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Combining XY and AB Condenser Microphones
Old 18th December 2012
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polytope View Post
Any reliable American dealer for the Superlux S502?
You could try
AudioHipster

He's on this board
Old 18th December 2012
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richgilb View Post
I perceive, rightly or wrongly, that because the fig 8 points sideways, it picks up more room sound than cardioids pointing straight ahead, giving it a softer image.
Hmmh. I recall a somewhat stalemated debate in an old thread over the following proposition:

Array 1: a real MS pair that translates to a virtual XY pair with a particular mic pattern and XY angling (say, supercard. / 128 deg)
Array 2: a real XY pair whose pattern and angling was identical to the virtual pair from Array 1.

The claim was that Array 1 would yield more reverberation, from extra side wall reflections. My opinion was that - for the case of mathematically ideal mic patterns - Arrays 1 and 2 should yield an identical result.
Old 18th December 2012
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heva View Post
You could try
AudioHipster

He's on this board
Thanks for the pointer.

Really, how good is this Superlux S502? It's only $198, cheaper than my pair of CM3s. If it sounds 99% like the Schoeps MSTC 64 U, I might grab a couple.
Old 18th December 2012
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polytope View Post
Thanks for the pointer.

Really, how good is this Superlux S502? It's only $198, cheaper than my pair of CM3s. If it sounds 99% like the Schoeps MSTC 64 U, I might grab a couple.
Check this forum, there are a few threads on it.
I have one, and like it (I can neverever afford the 'real' one). Swapping the coupling-capacitor in the circuit for a better one, seems like a good mod (have it planned to do).
Old 18th December 2012
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richgilb View Post
I think that covers it too.....less precision, more wash.
I've always felt that MS provided good localization / precision. But I admit that I haven't set up MS with XY and compared results. I suppose YMMV.

Tom
Old 18th December 2012
  #36
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richgilb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom McC View Post
Hmmh. I recall a somewhat stalemated debate in an old thread over the following proposition:

Array 1: a real MS pair that translates to a virtual XY pair with a particular mic pattern and XY angling (say, supercard. / 128 deg)
Array 2: a real XY pair whose pattern and angling was identical to the virtual pair from Array 1.

The claim was that Array 1 would yield more reverberation, from extra side wall reflections. My opinion was that - for the case of mathematically ideal mic patterns - Arrays 1 and 2 should yield an identical result.
Ha...that will be a debate I could not possibly have added anything to. My own layman conclusion is that XY with 2 mics pointing in similar directions will be more focussed than 3 mics at right angles or 180 degrees to each other.
Old 19th December 2012
  #37
Gear Nut
 

My main rig is a mini tree with an XY centre. This is for chamber orchestra in a recital hall. It works for me in this situation. Your XY is a point source. Your AB is not so far apart that it can't be use on it's own. Turning up the XY centre is like a 'focus' knob. I take a hit in the 'purity' of the stereo image, but I feel the benefits outweigh the negatives. My client wants an exciting and lively sound, perfect stereo image is less important. I have tried it with ORTF in the centre but didn't work for me that time. Too many spaced sources. I have thought about trying an MS, but I have never liked MS. I can't get past that most of the orchestra is off-axis to half of the microphone. But I don't have much experience. YMMV.
Old 19th December 2012
  #38
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Yeeeahhh!!!! Someone that has had the same experiences I have had with my spaced pair and the Soundfield. Exactly your point. So I'm not alone.

So you do it Decca tree style? When you say mini tree, how far apart?
Old 1 week ago
  #39
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I plan to do exactly what this thread is about: combining two stereo techniques. I thought reopening this old thread from 2012 would be best, to keep all information together. Please tell me if I should have opened a new thread instead.

I plan to combine ORTF and AB. I've read the comments and this article. I wonder however if combining stereo techniques can cause phase issues. What about not applying the 3 to 1 rule (distance between mics should be 3 times the distance to the source)? The distance to the source would be 4,5 meters. The distance between both left mics will be 31,5 cm (80/2 minus 17/2). And the same at the right mics.

More details of my plan:
- ORTF (17 cm, cardiode Rode NT3's) and AB (80 cm, Rode NT5's with omni capsules).
- Recording a classical choir live concert in a church.
- The stand with all 4 mics will be about 2 meters behind the conductor, so about 4,5 meters in front of the choir.
- I plan to mix the ORTF left mic and the AB left mic both hard to the left and the same for the right channel.
Old 1 week ago
  #40
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any spaced technique creates phase issues - this does not to be bad, it can also sound very pleasing! i mostly prefer the sound of coincident mics though (as they allow for better localisation).

yet with very large orchestras, one can hardly get all the instruments to sound right with just a pair/trio of mics.

if using two mic systems at the same time, i'm using a far larger distance between them than what can be achieved with outriggers; i then go for a very wide l/C/r setup with the C being a soundfield or (close to) coincident mics and l/r being several meters apart.

compared to this, decca imo is nothing but a smaller l/c/r system and to my ears sounds better when used for surround and not getting downmixed to stereo...
Old 1 week ago
  #41
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Interesting. By the way, phase differences between left and right channels are part of the stereo image (if I understood it correctly). My fear is getting phase isues in both seperate channels, even listening to one channel (say left) only.
Old 1 week ago
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmeter View Post
Interesting. By the way, phase differences between left and right channels are part of the stereo image (if I understood it correctly). My fear is getting phase isues in both seperate channels, even listening to one channel (say left) only.
You might want to read some other discussions here, such as:

Faulkner array and insta-snake in action

Three Mixes: A Boojum/JNorman case study

Tony Faulkner contributes posts to both discussions.

Cheers,

Roland
Old 1 week ago
  #43
The 3:1 rule is not applicable here. (Has to do with placing spot microphones and their relationship to other spot microphones, generally speaking.)

The array of microphones functions as one . Put 'em in a line, and you'll be OK. Go forth and conquer!
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