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CM3 - really THAT good? Condenser Microphones
Old 16th May 2017
  #1531
The MK4 is even cheaper than the NT1, may have to grab one!
Old 20th May 2017
  #1532
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
The current NT1 is only useful, IMHO, when you need a budget, super quiet, relatively flat LDC. So it's not an every day mic, it's in fact a very specialized mic, although it's marketed as a do it all type thing. Sorry but the mids push it out of the "workhorse" category for me.

The Sennheiser MK4 is a much more natural mic, but the top end lift reminds me of the Neumann TLM103.

Reminds me I STILL haven't tried the current C414 XLS. Wonder if it's flat enough for most jobs.

And yes, the MKH Series were/are very good indeed.
I've never been a fan of XLS, TLII and such. Opinions aside, I've used 414 ULS on trumpet in a great sounding room, at certain distance, always off axis, on ballads (no bebop or hard styles) and in conjunction with a dark/smooth mic (441,421,ribbon...).

Never tried CM3 but it'd be a good candidate.
Old 20th May 2017
  #1533
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
Hey Listener! Well, when it comes to really low level sources, SDC's just don't cut it, even the best SDC's have noise levels in the low to mid teens (A weighted). A budget solution is the current Rode NT1, the black one. There's no appreciable noise (5 dBA!) and if you just need a very quiet mic occasionally for delicate stuff, for under 300 USD it's a deal. The mids are a bit weird but not too much, otherwise a relatively flat LDC. A bit noisier than the Rode is the Senn MK4, I really like that one, more natural, a bit brighter and in the same price range. At 10dBA it's probably quiet enough for almost anything. They're both well made, not Chinese and are reasonably well manufacturer-supported. I haven't found anything yet with similar quality in the same price range (as far as LDC's for low level sources go) but there are several other mics out there currently that I haven't tried yet of course.
Very classy post JP. Especially considering it's a thread about your own product.

Love your attitude and it comes across in the credibility of your company too!



R.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #1534
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jpgerard's Avatar
I never understood the B-ULS hate... it was a brilliant attempt from AKG at offering a linear, relatively flat response LDC. It behaved well off axis, much better than a U87... but of course it didn't have the zing of the earlier 414 back when the CK12 of the C12 was still used. So if you compared a B-ULS and a C12, C12A or early 414 it would sound flat and some said, dull, lifeless, etc. In fact the B-ULS is flatter and more true but it was considered a flaw! The only thing I don't like about the B-ULs is that component density make it difficult to service the mic is a fault pops up...
Old 22nd May 2017
  #1535
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jpgerard's Avatar
Thanks - I was audio engineer before I became a dealer and have been a GS reader/poster for many years, so it's hard for me not to recommend something I like even if I don't carry it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Betsey View Post
Very classy post JP. Especially considering it's a thread about your own product.

Love your attitude and it comes across in the credibility of your company too!



R.
Old 22nd May 2017
  #1536
Gear Nut
 
Moke's Avatar
 

A bonus use for the CM3...
The plastic case for it came in handy, yesterday, as the right size shim to correct my mic stand ghetto lean.
(pitched theatre flooring; stand was correctly footed, just on a pitched floor).

I'm entirely happy with my pair!
Old 23rd May 2017
  #1537
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hbphotoav's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
The current NT1 is only useful, IMHO, when you need a budget, super quiet, relatively flat LDC. So it's not an every day mic, it's in fact a very specialized mic, although it's marketed as a do it all type thing. Sorry but the mids push it out of the "workhorse" category for me.

The Sennheiser MK4 is a much more natural mic, but the top end lift reminds me of the Neumann TLM103.

Reminds me I STILL haven't tried the current C414 XLS. Wonder if it's flat enough for most jobs.

And yes, the MKH Series were/are very good indeed.
Michael Joly modded one of my "original" NT1s with a new diaphragm and a redesigned (and much more "open") head basket. It went from "rarely used" status to a place as a regular "good choice", usually solo vocals, perc, overhead. I'm likely going to have my remaining NT-1A pair upgraded with the new head basket only, at some point.

Worth a look, and a listen. They are quiet mics...

One old guy's opinion.

HB
Old 23rd May 2017
  #1538
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hbphotoav View Post
Michael Joly modded one of my "original" NT1s with a new diaphragm and a redesigned (and much more "open") head basket. It went from "rarely used" status to a place as a regular "good choice", usually solo vocals, perc, overhead. I'm likely going to have my remaining NT-1A pair upgraded with the new head basket only, at some point.

Worth a look, and a listen. They are quiet mics...

One old guy's opinion.

HB
I had Michael mod an NT1a with his MJE-K47 capsule, and it's become my favorite mic for highly sibilant or otherwise troublesome female voices. I think the NT1 and NT1a are pretty typical budget wannabe's with a hyped and brittle high end, but after the mod, it's got a warm and unique tone to it. And yes, the NT's are dead quiet, so this is also now a good choice on super quiet sources like dulcimer or whispered vocals.
Old 23rd May 2017
  #1539
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hbphotoav's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmccoy View Post
I had Michael mod an NT1a with his MJE-K47 capsule, and it's become my favorite mic for highly sibilant or otherwise troublesome female voices. I think the NT1 and NT1a are pretty typical budget wannabe's with a hyped and brittle high end, but after the mod, it's got a warm and unique tone to it. And yes, the NT's are dead quiet, so this is also now a good choice on super quiet sources like dulcimer or whispered vocals.
I'm looking forward to hearing a "stock" early-'00s NT-1A capsule with the basket swap side-by-side with the MJE-K47 capsule. Then I'll know which one I want for stereo applications. The change in basket was far less subtle than the upgraded center-tap capsule... so I want 'em all like that... especially for on-mic vocals.

HB
Old 28th May 2017
  #1540
Gear Maniac
 
Vesta's Avatar
 

I wonder if the CM3 has any shock isolation for the capsule. One of the musicians I was working with earlier today carelessly dropped it right on hardwood floor. I tested it afterwords briefly and didn't immediately notice any problems with performance.

Is it easy to damage it by dropping? It's a condenser mic after all.
Old 29th May 2017
  #1541
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesta View Post
I wonder if the CM3 has any shock isolation for the capsule. One of the musicians I was working with earlier today carelessly dropped it right on hardwood floor. I tested it afterwords briefly and didn't immediately notice any problems with performance.

Is it easy to damage it by dropping? It's a condenser mic after all.
My guess is that it's tougher than most, the capsule is probably very lightweight and thus has little momentum to inflict 'self damage' compared with a heavier capsule assembly...JP Gerard can perhaps throw some more light on this ?
Old 29th May 2017
  #1542
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jpgerard's Avatar
Damage is unlikely to happen unless significant force is involved. The way the mic is built, shocks would not move things around inside to the point where performance would be affected. There's no shockmounting proper but the capsule itself is not directly coupled to the body. So if you compare your mic with a fresh one and they're identical, you're good to go. In case of doubt send it in for a check, as with most mics (a Chinese mic worth 30 dollars may not be worth postage back to the dealer or manufacturer).

Years ago I drop tested the CM3. I still have that one at the office. It sits there and I use use for various tasks. Every time I check it against a new one - no differences. So not only is the CM3 sturdy, it's also pretty good in terms of consistency over the years...

One thing to keep in mind: Line Audio mics have Aluminum bodies, strong enough for regular use but arguably not as shock proof as steel. Also the (steel, I believe) screw connecting the body to the PCB/capsule assembly is plunged into a small hard metal (not sure what it is) sheet in the XLR core. If after a fall you notice anything lose, then it's worth sending it in as the Shield/Ground connection is done via that screw so you want to make sure it's still firmly anchored and conducting properly to avoid erratic behavior during recording. I only had one such repair to handle over many years (several hundreds of CM3's then) and the fall had been substantial as I recall, so a one-off really, but worth knowing. In most cases, if you get erratic hum, motorboating, drop outs etc, make sure that one screw is nice and tight, making sure not to apply too much torque of course. It's a good idea to have an XLR connector in the mic when checking the screw > body contact. That way you don't bend or damage the internal screw thread.

That's about it really, it's truly a problem free, reliable mic...
Old 29th May 2017
  #1543
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just.sounds's Avatar
I did not notice the cm3 was still on the cable once. Started rolling...... it and it still works fine.
Old 29th May 2017
  #1544
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by just.sounds View Post
I did not notice the cm3 was still on the cable once. Started rolling...... it and it still works fine.
FIFY (Fixed it for you)

I have done things like that as well; I always catch myself looking around to see if anyone noticed me do it. Perhaps we should start a 'Confessional' thread...
Old 29th May 2017
  #1545
Gear Nut
Here are some excerpts from my last classical concert that I recorded. I used 3 CM-3s and 2 OM-1s. 2 CM-3s were a stereo ORTF pair on the 8-person string ensemble, with an OM-1 outrigger on each side, about 8 feet away from the main pair. A pair of Shure KSM141s were on the choir in an x\y array and the other CM-3 spotted the soloist singers. I experimented with two Nady ribbon mics for the cello and bass but they are pretty low in the mix. I also have a Rode NT1 spotting the organ relatively close but it is quite low in the mix too.

All of this fed into a new DAV BG-8 pre-amp. Unfortunately it has a dead channel that I need to get repaired but otherwise it sounds great.

The DAV feeds into an Antelope Goliath, that has an issue that needs to be sorted out as well but it sounds like I'm not alone with this problem.

24-bit 96khz Wave Files -

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By...mF4cWV5blZPV1E
Handel Coronation Anthem, Vivaldi's Gloria, piece with oboe and female soloist, and Vivaldi's Gloria conclusion with full choir:
Old 30th May 2017
  #1546
I'm a bit shocked to hear a new preamp has a dead channel. Is it brand new our just new to you?
Old 30th May 2017
  #1547
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
I'm a bit shocked to hear a new preamp has a dead channel. Is it brand new our just new to you?
It is brand new and fortunately I just found out the cause, it looks like a wire came loose from its post on the board for channel 2. I contacted Mick Hinton to see if he gets my blessing to try to either wrap it back around the post or solder it to the post. He seems like a pretty good guy so I'm sure he will be eager to help. I'm glad it's something simple. I would imagine it got knocked loose during shipping. This thing really has a simple elegant design inside.
Attached Thumbnails
CM3 - really THAT good?-img_0137.jpg   CM3 - really THAT good?-img_0138.jpg  
Old 30th May 2017
  #1548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrshv80 View Post
It is brand new and fortunately I just found out the cause, it looks like a wire came loose from its post on the board for channel 2. I contacted Mick Hinton to see if he gets my blessing to try to either wrap it back around the post or solder it to the post. He seems like a pretty good guy so I'm sure he will be eager to help. I'm glad it's something simple. I would imagine it got knocked loose during shipping. This thing really has a simple elegant design inside.
Glad it's simple!
Old 3rd June 2017
  #1549
Gear Maniac
 
Vesta's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post

(....) That's about it really, it's truly a problem free, reliable mic...
Thanks for the detailed message.

They are! I bought a few and they've killed my curiosity to even try other SDC mics. They neutral, small and sibilance-free. AndtThe little self-noise people often complain about isn't really an issue, especially with good preamps.

I'm glad it's also known to survive falls. They're so small I imagine it's not the first time they'll fall from someone's hand.
Old 7th June 2017
  #1550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesta View Post
Thanks for the detailed message.

They are! I bought a few and they've killed my curiosity to even try other SDC mics. They neutral, small and sibilance-free. AndtThe little self-noise people often complain about isn't really an issue, especially with good preamps.

I'm glad it's also known to survive falls. They're so small I imagine it's not the first time they'll fall from someone's hand.
They're also dead light, so drops won't result in such a high impact as a heavier mic...

I love mine, they're an extremely useful addition to my mic cabinet.
Old 18th June 2017
  #1551
Gear Nut
Bach Concerto recorded with CM-3 and OM-1

This is a Bach Concerto I recorded in April using the CM-3s and OM-1s. CM-3s were in a main x\y pair. Left and right outriggers were OM-1s. Learned afterwards they sound better in an ORTF or NOS config. I had a pair of Shure KSM141 spotting the black piano and while not heard in this video, a pair of Rode M5s spotting the other piano.
Old 20th June 2017
  #1552
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jpgerard's Avatar
IMHO whether to go coincident or not is a matter of taste, it's an artistic choice and a subjective one too... after using the mics on a few sessions you'll find out what you like best. Yes, Coincident has its advantages but I often found that a spaced pair gives a better (as in larger, more dramatic) sense of stereo spread over loud speakers.
Old 20th June 2017
  #1553
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
IMHO whether to go coincident or not is a matter of taste, it's an artistic choice and a subjective one too... after using the mics on a few sessions you'll find out what you like best. Yes, Coincident has its advantages but I often found that a spaced pair gives a better (as in larger, more dramatic) sense of stereo spread over loud speakers.
This is sound advice regarding experimenting...and conversely, when you want a nice sense of narrow stereo width as a spot mic pair, the CM3's work well in XY on both cello and voices... you can see and hear both here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDwiyl5FRJg
Attached Thumbnails
CM3 - really THAT good?-cello-xycm3.jpg  
Old 20th June 2017
  #1554
just thought I'd add a recording to the library.

It was recorded with the CM3 pair in X/Y straight into my Audient iD22 using the onboard mic preamps, no EQ at all, just a little bit of parallel compression with an elysia xpressor 500 later and I'm very happy with the sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX4-FiiMXug
Old 20th June 2017
  #1555
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
This is sound advice regarding experimenting...and conversely, when you want a nice sense of narrow stereo width as a spot mic pair, the CM3's work well in XY on both cello and voices... you can see and hear both here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDwiyl5FRJg
This recording sounds wonderful. You picked up the perfect mix of ambient vs. direct sound from the piano. Did you have to use any EQ?
Old 20th June 2017
  #1556
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by pencilextremist View Post
just thought I'd add a recording to the library.

It was recorded with the CM3 pair in X/Y straight into my Audient iD22 using the onboard mic preamps, no EQ at all, just a little bit of parallel compression with an elysia xpressor 500 later and I'm very happy with the sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX4-FiiMXug
The guitar sounds really natural. How far away from the strings did you have the x\y pair?
Old 20th June 2017
  #1557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrshv80 View Post
The guitar sounds really natural. How far away from the strings did you have the x\y pair?
thankyou very much, it was about 1-2 feet away, I don't remember fully because it was recorded in 2014, wish I'd have made some notes now.
Old 20th June 2017
  #1558
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrshv80 View Post
This is a Bach Concerto I recorded in April using the CM-3s and OM-1s. CM-3s were in a main x\y pair. Left and right outriggers were OM-1s. Learned afterwards they sound better in an ORTF or NOS config. I had a pair of Shure KSM141 spotting the black piano and while not heard in this video, a pair of Rode M5s spotting the other piano.
Why does this have to be on youtube with so many wrong notes in the solo part...?
Old 20th June 2017
  #1559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulrich View Post
Why does this have to be on youtube with so many wrong notes in the solo part...?
When we see a soloist make mistakes live, should we shoot him/her so it never happens again?

I don't understand your objection to a poor performance when you aren't paying for it nor forced to watch it.
Old 20th June 2017
  #1560
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
When we see a soloist make mistakes live, should we shoot him/her so it never happens again?

I don't understand your objection to a poor performance when you aren't paying for it nor forced to watch it.
Of course, I forgot, that's today's only criterion: Is it cheap, or even better, for free.
Sorry for thinking about quality. Should do this only when gear is concerned. Music doesn't matter...
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