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"Ringing" mics at the 2012 Oscars? Noise Reduction & Restoration Plugins
Old 27th February 2012
  #31
Lives for gear
Depends on what you were paying for I spose
So many codecs,who could say.

Andy Nelson ,ex BBC dubbing mixer ,was up for his 16 th nomination for 'War Horse'.
Stuart Wilson was production Recordist, another colleague

John Midgley Prod Rec, got it for 'Hugo',he's ex beeb and did last years 'Kings Speech'.
Well done.
Old 27th February 2012
  #32
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGuyintheBack View Post
It sounds like some digital conversion issue. My wife is also complaining.
Yep. Sounded like jitter to me.
Old 27th February 2012
  #33
The ringing is the resonance created inside the empty heads of vapid Hollywood entertainers that think they have something to say without a script.
Old 27th February 2012
  #34
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
The ringing is the resonance created inside the empty heads of vapid Hollywood entertainers that think they have something to say without a script.
LOL!
Old 27th February 2012
  #35
Gear Head
 
alvinphoto&sound's Avatar
 

The 21st century is the century of quantity and not quality...

That noise didn't seem to be that obvious or heard as much or at all except when audio from the mics in the room played, almost as if the sound coming from the videos played back in the room was from a different source not having the same issue.
if it wasn't heard in the room, then it was definitely caused somewhere along the way after the FOH mix, maybe the broadcast mix had a different source for the projected videos than the one from the room mics.
Sounded like what most of you mentioned, like some sort of clocking issue, or sample rate mismatch, something along those lines rather than some feedback suppression or noise gate (which could have possibly caused this if it was in the broadcast chain after the FOH mix). Anyways, there are way too many steps and gear and processing involved before the sound from the room reaches the TV set, I personally just wondered why it wasn't corrected in time during breaks.
Old 28th February 2012
  #36
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Ironbird Studios's Avatar
 

I found this comment today on Gizmodo. It might explain something. Some sort of real-time noise reduction on the live mics:

What the Hell Is That Weird Noise at the Oscars?

If that description is accurate, it was the really wrong choice. The audience would obviously prefer hearing ambient theater noise instead of the annoying ringing. I can't believe they didn't bypass the NR as soon as they noticed how bad it was. In theory, they never had the opportunity to test it accurately until the theater was full with people.

Search #YoOscarsSoundGuy on twitter for some funny tweets.

Angelo
Old 28th February 2012
  #37
Gear interested
 

I am so glad I found this thread.....I thought I was going nuts last night at this irritating sound. I first thought someones cell phone in the audience was ringing. It was actually making me nauseous. After the first hour, I called a friend to ask if she was hearing it as well (she didn't). Now I can prove to her that I am not crazy! Thanks!!
Old 28th February 2012
  #38
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iluvatar's Avatar
 

That didn't sound like any sort of noise reduction I'd ever heard, and that doesn't explain why it was on some of the commercials. I don't know what you guys think of the live engineers who handle these sorts of gigs, but they are not stone-deaf chumps, nor are the people in the audience. If that noise has been audible in the house, LOTS of people in that theater would have raised holy hell. Hell, I would've gotten fired from a bar gig for sound like that - no way was that in the house.

-Dan.
Old 28th February 2012
  #39
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huub's Avatar
I haven't heard it, but according to the Gizmodo piece, it was a Cedar DNS unit, used to reduce the room reverb. If you overdo that, it sounds like a constant squeeky warbly sound accompanying all speech.
Old 28th February 2012
  #40
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I was aware of the Cedaring but the warbling was not evident on my feed
Downton Abbey must be Cedared does that warble on TX?
Old 28th February 2012
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
I haven't heard it, but according to the Gizmodo piece, it was a Cedar DNS unit, used to reduce the room reverb. If you overdo that, it sounds like a constant squeeky warbly sound accompanying all speech.
Definitely NOT CEDAR since it present in Jimmy Kimel as well (also the fact that not everyone was getting the noise). This would indicate something in the transmission path. Something difficult to diagnose and fix in the middle of a live broadcast. Still waiting for someone to chime in with some inside info.
Old 29th February 2012
  #42
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rmx16's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
The ringing is the resonance created inside the empty heads of vapid Hollywood entertainers that think they have something to say without a script.
LMFAO!!!
Old 1st March 2012
  #43
Gear maniac
 

Hello,

It definitely was not heard in the broadcast truck, and the confidence returns from NY and KABC did not sound that way either. Forensics are proceeding to determine where it occurred. Some areas heard the broadcast artifact-free.
Can't say anymore at this time, the witch hunt is legendary. First rule of television - establish blame.
Hugh
Old 1st March 2012
  #44
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12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HughH View Post

Can't say anymore at this time, the witch hunt is legendary. First rule of television - establish blame.
If tradition is followed, they will sack the engineer who told them it would happen when they did whatever it was that caused the problem.
.
Old 2nd March 2012
  #45
Registered User
 

The feedback was so minor that it was almost certainly not heard in the house. That leads me to believe that there was no communication between broadcast world and FOH/monitors, which would be surprising for a show of this caliber. My wife said she heard some kind of "weird noise" that wasn't feedback, but I really wasn't watching it too closely and didn't even care enough to listen for it. I know we as sound engineers are the worst critics for sound at these types of events, but feedback is unacceptable no matter way. It was the same frequency the entire night. Anyone ever heard of a graphic? And for our wives to be pointing it out...
Old 2nd March 2012
  #46
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Criminy sakes! The first Oscar broadcast was on MY BIRTHDAY in 1953 (I was negative two years old!). They have had almost SIX DECADES to work out the kinks. They probably had better audio in the '50s with their RCA 77DXs than they have now. This is A-B-f'kin-C, man, the network that used to do Lawrence Welk and The Hollywood Palace LIVE each and every week using -- get this now -- analog!!! Have the networks really declined this far? This is just shameful.
Old 2nd March 2012
  #47
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springer's Avatar
 

As I watched on my puny regular cathode ray TV. I noticed that the dialogue was noticeably much lower than the music. I wondered if they were focused on mixing the show for 5.1 and forgot about checking in mono???
Anyone else notice this? Of course not, I am the only one left with 1)a land line, 2)old TV, and 3)actual stereo listening room. Yikes where's my walker...
Old 12th March 2012
  #48
Gear maniac
 

Hello,

Finally we are able to say something, sorry for the wait.

ABC engineering has determined that a Nielsen box used in the network transmission path created the conditions for the audio artifacts. These boxes insert audio watermarking into the programming to facilitate tracking. They are supposed to be "sub-audible" data tones but due to some phase anomalies in the signal the devices mistracked enough such that the tones were noticeable under certain circumstances due to downstream devices.

This does not answer two questions we are still pursuing - what caused the phase anomalies in the signal, and why in some distribution chains the tones were seemingly not audible.

Disclaimer - I am not associated with ABC. I was involved in the telecast, I have been involved in the forensics to an extent, and was told Monday was the earliest this information could be posted.

Hugh
Old 13th March 2012
  #49
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Thank you for posting this important information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HughH View Post
Hello,

Finally we are able to say something, sorry for the wait.

ABC engineering has determined that a Nielsen box used in the network transmission path created the conditions for the audio artifacts. These boxes insert audio watermarking into the programming to facilitate tracking. They are supposed to be "sub-audible" data tones but due to some phase anomalies in the signal the devices mistracked enough such that the tones were noticeable under certain circumstances due to downstream devices.

This does not answer two questions we are still pursuing - what caused the phase anomalies in the signal, and why in some distribution chains the tones were seemingly not audible.

Disclaimer - I am not associated with ABC. I was involved in the telecast, I have been involved in the forensics to an extent, and was told Monday was the earliest this information could be posted.

Hugh
Old 13th March 2012
  #50
drake.ch
 

Why do they want to watermark broadcast audio?

I understand the application for pre release music given to journalists or djs.
Old 13th March 2012
  #51
Gear maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimdrake View Post
Why do they want to watermark broadcast audio?
...

Almost all television in the US has watermarking inserted for tracking. That's how they determine ratings.

Hugh
Old 14th March 2012
  #52
drake.ch
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HughH View Post
Almost all television in the US has watermarking inserted for tracking. That's how they determine ratings.

Hugh
I don't get it?

Gathering ratings still relies on placing hardware in volunteers homes? No?

Why use watermarking when you can use the metadata in the broadcast?

Does seem interesting though this idea of having an ipad sync with watermarks though!
Old 14th March 2012
  #53
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ABC should use this device on their New Year's Eve specials. Then they would really be ringing in the new year.

They never had this problem on the Welk show.
Old 14th March 2012
  #54
Gear Head
 
alvinphoto&sound's Avatar
 

What was peculiar though was that this phenomenon was mostly and almost only heard accompanying microphones from the room sources (including live music), but not heard when they were showing videos and playbacks.
Would it be maybe because as someone above mentioned that the microphones weren't as loud as those playbacks ? and I guess if this digital artifact phenomenon was present then as well, and me not being able to notice it must have been because those videos and projections were louder enough to mask that phenomenon.
Old 14th March 2012
  #55
Gear maniac
 

Hello,

Quote:
I don't get it?

Gathering ratings still relies on placing hardware in volunteers homes? No?

Why use watermarking when you can use the metadata in the broadcast?

Time shifting. Many programs are watched later, those often are subjected to re-encoding or other destructive processes. These watermarking schemes are designed to survive mpeg and ac-3 processes for tracking.

If you're of a conspiracy-theory bent you can also imagine mics in public places and on devices tracking what happens acoustically, but that would never happen!
( the previous was meant as humor. )


Quote:
What was peculiar though was that this phenomenon was mostly and almost only heard accompanying microphones from the room sources (including live music), but not heard when they were showing videos and playbacks.
That's due to the still to be determined phase anomalies. They occurred on live mics because the live mics were diverged. The playback material was not as prevalent in the center, so any phase anomalies were not aggravated.

Hugh
Old 14th March 2012
  #56
Gear Head
 
alvinphoto&sound's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HughH View Post
Hello,




Time shifting. Many programs are watched later, those often are subjected to re-encoding or other destructive processes. These watermarking schemes are designed to survive mpeg and ac-3 processes for tracking.

If you're of a conspiracy-theory bent you can also imagine mics in public places and on devices tracking what happens acoustically, but that would never happen!
( the previous was meant as humor. )




That's due to the still to be determined phase anomalies. They occurred on live mics because the live mics were diverged. The playback material was not as prevalent in the center, so any phase anomalies were not aggravated.

Hugh
That's all very interesting info, thanks for taking the time to look into this Hugh!
Old 14th March 2012
  #57
Gear Addict
I thought it was CTV's (who "simsubbed" ABC in Canada) problem.
Old 21st March 2012
  #58
drake.ch
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HughH View Post
Time shifting. Many programs are watched later, those often are subjected to re-encoding or other destructive processes. These watermarking schemes are designed to survive mpeg and ac-3 processes for tracking.
What, so people who are part of the rating scheme will just have an open mic in the house? And if they watch something on their tivo box, or youtube, or a friend comes over with a laptop with tv shows downloaded via torrent it will pick up?

Does anyone actually know anyone who is part of the ratings system? Is it a us only thing?
Old 21st March 2012
  #59
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ionian's Avatar
I don't watch TV at all so I'm trying to figure out of the Networks hate me because I don't eat their garbage or if they don't know I exist...


Regards,
Frank
Old 23rd April 2012
  #60
Gear Head
 
alvinphoto&sound's Avatar
 

any updates at all ?
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