distant sounds).

I went with the Rycote windscreen kits despite their higher price, but you really need a blimp, especially with the CM3s. The foam windscreens that come with these mics are only useful indoors; once you go outdoors you need serious wind protection. I also have a stereo pair of Earthworks QTC-30 omnis, which are too long for most blimps so I've never tried them outdoors; they are similarly flat.

What I like about the concept of using OM1s in the field is that they're so cheap I wouldn't care much if something happened to them, and they're easily replaced.
Old 23rd August 2018
  #441
Gear Maniac
 
Søren Bendixen's Avatar
oh that would be cool
I really try to go slow on this, not buying before I get the right feeling - and listening is very helpfull :-)

Yes I very much after capturing quiet stuff, distant stuff

BR
Søren
Old 23rd August 2018
  #442
Gear Addict
 

Don't record ambience myself but the AT4022 Omni is often used along with Sennheiser MKH Omni's and are highly regarded choices, both being very quiet with good noise numbers. Check out some sites that do nature recording.
Old 23rd August 2018
  #443
Gear Maniac
 
Søren Bendixen's Avatar
Yes I´ve listened to recordings (also ambience) made with At4022.
They don´t appear in matched pairs or stereo set up, but the certainly sound very good.
I have a AE3000, completely different beast, but very reliable and very cool for what it is supposed to do. my go to mic in many situations

I have a list of interesting microphones that could fit my budget
Line audio Om1 & Cm3
Se Electronics Se8
At4022
Lewitt LCT 540 S (a bit above for a stereo set..)

and also
Røde Nt55
Neumann Kh184

I try not high jack this thread, just mention what my head is full of..
Old 23rd August 2018
  #444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Søren Bendixen View Post
Yes I very much after capturing quiet stuff, distant stuff
I would echo studer58's comments above. I regularly use pairs of both OM1's and CM3's and, while I am a member of the chorus who sings their praises as excellent but affordable spot mics for recording acoustic music, the combination of both distant and quiet material which you mentioned above would probably show them at their weakest.

I'm sure you could get acceptable results, but if you are intending your field recordings for professional use, I'd suggest something with lower self-noise and which does not require such clean and high gain for best results on quiet sources.

That said, I'm sure you won't regret buying them and they will certainly be useful for many other things which may come up besides field recording.
Old 23rd August 2018
  #445
Gear Maniac
 
Søren Bendixen's Avatar
I tend to agree with you and studer58.
If It was only indoor I actually think they would really shine.
I really like their sound.
But no decision made yet...!

BR
Søren
Old 24th August 2018
  #446
Gear Maniac
 
Dr. Jule's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Søren Bendixen View Post
Hello
moving into field recording, and stumbled on Line audio. Most everybody uses the Cm3, haven´t found any using Om1.
Anyone in here?

When I say field recording I aim at both ambience recordings, and more focused recording like recording a..camel or a car engine.

I like the overall sound of both mics (files from the net), but tend to favor Om1 for an excellent balance between source and surroundings.

I could get a pair og both...

btw: Really nice recordings in the thread and really nice conversations. Thanks

Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Hey Søren,

a couple of thoughts on this.
I have both pairs sincs 4 years and used them in countless different applications. Music, ambience, indoor, outdoor, heat, wind, cold... Although I think the CM3 is overall the better microphone (the sound is "nicer", "faster", more "grit" and better definition, more uniform polar response) in your cenario I would go all the way with OM1. The lack of problems with wind and handling noise is worth a lot outdoors. And the noise floor is in my experience lower than typical outdoor noises like distant traffic, trees, wind etc. So no problem there for me.

Both mics are very, very sturdy and I never worry about them. Humidity never was a problem too. I have Schoeps, DPA and Neumann too, but I leave them at home for most outdoor stuff (even sometimes for indoor stuff if I need to take care about things other than my mics :-)

Hope that helps.
Old 24th August 2018
  #447
Gear Maniac
 
Søren Bendixen's Avatar
Augh!
It helps and confuses me..:-)

I try to persuade myself into not buying Line Audio, cause I´m worried about the "dullness" when recording distant
but the thing is when listening I really like the overall sound of the mics, favoring the Om1...

Do you have any recordings of outdoor stuff I can listen to?

Ive been wondering if a combo of the Se Electronics Se8 and the Line Audio Om1 will cover me.

also used together (got the mix pre 6 and can record 4 channels)
Old 24th August 2018
  #448
Gear Maniac
 

Also check out A Month of Field Recordists: Thomas Alf Holmemo | Creative Field Recording who has also done some field recording with OM1 and CM3 and recommends them. As promised, I will try to get out this weekend and make and post a few field recordings with the OM1s, most likely Sunday.
Old 24th August 2018
  #449
Gear Maniac
 
Søren Bendixen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh View Post
Also check out A Month of Field Recordists: Thomas Alf Holmemo | Creative Field Recording who has also done some field recording with OM1 and CM3 and recommends them. As promised, I will try to get out this weekend and make and post a few field recordings with the OM1s, most likely Sunday.
Yes - I just found him - reading.

and Thanks - I will not buy anything today, but late next weekend I need to
Old 28th August 2018
  #450
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Søren Bendixen View Post
Yes - I just found him - reading.

and Thanks - I will not buy anything today, but late next weekend I need to
Sorry I haven't been able to post any recordings yet; I was too busy on Saturday and it rained most of the day Sunday...and now it's the work week. But we live near a park and I might be able to get outside tomorrow or Wednesday morning for 45 minutes or so and if so I'll make some recordings and post so you have something to judge before you make your decision.
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