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CM3 - really THAT good? Condenser Microphones
Old 25th April 2012
  #211
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hendriks View Post
Thanks for the replies. Here are the correct answers:

-saxophone + piano
1-1-cm3 / 1-2-M1245 / 1-3-NT5
-violin + piano
2-1-NT5 / 2-2-CM3 / 2-3-M1245
-piano solo
3-1-M1245 / 3-2-NT5 / 3-3-CM3
-soprano + (male-)alto + piano
4-1-M1245 / 4-2-NT5 / 4-3-CM3
-viola solo
5-1-NT5 / 5-2-CM3 /5-3-M1245
-traversi
6-1-CM3 / 6-2-M1245 / 6-3-NT5

Didier
Thanks for pointing out my 'little' mistake. I will try to replace the flipped-stereo audio files.

CGBrian.M
I'll actually be quite surprised if I'm not correct

I am afraid you fooled yourself by assuming that the order was the same in all clips :-)

Ah...Indeed, I did! Well, you win some, you lose some. Although I tend to lose more than I win! :-)

Haigbabe
Noise VlnPiano file #3, VocalPiano #1 and Traversi#2

It's how these mics are performing

polytope
I hope 2 is indeed the Line Audio CM3 because I'm planning to get these

In the violin/piano clip no 2 is the cm3 :-)

(Not only) Based on this comparison I am really happy with my cm3 pair.
Peter.
Whoops! See my post under the quote above.

Last edited by CGBrian.M; 25th April 2012 at 05:00 AM.. Reason: Do I even know how to use this site?
Old 25th April 2012
  #212
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The Listener's Avatar
Nice addition to the thread, I didn't listen to the files yet, because of the weird file extension and after seeing that none of my already installed software doesn't want to play them, I gave up. Might do it later, but I don't want to install yet another player just to be able to play some test. What's wrong with PCM WAV? And sometimes even 320kps mp3s are enough to get the basic idea of certain mic's behavior.

Anyway - I still like my CM3s and even compared to Rode NT5, they are cheaper. But there is NO cheapness to their sound!

I just used them for more percussion recording yesterday in the studio, with the new gobos in action- and wow, the additional treatment in that room made quite a big difference and the mics were able to "shine" even more...

Because they are wide cardioid I think comparing them to other wide cardioids and even omnis is more fair to other mics, than comparing to cardioids - they would always sound a bit more natural and "euphonic" in direct comparison to cardioids, even the very best ones. Maybe they could sound "too dark" in some bad rooms compared to other cardioids, but then you need another type of mic anyway or a good EQ.

In a quick test I didn't prefer DPA4011 over them much (but if money wouldn't be an issue, I wouldn't mind having also those cardioids around - they are great - just a hair more accurate - but not 1500 EUR more accurate ), but I did prefer 4006 over them in spaced set up. For that price this is amazing.

In that Didier.Brest's piano recording I heard no benefit of Schoeps MK21 over Line Audio CM3.
If some day Ivo Sedlacek would do some of his great sounding recording comparisons with those two mics (Schoeps MK21 and CM3) it would be great. I always heard the most dramatic differences in his tests. Especially on the rich and complex sound of his "monochord".
Old 25th April 2012
  #213
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
I didn't listen to the files yet, because of the weird file extension and after seeing that none of my already installed software doesn't want to play them, I gave up.
You have to change the extension from .fla to .flac for reading these files with a flac compatible player.
Old 25th April 2012
  #214
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The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
You have to change the extension from .fla to .flac for reading these files with a flac compatible player.
You mean - those are actually FLAC files? Will check.
Old 25th April 2012
  #215
Here for the gear
 

The fla is indeed flac. I just gave the files the fla extension cause of the upload restrictions (no flac allowed, only fla).
Peter.
Old 25th April 2012
  #216
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boojum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
You have to change the extension from .fla to .flac for reading these files with a flac compatible player.
Actually, foobar will play FLA and FLAC. foobar is on the Windows platform only. It can transcode files, write CD's, rip CD's, maintain a library of tracks, tag them, and so on. A great package, a free package. foobar2000
Old 25th April 2012
  #217
Gear Head
I also downloaded the VLC player before I realized that I could have renamed them to *.flac and listened in winamp...

Thanks to The Listener for starting this thread and to everyone for encouraging comments and very illustrating samples. I have now put a few of my existing mics on sale, aiming to get my own pair of CM3s soon
Old 25th April 2012
  #218
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The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hendriks View Post
The fla is indeed flac. I just gave the files the fla extension cause of the upload restrictions (no flac allowed, only fla).
Peter.
Why didn't anyone say so? And I was there wondering wtf is .FLA? Being sort of a fan of FLAC I feel a bit stupid now.

What kind of strange restriction is this with posting FLAC? It should be endorsed by everyone, especially forums like Gearslutz, where can I complain??

btw - listened to the files now, but can't be too smart after the results were revealed. I might have chosen some NT5 files as CM3 because of my bias towards Line Audio (meaning - what sounds subjectively better to me would be chosen as CM3) and some of the NT5 files sounded the best in a few of those clips. The third mic was always easy to spot with its excessive noise and too bright sound.

CM3 are indeed the "fattest" and "smoothest", but in piano+sax and piano+violin in that room Rode NT5 yielded a clearer picture - I would prefer them, but I liked the tone of the solo viola that CM3 captured better... the third mic was unusable for viola - annoying and noisy.

Maybe the CM3 stereo pair should be positioned a bit more spaced than NT5 to get the same clear picture or maybe their wide cardioid pattern captured too much of the room and made it sound muddy.

NT5 presented a clearer and more exciting picture in a few clips, but the deeper tonality of CM3 sounds nicer to me, though in that room (and/or position?) they sounded a bit too muddy.
The third mic pair was no comparison, it was way too noisy and the sound was not on the same level than with CM3 and NT5.

It would be cool to hear another comparison of those two mics recorded in a nicer room and with good musicians (and so that the wide cardioid pattern would be taken in account while positioning). Unfortunately my DPA 4011A vs CM3 clips suffer the same fault - really really bad room and average musician (by classical standards), playing a very average violin.

I couldn't make myself listen to the whole clips with the two singers - all three clips sounded distorted and annoying. What was the cause - did you clip the preamp or converters...? Neither CM3 or NT5 should clip so easily...
Old 25th April 2012
  #219
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boojum's Avatar
FLAC/FLA info and the players for various platforms

FLAC is available on various platforms. This link explains which platforms' players can be used: FLAC - documentation

As I posted above, foobar plays FLAC fiiles regardless of whether the extension is *.FLA or *.FLAC. FLAC really is where it is at for lossless compression. Lossless is the keyword here.
Old 25th April 2012
  #220
Here for the gear
 

I thought it would be best to make a uniform setting for my first comparison of these mics. I hoped that the results would give some directions for future use of the different mics. In the meantime I made a live concert recording of a chamber-choir with the cm3's, at a bit more distance from each other indeed. I will try to post a clip soon. Recording the choir on a Zoom H4n it was not possible to do more testing.

The fla/flac issue: it is really annoying, because I had to change the extensions to fla and others had to change them back. Foobar and a flac-plugin for adobe audition can load the fla. I don't know if there are programs that can save to fla.

I concluded that it is not so easy to capture a counter-tenor (the alto). There is a lot of energy coming from that voice. I hope the guy will help me once to find out how to do it well. I haven't noticed clipping in preamp or recorder.

Please be carefull not to judge the musicians performing in posted clips. It's great that they allow the recording and testing and the publishing of results (here).
Peter.
Old 26th April 2012
  #221
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boojum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hendriks View Post
I don't know if there are programs that can save to fla.
Peter.
SAM exports a FLAC file, that is *.FLAC. Likewise foobar.
Old 26th April 2012
  #222
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The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
SAM exports a FLAC file, that is *.FLAC. Likewise foobar.
Installing foobar... looks like a great tool.

I was usually using "FLAC frontend" to convert FLAC to wav and vice versa. I like that raw, old school looking, no fuss application.

Reaper can play FLAC, so can my "mp3 player", my main DAW - Nuendo unfortunately not.
Old 27th April 2012
  #223
Here for the gear
 

Line Audio CM3 and Naiant XW on chamber choir

A recording of a chamberchoir with the CM3 and one with XW.

Same church and choir (in same setting) / Diferent mics and concert.
Line Audio CM3: ~ 3m up - mics in ORTF - capsules 30 cm apart - angle ~ 90° - ~ 2m behind the director.
Naiant XW: ~ 3m up - mics in A/B - 30 cm apart - ~ 1m behind the director (no piano in the concert, only a capella).

Both recordings with Zoom H4n, only the sound level edited.

I thought it would be nice to include the Naiant recording. You won't find many examples of the Naiants. I have in fact a matched trio of the XW (very nice for recording wide settings). The XW has been discontinued (replaced by the UW).

See the pictures for the setting. Their was no audience in the first row during the concert with the Naiant-recording, the first 2 rows were empty during the concert with the cm-3 recording. All other seats were token.

I tried to post the audio with .flac extension, but it's not possible (invalid file). So one may have to rename to .flac to be able to play the recordings.

Please make a guess
Enjoy!
Peter.
Attached Thumbnails
CM3 - really THAT good?-setting-01.jpg   CM3 - really THAT good?-setting-02.jpg   CM3 - really THAT good?-naiant-xw.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: fla Choir-1.fla (6.29 MB, 572 views) File Type: fla Choir-2.fla (4.77 MB, 403 views)
Old 28th April 2012
  #224
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boojum's Avatar
SWAG:

Naiant = #1
Line CM3 = #2
Old 28th April 2012
  #225
Gear Maniac
 

Anyone know if the Shure A53M will work with the CM3?
Old 28th April 2012
  #226
Lives for gear
Interesting to see those 36 mm 'pressure waveplates' on the Naiant pair....I wonder if they would accomplish somewhat the same goals as the APE spheres (but with less cost and effort in fabricating them) ? The Naiant plates are claimed to be made of 'instrument grade ebony' and there are some more specs on the plate function here: Naiant
Incidentally the mic is now discontinued.
Old 28th April 2012
  #227
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
OK, I had a first serious recording session trying to use Line Audio mics, with a certain African musician playing balafon
Symmetric Orchestra by any chance?
Old 28th April 2012
  #228
Lives for gear
"Il est bel et bon" music and recording.
I think it's the CM3.
Old 4th May 2012
  #229
Lives for gear
 

unreal

My two CM3's finally arrived.

I hope my excitement didn't color my ears too much. I put them through some violin and classical vocals. Wow. It's unreal. All this for 200 Euros?!

Really, we should get rid of all the consumer cardioid crap and replace them with the CM3's.

Can't wait to have a couple of the omni version.

Thank you GS.. Thank you JP. Thank you Line Audio. This is the best investment I have made on audio gear, ever!
Old 5th May 2012
  #230
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boojum's Avatar
I ran my CM3's against some Schoeps CMC64's, both in ORTF. The Schoeps were more detailed and had better "reach" but the overall sound of the Line Audio CM3's were "fatter" and "smoother." Just the ticket for the chorale I record as they tend to be a bit on the shrill side. I think that the next performance I do will be the CM3's. They have that smooth, "fat" sound and are quite forgiving. I really like them. I do not know what that guy in Sweden is doing, but is it some serious good mojo. Tak!
Old 5th May 2012
  #231
Gear Nut
 

Okay, I caved. Have a pair on order now.

Recommendations for setup for a live performance of electroacoustic music? Was assuming 20" apart or so, 10' away from performers, 90 degree angles...
Old 5th May 2012
  #232
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jpgerard's Avatar
Hi Polytope, you're welcome. Glad you dig them!
Old 5th May 2012
  #233
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boojum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvin100 View Post
Okay, I caved. Have a pair on order now.

Recommendations for setup for a live performance of electroacoustic music? Was assuming 20" apart or so, 10' away from performers, 90 degree angles...
An ORTF array works fine.
Old 5th May 2012
  #234
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boojum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
Hi Polytope, you're welcome. Glad you dig them!
Hey, JP, what's the scoop on the possibility of omnis from Line???
Old 5th May 2012
  #235
Lives for gear
 

I emailed Roger Jönsson (Mr Line Audio) in January to inquire about omnis. The scoop at that time was ... soon 10mm capsule in a cone-shaped tip - free-field, flat on-axis. Hopefully soon has become very soon!
Old 5th May 2012
  #236
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
I ran my CM3's against some Schoeps CMC64's, both in ORTF. The Schoeps were more detailed and had better "reach" but the overall sound of the Line Audio CM3's were "fatter" and "smoother." Just the ticket for the chorale I record as they tend to be a bit on the shrill side. I think that the next performance I do will be the CM3's. They have that smooth, "fat" sound and are quite forgiving. I really like them. I do not know what that guy in Sweden is doing, but is it some serious good mojo. Tak!
Try to EQ them for similar upper response and see what that gives. According to the manufacturers graphs what you hear may very well be a simple difference in spectral balance.

/Peter
Old 5th May 2012
  #237
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 

Another shoot-out including Line Audio CM3, Josephson C42, Schoeps CMC621 and DPA 4021.
Attached Thumbnails
CM3 - really THAT good?-dscf0932.jpg  
Attached Files

01-110605_2217.mp3 (5.88 MB, 5697 views)

02-110605_2217.mp3 (5.88 MB, 5374 views)

03-110605_2217.mp3 (5.88 MB, 5188 views)

04-110605_2217.mp3 (5.88 MB, 5163 views)

Old 5th May 2012
  #238
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jpgerard's Avatar
Well I prefer not to give an availability date as I don't have one but the OM-1 should be in stock by the end of summer. The proto exists and performs very well. When its ready it's going to be a killer little Omni, with a flat response so I guess the whole free-field/diffuse field discussion will rise again... noise will be good for a flat response omni, certainly lower than some other popular omnis currently on the market. Small size as usual and the accessories will be the typical CM3 ones. Price to be determined but in the same range as the CM3. That's all I have for now. PM me for a photo of the prototype...
Old 5th May 2012
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
Well I prefer not to give an availability date as I don't have one but the OM-1 should be in stock by the end of summer. The proto exists and performs very well. When its ready it's going to be a killer little Omni, with a flat response so I guess the whole free-field/diffuse field discussion will rise again... noise will be good for a flat response omni, certainly lower than some other popular omnis currently on the market. Small size as usual and the accessories will be the typical CM3 ones. Price to be determined but in the same range as the CM3. That's all I have for now. PM me for a photo of the prototype...
Seriously, if it is as good as you say above (which I think it will be), even 150 Euros is a steal.

The past two days have been like a dream. Good that a site like GS exists. Otherwise, I wouldn't have known about Line Audio and would have been looking at matched pairs costing way over $1000.
Old 5th May 2012
  #240
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jpgerard's Avatar
Yes, I'd consider it a steal too. It should be around that price. And yes, GS is a nice place to find lesser known brands!
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