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Faulkner Arrays!
Old 15th March 2014
  #61
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But how Mr.Faulkner record a grand piano? An original Faulkner array?
Old 15th March 2014
  #62
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John Willett's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarterLiszt View Post
But how Mr.Faulkner record a grand piano? An original Faulkner array?


The "Faulkner Array" was developed for a recording in a church that had excellent reverberation along its length, but a horrible slap side-to-side - NOT for a piano.
Old 15th March 2014
  #63
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I think this is the confusion over the "Faulkner Array" whch is applied to two different arrays. FI is the parallel fig8's used to eliminate slap echo in that narrow church. FII is the omni's at 67cm angled out a bit with cards in the center also angled out a bit. The ration between the mics can be varied to effect some sort of zoom effect. Excuse me that I cannot post the exact angles and separation. But be aware that we all need be more precise when talking about a "Faulkner Array."
Old 16th March 2014
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post


The "Faulkner Array" was developed for a recording in a church that had excellent reverberation along its length, but a horrible slap side-to-side - NOT for a piano.
very appreciate of your reply, but I really want to know how Mr.Faulkner record a piano
Old 16th March 2014
  #65
0VU
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarterLiszt View Post


very appreciate of your reply, but I really want to know how Mr.Faulkner record a piano
You might want to try PMing TonyF on here. If anyone can answer your question, he can. If he's around. He's usually quite busy and not here very often.

In the meantime, and bear in mind that this is one piano recording in one specific set of circumstances so in no way suggests that this is the only way in which Mr Faulkner records a piano, you could have a look at:





I don't know whether the three pairs were for comparison, to achieve a specific effect, or were mixed for the final balance - perhaps TonyF might comment if he spots this when passing through with a minute to spare. Of course, there may be other mics, not shown in the pics but knowing his preference to get a balance from the right mics in the right places rather than 30 mics in the wrong places, I doubt it.
Old 16th March 2014
  #66
Some photos from Tonys sessions:
Attached Thumbnails
Faulkner Arrays!-image_2781.jpg   Faulkner Arrays!-image_960.jpg   Faulkner Arrays!-image_4006.jpg  
Old 16th March 2014
  #67
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Larry Elliott's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarterLiszt View Post


very appreciate of your reply, but I really want to know how Mr.Faulkner record a piano
I have a pic of him using a pair of AEA ribbons.

As 0VU said, different pianos in different rooms and different repertoire call for different approaches.
Old 16th March 2014
  #68
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I think the question should be "how would Mr. Faulkner mic this piano in this space in this situation." He seems to think these things through deeply.
Old 16th March 2014
  #69
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Larry Elliott's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post
I think the question should be "how would Mr. Faulkner mic this piano in this space in this situation." He seems to think these things through deeply.
Exactly
Old 17th March 2014
  #70
From a Mix Guides article:

"Esteemed British engineer Tony Faulkner has recorded hundreds of albums of (mostly classical) piano music through the years: solo, in small ensembles, piano concertos with orchestra; just about every conceivable variation. He shared some of his thoughts on different aspects of piano recording:

“I have two favorite mics I use for piano. For most classical recording, I'll use the Neumann M50c, which is one of the wonderful old tube Neumanns, as my main mics. But if I want a closer pickup for jazz or something, I like to use ribbons. I have some old RCA-type 44s made by AEA in California that are fantastic. The problem I have with modern transistor mics is, particularly when you go close on a piano, they sort of spit at you and rattle, and it's a rather ugly sound. It's like seeing too much nasal hair on a photograph; it's not what you want on a close-up. But ribbons have such incredibly low distortion, and because of the pattern, you can get a very present sound that you can actually recognize as something warm and friendly, and it doesn't squeak and scratch and spit at you.

“I don't really like the sound you get putting mics inside a piano,” he continues. “A piano, particularly something like a Steinway with the lid up, was really designed to project in a place like Carnegie Hall. And if you have something designed to make a big noise in a big space, going in close usually doesn't sound quite right to me. The problem with close-miking is where are you going to put the [mics] without highlighting certain parts of the piano? You also tend to get a little more of the mechanics: the action noise, the popping up and down; not everyone wants to hear that, and it also makes the piano a much more percussive instrument. I like my sound to have some space from the room in it, and, of course, in classical music, we're often recording in concert halls or very large studios.”

So where does he put the mics? “Well, it depends. You might want to put the mics in the arc of how the lid of the piano is projecting the sound of the piano into the hall. You might come back eight to 10 feet with a pair and catch the sound there. Or, if you go down to the bottom end and look under the lid, you'll see three lines of the frame casting. If you align a pair of mics to look down the middle one — one in from the one closest to the back angled about 15 degrees — place one mic to the left and one to the right and come back three or four feet. That can make quite a nice stereo effect and can give you a different clear and weighty perspective than putting the mics at the front. It's a matter of taste.

“Piano concertos are difficult because if you just put up a couple of overall mics for everything, as you might for an orchestra, the piano can either overwhelm the other instruments or become too much a part of the overall sound and lack distinctness,” he says. “You have to be careful to put the mics someplace where there's the right proportion of each; it's quite difficult. Then, if you take the lid off the piano to boost it, sometimes the room becomes too resonant and the sound goes all over the place. How I would deal with that is I'd use the M-50s for the orchestral pickup and probably have something like a pair of my [Neumann] M269s for my piano, and you just use enough of that.”

Faulkner's preamp of choice is “Tim de Paravacini's EAR [Esoteric Audio Research] tube. Tim's a brilliant man and he's very special, in that he's got some experience in recording and professional broadcasting, and the gear he makes is not only very good-sounding, but it tends to last a long time and doesn't fall to pieces on the road. It's incredibly robust and well-made. That preamp has lots of head room and bottom end; he's paid a lot of attention to bandwidth.”

On changes in recording piano: “When you did a record with a pianist 30 years ago, chances are he'd done a concert of the music two or three nights before the session, and he came in expecting to do a complete take of the first movement of the first piece. He'd come in and listen to it, have a cup of tea and go back and do another complete take of it, and if there was something very specific that he didn't like, he might cover a page of music where there was trill in the music he didn't quite get right, or whatever. But that would be the basis of the editing: a complete performance with a couple of small substitutions. There are many artists now — the next generation along — who may have done more recording than concerts and they're used to the idea of doing a complete take of the movement, but then they'll go back and play it maybe eight or 10 bars at a time, and then it becomes a creative process in which the producer, the artist and the editor make it something new rather than a slightly embellished version of a performance. I'm more used to the first approach, mainly because I think that's how you make the best records of classical music. But if you're doing film scores or something like that, you can't expect these guys to learn every piece the week before, because chances are, it's still being written when they arrive in the studio!”
Old 17th March 2014
  #71
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wow~thats very kind of you all, thank you so much!!
Old 15th April 2014
  #72
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Don S's Avatar
 

I just gave the Falkner array a try with an early music ensemble. I know Tony was presenting for a solution for a large orchestra, but I wanted to see how it would sound with a smaller group. I added omnis (40 cm toed out) to a modified ORTF (14 inches) of MK21's. The omnis added some pull and aslo low end to the theorbo. This is just a main array with spots on the harpsichord (line audio CM3).
Attached Files

06 Track 06 2.mp3 (3.02 MB, 2077 views)

Old 18th April 2018
  #73
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rojaros's Avatar
I know this is an old thread, but I was interested and inspired to briefly check it out on a 7 String flamenco guitar guitar (goes down to low B below E6 of a usual guitar).

Here are the results. Tell me what you think, please...

Samar VL37 Faulkner against Neumann UMS69 XY on guitar

or directly to Dropbox:

2018_04_18_Faulkner_test
Old 18th April 2018
  #74
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rojaros's Avatar
New files with improved balance uploaded...
Old 28th January 2019
  #75
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenor39 View Post
Pic's from Friday night in St. John's Cathedral, Denver, using both variations of Tony's Phased Arrays. I've had a very nice e-mail conversation with him over the last 2 weeks.

The 4 mic is on a 80cm bar, with (2) DPA 4003 omni's w/40mm APE's @ 67cm and (2) 4012 cardioids in ORTF @ 110deg./17cm. The parallel array has 2 sets of ribbon mic's on it @ 20cm spacing for comparison: The Superlux R102 mkII active ribbon (1.8 micron, active out to 18Khz) and the Recording Tools MRP-01 (also 1.8 micron, but passive to 18Khz). I will post clips after mix down for comparison.
I keep looking at the picture with the ribbon mics and looking at my Rode space bar (SB-20), which is up to 20cm, and thinking that the SB-20 seems much smaller than the distance you have on that bar... I believe what you said (and really liked the sound samples), but I can't help thinking there's something "wrong" with my space bar... I guess it's just a function of the photo?

In any case, I'd been considering buying a ribbon mic for a long time (I mostly record violin/viola), and the MRP-01 sounds interesting, although I'd probably have to complement it with a FETHead, as I don't have a good preamp... Do you still have it? Did you find necessary to do any mods to it?

Thanks for your time!
Old 1st February 2019
  #76
Gear Addict
IIRC 'Tenor39' has left, his Faulkner array looks like 40cm wide to me [= 2x20cm]
Also, more MRP01 samples are on this forum.
Old 1st February 2019
  #77
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by heva View Post
IIRC 'Tenor39' has left, his Faulkner array looks like 40cm wide to me [= 2x20cm]
Also, more MRP01 samples are on this forum.
Thanks!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenor39 View Post
Ok, here's the first mixdown (no processing) of an excerpt from the Britten Rejoice in the Lamb in the Cathedral. I used the 4 mic array, with the 4003's down by 3.5dB, and the MRP-01 ribbons in the parallel figure-8 array 1.2dB down. No soloist mic or Superlux ribbons. The Recording Tools MRP-01 has great low end response - almost as good as my 4003 omni's! Listen to the pedal notes. Those inexpensive ribbons have balls!

I can post this clip with just the 4 mic array or just the figure-8 array (one pair at a time).

I was at least 4m back with the 4 mic array and 8m with the figure-8. Now that I hear it, I could have been another 2-3m back with the front array, but I was already behind the conductor's platform and 4 rows into the pews. The riser arrangement was odd, in that because of the limited space they were layed out in an open "V" rather than a semi-circle. This accounts for the more drastic left/right spread of the choir.
I wonder if the MRP-01 is actually the same mic as the 'guitar amp-intended' CAD D82 ? Modern pipeorgan
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