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Portable Recorder - Location Recording Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 12th June 2006
  #31
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petsematary's Avatar
 

I think Marantzes rule but the pre's suck so if you buy a Marantz from Oade Bros. with the basic mod, you should get amazing value for money. I own a PMD660 myself but unfortunately not a modded one as they do not sell overseas. But I love me old PMD anyway even though the sound clips of the mod version sound way better than the stock.

I use that recorder with an AKG C520 (I think that's the model number anyway, not sure) stereo mic and get great results. Your DPA's would probably be as good or even better than that so - fire away.

Oh, and get a good mic fur cover and a boom.
Old 12th June 2006
  #32
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jwh1192's Avatar
mothra design ...

the PD4 is easy to use ... even a caveman could work one ...

:( sorry
Old 12th June 2006
  #33
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

If you want it modded, let me know. I am a US Soldier in Germany and always help my European friends out with these sorts of things. I still have a US based address(even though it is here in Europe) so OAde sells to me. Ive done this countless times for German friends and others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by petsematary
I think Marantzes rule but the pre's suck so if you buy a Marantz from Oade Bros. with the basic mod, you should get amazing value for money. I own a PMD660 myself but unfortunately not a modded one as they do not sell overseas. But I love me old PMD anyway even though the sound clips of the mod version sound way better than the stock.

I use that recorder with an AKG C520 (I think that's the model number anyway, not sure) stereo mic and get great results. Your DPA's would probably be as good or even better than that so - fire away.

Oh, and get a good mic fur cover and a boom.
Old 14th June 2006
  #34
Gear Maniac
 

many times thanks. I just discovered this board this year, prodigy pro, and now taperssection.

you people are the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.RayBullard
check out reviews at www.taperssection.com

REviews are lukewarm, and most recently, tales of an exploding microtracker have been making headlines. Theres a search bar on ts.com, type in Microtracker and youll see MANY MANY reviews..

Id either go with the R-1 or R-09 from edirol if it were me...
Old 15th June 2006
  #35
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petsematary's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.RayBullard
If you want it modded, let me know. I am a US Soldier in Germany and always help my European friends out with these sorts of things. I still have a US based address(even though it is here in Europe) so OAde sells to me. Ive done this countless times for German friends and others.
Oooohh, very interesting indeed! Thanks for the tip. thumbsup
Old 21st March 2007
  #36
Gear Nut
 

Nagra vs. Sound Devices

Hey all,

Sorry to dig up the dead, but:

Does anything make the Nagra V better than the Sound Devices 744t (or 722)? I can't believe that that Nagra costs several thousand dollars more. There must be a reason why, but I cannot spot it (other than coming from a Euro manufacturer).
Old 21st March 2007
  #37
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Plush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch Manger View Post
Hey all,

Sorry to dig up the dead, but:

Does anything make the Nagra V better than the Sound Devices 744t (or 722)? I can't believe that that Nagra costs several thousand dollars more. There must be a reason why, but I cannot spot it (other than coming from a Euro manufacturer).
Yes! the Nagra is better. The Nagra is excelling in the superb analog sections (in/out,) converters, reliability and it's Swiss. The Nagra has the reputation, the Sound Devices does not.

The Nagra is a Nagra is a Nagra. . .
Old 21st March 2007
  #38
do you have to carry the rig in a bag? most location film work that i have done in the past has required me to be quite mobile and johnny on the spot with the gear. it sounds like you will not be doing production work, though?

bag / harness solutions sort of rule out computer interfaces, unless you are going to use something like the Sony VGN-UX or OQO 002 as your computer.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/_3Cw...ters_UX_Series
http://www.oqo.com/products/index.html

i've had the pleasure of using the Apogee Mini-Me (just as a preamp and as an A/D) and the Sound Devices 744t. Both were great little units although I didn't like the Pre's so much on the Apogee, although it might have been a gain issue we were having from an incorrect jumper setting or calibration on the board. My biggest complaint with the Apogee, is that if I did want to use it with an ultraportable computer, it does not support buss powere either USB or the new Firewire interface. I can understand USB doesn't supply a lot of power, but firewire supplies more power than their wall wart power supply! I think Apogee dropped the ball on this one. i know, just 1 more battery, but I already carry around enough crap and would rather have had buss power. Sound Devices was great. you can use analog input on 2 channels and digital input on the other 2 channels, as long as you patch them to different tracks... no mixing. but the setup offers pretty much unlimited options as far as the routing goes. i do need to get myself a portable rig soon. i'm holding out to see if the upcoming Mac ultraportable is going to be a palmtop computer (lending itself well to location work) or if it is simply a small laptop, like the 12" PB... which would be nearly useless to me. if this is the case and it happens to have an optical digital input, like the other Mac portables, I would probably go with the Grace Design Lunatec V3.
http://www.gracedesign.com/products/V3/lunatecV3.htm
if no digital input, probably the MH ULN2 - its small enough to throw into a chest mount rig or bag, but just barely.
otherwise the 744T or 722T... might need to synch the sound to time code some day.

i looked at the Nagra for about 5 seconds... sure it has the street cred of those that have been around the tape players, but i'd take a 744t over the nagra any day

if you can really afford it, the shiznit is the Aaton Cantar-X
http://www.aaton.com/products/sound/cantar/index.php
Old 21st March 2007
  #39
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MBishopSFX's Avatar
 

Check out the Korg MR-1000. 44.1 to 192 k pcm - and DSD at 2.8 & 5.6 MHz. Built-in 40 gig drive. Runs on (8) AAs or power supply. 48v phantom. USB interface.

I used it briefly this past weekend and it performed very well. The mic preamp was fairly quiet with the sources I had.
Old 21st March 2007
  #40
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MichaelPatrick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch Manger View Post
I can't believe that that Nagra costs several thousand dollars more.

I can't either. The 744T is an awesome device. I use it with a Grace V3 and I'd love to know from people who've used the SD and Nagra what the sonic difference is.

Last edited by MichaelPatrick; 21st March 2007 at 01:29 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 21st March 2007
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Yes! the Nagra is better. The Nagra is excelling in the superb analog sections (in/out,) converters, reliability and it's Swiss. The Nagra has the reputation, the Sound Devices does not.

The Nagra is a Nagra is a Nagra. . .
Owning both the Nagra V and the Sound Devices 442 Mixer, I can confirm that the Nagra pres are noticeably better.
Old 21st March 2007
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
Owning both the Nagra V and the Sound Devices 442 Mixer, I can confirm that the Nagra pres are noticeably better.
I'm inclined to believe that the Nagra does have a sweet analog section, but a proper test would be a 744T vs a Nagra V. perhaps someone can arrange a WAV shootout? it sounds like you are comparing the built in Nagra V pres vs the 442 being used as a mixer / preamp in front of the Nagra?, unless I misunderstand, which is not a fair test as the signal chain is not relevant to comparing the recorders.
Old 21st March 2007
  #43
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Plush's Avatar
TSVisser wrote:, "if you can really afford it, the shiznit is the Aaton Cantar-X"

Come on, dude! You're just looking at pictures! Cantar is pretty cool with good features (some never implemented.) However, it won't be produced for too long because there have been so few sales of the machine.

The Nagra is real.
The Sound Devices is real but too small in my opinion.

We will never change from Nagra.
Old 21st March 2007
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsvisser View Post
I'm inclined to believe that the Nagra does have a sweet analog section, but a proper test would be a 744T vs a Nagra V. perhaps someone can arrange a WAV shootout? it sounds like you are comparing the built in Nagra V pres vs the 442 being used as a mixer / preamp in front of the Nagra?, unless I misunderstand, which is not a fair test as the signal chain is not relevant to comparing the recorders.
Comparison was same pair of mics into Nagra V vs mics into 442 and then into Line input of Nagra. The difference is significant. I consider this a valid test of the mic preamps. Its not much of a mixer if the mixing degrades the sound that much. The 442 contains Sound Devices best preamps. They are very good for a portable device, just not as sweet as the Nagra V.
Old 22nd March 2007
  #45
Gear Nut
 

[QUOTE=Plush;1191722]T
Come on, dude! You're just looking at pictures! Cantar is pretty cool with good features (some never implemented.) However, it won't be produced for too long because there have been so few sales of the machine.

The Cantar is widely used in Europe and I haven't heard anything that would point towards your conclusions...? I'm also a bit puzzled by your comment, that some features were never implemented. Which features are you talking about here?

curios, Karl

Karl Lohninger
Los Angeles
audio etc.
Old 22nd March 2007
  #46
yeah, you called me out... i am just looking at pictures. as soon as i found out the price, i pretty much had to dismiss it... and believe me, i called friends in europe to see if the pricing was significantly different over there.

i'm still holding out for the new miniature Mac computer... if it is a palmtop with a digital input, will probably be getting that with a Grace Lunatec V3. i'm just not that rich, yet.
Old 22nd March 2007
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
Owning both the Nagra V and the Sound Devices 442 Mixer, I can confirm that the Nagra pres are noticeably better.
I feel it is important to point out that the pres in the 7-series are a new design; they are not the same as those used in SD's mixers:

http://www.sounddevices.com/tech/7-faq.htm

I would be interested in hearing any accounts comparing the actual 7-series recorders to the Nagra...

best regards,
Aaron
Old 22nd March 2007
  #48
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Plush's Avatar
Karl_Lohninger wrote: "The Cantar is widely used in Europe and I haven't heard anything that would point towards your conclusions...? I'm also a bit puzzled by your comment, that some features were never implemented. Which features are you talking about here?"

The Cantar is a beautiful beast. It has features no one asked for and is complex beyond
reason. It is French and wonderful, but esoteric and of limited interest.

I beg to differ that the Cantar is widely used. "Widely used" to me means hundreds or thousands of units (like a Nagra IV-S or Nagra III.) Cantar's production is in the "tens" of units. Wireless control, software update this and that in order to be able to control the box from my pda????---give me a break!

Le "creation incroyable" de Grenoble, il est un fantasie. Plus de clients est aussi un fantasie.
Old 22nd March 2007
  #49
Gear Nut
 

Plush, the Cantar's target audience is 'location sound'. This is a very small market by itself and inside this market, the Cantar is widely used. The Cantar is manufactured by Aaton in Grenoble, as you know. This company also manufactures S16mm and 35mm film cameras - also widely used in their field.......;-)

The Cantar has lots of features that will do nothing for folks recording concerts or whatever classical, acoustical or other music performances. But these features do a lot for production sound mixers, meaning film production sound mixers. You might not be familiar with the challenges that come with recording for film and why a wireless pda connection to the Cantar often is exactly what you'd wish for. Aaton didn't invent that because they're French.

Again, I don't know of 'one' feature that was announced and then not implemented. Aaton tends to be one of the companies not playing these kind of marketing game - but I'm still curious of which features you speak.

The Nagra tape recorder series in its time was practically the only game in town. I actually used my IV-STC on a 'period' feature last year. I love it, but, in the film world, its days are over.

I estimate (and really that's my personal estimate) that there are about 400 Cantars in use. Again, for the niche I'm talking about, this means, they are widely in use. Your estimate that there might be 'tens' of machines in use is pretty far off. Maybe you meant the number used in concert halls?

To make things even more clearer, there are only very few machines out there usable for film location sound recording, the Fostex PD6 (not available anymore), the DEVA (probably the same numbers in use as the Cantar, that is 'widely' also), the Sounddevices series, the 744T, definitely widely in use, restricted to 4 tracks only, but costing arms and legs less than a Cantar or a DEVA, and then there's the HHB PortaDrive, a machine a heard good things about, but one that is not so widely used.

Monsieur Plush, vous avez besoin de plus de sommeil.


amicalement, Karl Lohninger
Los Angeles
Old 22nd March 2007
  #50
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Plush's Avatar
Very good summary, Karl.

It's true that I was talking about music recording with a Cantar.

I am an ex Kudelski and ex Stellavox sales freak, so you see where my background and loyalty lies. For film dialog recording watch Nagra hit the market with a multi-track.

Good job with the Cantar. I gather that maybe you are in sales for Aaton??

I'm in the dusty old classical recording business here ( Grammy 2007) and
we have very fancy digital here for fussy fussy classical clientele (and for days when I'm fussy!!)

Still, the best sound in house is a Stellavox SM-8 from 1986.

"If it was good then, it's still good now."
Old 22nd March 2007
  #51
Gear Nut
 

Don't get me wrong - if it'd be my choice I'd run my Nagra every day and I have enough tape stock for that too. Doesn't have the frequency response than all the what have you, but nevertheless sounds smoother than.....that's for me being in sales for Aaton;-) What I appreciate Aaton is doing is that they're willing to leave conventions behind - that works for some and doesn't for others. They took a lot of cues from the Kudelski machines.

The Nagra actually was killed by the DAT machines (Fostex and HHB). They always sounded harsh and I never liked them a bit - besides you'd have to have at least 2 of those (I had three) just because they could (and did) drop dead any minute. The real reason they'd take over was that it made post production cheaper. Telecine companies didn't have to have the Nagra T anymore and with the onslought of non linear editing every better editing bay would have a DAT machine. Nobody cared about sound quality.

The newer digital hard drive recorders (the one I mentioned incl. the Cantar) are of course way better than all of them DAT machines - bringing about another terrible side effect by having now up to 10 tracks available: that is the sound mixer isn't asked to mix the sound anymore - no, just put a wireless lav (great microphones LOL) on every actor in the scene and split them up on each track - voila! Rant over;-)

Karl Lohninger
midnight oil films
Los Angeles
Old 19th April 2007
  #52
Gear Nut
 

Sorry to dig up the thread again.

Still wondering if anyone has direct comparison experience between the Nagra V and the Sound Devices 7xx series, which someone said above has different pres than the 4xx mixers, and can give their opinion. I'm not in film production, but think the 4 tracks (of the 744t) would be handy in case I do expand to some kind of surround deal in the future or want individual sources miked/tracked separately from the main stereo.
Old 19th April 2007
  #53
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MichaelPatrick's Avatar
 

yes you can mix n match

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosrite View Post
Anyone here happen to know if you can combine the digital inputs of the Sound Devices 744 with its analogue inputs simultaneously?
I use a 744T with a Grace V3 battery powered preamp all the time. You can use both analog and digital inputs simultaneously, but only in pairs: Channels 1&2 set to A or D and Channels 3&4 set to A or D.
Old 2nd May 2007
  #54
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sonidista's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
TSVisser wrote:, "if you can really afford it, the shiznit is the Aaton Cantar-X"

Come on, dude! You're just looking at pictures! Cantar is pretty cool with good features (some never implemented.) However, it won't be produced for too long because there have been so few sales of the machine.

The Nagra is real.
The Sound Devices is real but too small in my opinion.

We will never change from Nagra.
I have worked with the Cantar and I must say that I'm quite sure there is nothing as solid and reliable as it. You can drop it in desert sand and it'll still work like a charm. And I reckon almost every production sound equipment rental - at least over here in Germany - has one...
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