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CM3 - really THAT good? Condenser Microphones
Old 24th February 2017
  #1501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
Sean, the combined experience in this thread is that NOS seems to work a bit better than ORTF. It is the wide cardioid pattern. YMMV, of course.
Understood. Should I opt at some point for using the CM-3's as my main orchestral front pair, I'll go NOS. I'm sticking with the Neumann's for now, but will definitely be taking advantage of the CM-3's for solo spots and choir right away.

Last edited by seanmccoy; 24th February 2017 at 05:24 PM..
Old 24th February 2017
  #1502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
"Boutique" has become a wide range of things, unfortunately. Line audio is a very rare one man company designing and actually manufacturing the product. With the exception of most capsule parts and the Neutrik XLR socket, the whole mic is made in Sweden. The basic swivel mount is comes from Taiwan or China, I don't remember, and is part of the low price of the set. I believe the plastic box is also a local item. This type of product being built locally from scratch is definitely was "boutique" is about, unlike some companies importing complete products from China selling them in the factory sealed plastic wrap... I'm not the only one convinced that Line Audio products are under-priced, which can put off some people. I'm glad that in this case GS helped someone discover how good the CM3 is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I usually associate the word 'boutique' with low sales volume, but I wonder if that still applies to the Line Audio mics ? Similarly I associate boutique with expensive, which these mics certainly aren't. I guess there are many makers who fit into this category: DAV, Gordon, Pueblo etc, and then you have the modifiers like Black Lion Audio and Michael Joly, so it's a term laced with many interpretations

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post
There's a difference between a craftsman building one microphone one at a time versus someone selling microphones at some cheap price point churned out in the thousands by someone else in some cheap labor and materials factory. And it makes a difference to have someone like jpgerard handling sales and giving great customer service.
I use the word loosely to describe any company creating and selling products that are more often associated with larger, known names. In the mic world that would include Joly, Niant, Little Blondie, and of course, Line Audio.
Old 27th February 2017
  #1503
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Mats H's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by voltronic View Post
Thanks for the lossless sample. Really enjoying it.

Regarding the headphone port - the complaint I've heard is that the amp is not at all neutral and shouldn't be trusted for serious monitoring unless you're simply using it as a level reference. The sound actually recorded is supposedly far superior to what you're hearing through the headphone amp. If that's true, that is OK with me given the price point.

I wonder if your Grado and Sony phones have significantly different impedance, and that's why it would not sound right with the Grados?
Thx a bunch! Well the Grado SR325iS headphones have an impedance of 32 ohm while the Sony MDR-7506 headphones have an impedance of 63 ohms, so double the impedance there. The Grado headphones sounded a bit brittle, almost rattling, while the Sony headphones are more balanced in tone (though still bright as they are quite top heavy) and work well for film work and some classical on site monitoring.

The F8 has a headphone output impedance of "15 ohms or less".
Old 9th March 2017
  #1504
Just received mine, recording piano this weekend.

I've had my eye on the Line Audio mics for a while. My pair of CM3s arrived today. I'm recording some grand piano this weekend (I've only done that once before, and was prompted to buy the CM3s!).

They're SO small.

I can't wait to get them set up...
Old 12th March 2017
  #1505
TL;DR - I've attached an audio file of just the CM3s, panned hard left and right, from the player's perspective. Enjoy!

The weekend's session went really well. I partly bought the CM3s because of their size: my main workhorse mics are really heavy, which makes remote recordings a challenge (I don't have a car).

I booked a session in the studio the night before so I could test them out. Most reports say they're wider than normal cardioid mics - which they seem to be - but after the test recordings I felt it necessary to supplement the main stereo image with a room mic for ambience.

In the end I recorded with two extra room mics: an SDC omni close to the hammers and a ribbon mic (NoHype LRM-2) further from the instrument. The two additional mics gave me a very wide range of mixing options, which the material made a necessity.

Overall I'm really excited by the quality of recording offered by these mics. Already I'm happy with how honestly they reproduce the performance. They make a great addition to my 'colour heavy' mic collection.

Next weekend I'm recording my monthly jam, I'll be using these as overheads, I'm looking forward to hearing how they perform in this duty, although the drumming samples I've heard on this thread leave me in no doubt that they'll be great!


***EDIT*** How the HELL do I attach my audio to the post? Manage Attachments -> Upload file -> Upload completes -> Save Changes = yet there is no file?!

***2nd EDIT*** Works now!
Attached Files

cm3-close-piano-sample.wav (9.34 MB, 2577 views)


Last edited by RominRonin; 12th March 2017 at 04:38 PM.. Reason: Uploading attachment 2
Old 12th March 2017
  #1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by RominRonin View Post
TL;DR - I've attached an audio file of just the CM3s, panned hard left and right, from the player's perspective. Enjoy!

audio

The weekend's session went really well. I partly bought the CM3s because of their size: my main workhorse mics are really heavy, which makes remote recordings a challenge (I don't have a car).

I booked a session in the studio the night before so I could test them out. Most reports say they're wider than normal cardioid mics - which they seem to be - but after the test recordings I felt it necessary to supplement the main stereo image with a room mic for ambience.

In the end I recorded with two extra room mics: an SDC omni close to the hammers and a ribbon mic (NoHype LRM-2) further from the instrument. The two additional mics gave me a very wide range of mixing options, which the material made a necessity.

Overall I'm really excited by the quality of recording offered by these mics. Already I'm happy with how honestly they reproduce the performance. They make a great addition to my 'colour heavy' mic collection.

Next weekend I'm recording my monthly jam, I'll be using these as overheads, I'm looking forward to hearing how they perform in this duty, although the drumming samples I've heard on this thread leave me in no doubt that they'll be great!


***EDIT*** How the HELL do I attach my audio to the post? Manage Attachments -> Upload file -> Upload completes -> Save Changes = yet there is no file?!
Generally most folks appear to post their files elsewhere (i.e. soundcloud) and then put the link in the GS post.
Old 12th March 2017
  #1507
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
Generally most folks appear to post their files elsewhere (i.e. soundcloud) and then put the link in the GS post.
Not I....just a few little quirky rules to follow re posting here, and persistence in the face of initial failure.
Old 12th March 2017
  #1508
I went under 10MB and that seemed to fix it!
Old 12th March 2017
  #1509
Quote:
Originally Posted by RominRonin View Post
TL;DR - I've attached an audio file of just the CM3s, panned hard left and right, from the player's perspective. Enjoy!
So, if these are just the CM3s, where did you place them?
Old 12th March 2017
  #1510
I never considered the positioning when I took these pictures, so they may not serve as the best guide:

And the album link:
https://imgur.com/a/xrYVe

I basically stuck my head in the box and listened for a position where everything sounded musical and even.
Old 16th March 2017
  #1511
Gear Maniac
 

Hi all!

I'm from Chile and i'm trying to buy 4 CM3, so i wrote 2 times to [email protected] a couple of days ago, but i have no answer.

Do you know if there's another email to write?

Thank you!
Daniel.
Old 16th March 2017
  #1512
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielbest1 View Post
Hi all!

I'm from Chile and i'm trying to buy 4 CM3, so i wrote 2 times to [email protected] a couple of days ago, but i have no answer.

Do you know if there's another email to write?

Thank you!
Daniel.
Most (or all) of us have bought ours through No Hype Audio. You should be able to order directly from their website:

Line Audio - Swedish Made High Quality Audio Products - Available at NoHype Audio
Old 16th March 2017
  #1513
Lives for gear
 
jpgerard's Avatar
I have CM3's in stock but Roger will eventually reply unless your Email ended up Spam blocked. Patience is usually rewarded: give him until Monday, otherwise try to contact him through another email account if you have one - Roger's main Email works, no problem there.
Old 16th March 2017
  #1514
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Velvet Sound have all of them in stock as well Line Audio
Old 17th March 2017
  #1515
Gear Maniac
 

Thanks a lot guys!
Old 2nd May 2017
  #1517
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jpgerard's Avatar
Sorry for missing this. Always keep in mind the 5:1 rule: input Z should ideally be about 5 times the output. So a 200 Ohms mic will drive happily a 1KOhms+ input. higher ratios yield usually a bit less level but deeper bass. The opposite is true of course, you'll notice that a mic pre with a 300 Ohms setting will yield a leaner bass response with a given mic, compared to a higher Z setting, say 1.2K. The difference can be drastic when transformers are involved but TL mics and mic pres will usually be able to deal with some level of mismatch, modern quality TL mics can often drive low impedance inputs without much degradation.
Old 2nd May 2017
  #1518
Gear Addict
 
Continental's Avatar
 

how the cm3 can handle string stuff, with much more transients ?
piano is easy to record instrument & u can get great results from all lowcost microphones.
Old 2nd May 2017
  #1519
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jpgerard's Avatar
Errr... I suggest reading through this thread, there are many examples. I don't know where you got the idea that a piano is easy to record - it's one tough source to capture properly, but then it depends on the results you're after. It's true that pretty much any mic can give a decent Honkytonk track to dress up an Indie tune!
Old 2nd May 2017
  #1520
Gear Addict
 
Continental's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
Errr... I suggest reading through this thread, there are many examples. I don't know where you got the idea that a piano is easy to record - it's one tough source to capture properly, but then it depends on the results you're after. It's true that pretty much any mic can give a decent Honkytonk track to dress up an Indie tune!
piano recordings is not a big thing, when the room is fine, maybe not for beginner, sorry , the royal discipline are, string instruments, drums & vocals
Old 3rd May 2017
  #1521
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continental View Post
piano recordings is not a big thing, when the room is fine, maybe not for beginner, sorry , the royal discipline are, string instruments, drums & vocals
In a recording studio, you probably have it about right. Anywhere else...exactly the reverse of what you suggest !
Old 15th May 2017
  #1522
Gear Nut
Vivaldi Gloria concert captured with Line Audio and Antelope Goliath

This was my first opportunity to use the Line Audio CM-3, OM-1, Antelope Goliath and DAV Electronics BG-8. Overall, I'm happy with how it turned out. This is a small snippet as I have to finish mixing the rest of the concert. I had to use the Shure KSM141 as the main choir pair as I had run out of CM-3s and OM-1s. CM-3s were used as an ORTF pair on the orchestra with OM-1 outriggers. I used a spot CM-3 for the choir soloists and two Nady RSM-5s as spot mics for the bass and cello. A Rode NT-1 was used to spot the organ. The file will probably have to be downloaded as it's a 24-bit 96khz wave file.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By...GJOZ280SjlUOGM
Attached Thumbnails
CM3 - really THAT good?-18423251_10156205690192907_7060358247316884496_o.jpg   CM3 - really THAT good?-18358961_10156205691347907_8462013583565515230_o.jpg   CM3 - really THAT good?-18402038_10156205691352907_6422215807267711701_o.jpg   CM3 - really THAT good?-18358899_10156205691532907_1460143079248730885_o.jpg   CM3 - really THAT good?-18403914_10156205690747907_2471993497503658250_o.jpg  

Old 15th May 2017
  #1523
Gear Addict
 
fred2bern's Avatar
Dear Chrshv80,

For what I see on your pictures, your main pair doesn't look as an ORTF pair wich is supposed to be 17cm and 110°. It looks more close to a DIN take (20cm 90°).
Fred
Old 15th May 2017
  #1524
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The Listener's Avatar
I wonder how many sales did this monster thread that I started instigate... and can I get a free pair of OM-1s as my share, hehehe...

Joking... really... but...

Also - I have to add - I understand things much differently now... And use CM3s regularly, but not as main mics for my purposes - my workhorses are Gefell UM70 and Sennheiser MD441 (and some 421 occasionally). When I wanted to record my "intimate" - one take - NAF flute album, I borrowed a pair of MKH40, because I needed something that "records what is there and makes it bigger" and yet "natural sounding" with as little as possible nasty high end (maybe even a bit of a cut off) and as little noise as possible - those are soft instruments and the recordings were solo - so there is no other stuff that would hide the noise... So CM3 were not suitable... I did record those flutes with them, but the sound was a bit more "tiny", sharp and too much noise (using DAV BG1U) for solo recordings - works well in more busy arrangements with synths and percussion.

So, there you have it in 2017 from me... Ah, the album I talk about can be heard on the link below - there is no EQ or compression on the dry signal, just delay and reverb added and that was it... and some EQ on the FX of course... and low cut on kalimba track... (even if they are small, kalimbas generate much exaggerated sub bass with the attack of the tines when close miced): https://nimetu.bandcamp.com/album/abri

Last edited by The Listener; 15th May 2017 at 12:09 PM..
Old 15th May 2017
  #1525
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jpgerard's Avatar
Hey Listener! Well, when it comes to really low level sources, SDC's just don't cut it, even the best SDC's have noise levels in the low to mid teens (A weighted). A budget solution is the current Rode NT1, the black one. There's no appreciable noise (5 dBA!) and if you just need a very quiet mic occasionally for delicate stuff, for under 300 USD it's a deal. The mids are a bit weird but not too much, otherwise a relatively flat LDC. A bit noisier than the Rode is the Senn MK4, I really like that one, more natural, a bit brighter and in the same price range. At 10dBA it's probably quiet enough for almost anything. They're both well made, not Chinese and are reasonably well manufacturer-supported. I haven't found anything yet with similar quality in the same price range (as far as LDC's for low level sources go) but there are several other mics out there currently that I haven't tried yet of course.
Old 15th May 2017
  #1526
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by fred2bern View Post
Dear Chrshv80,

For what I see on your pictures, your main pair doesn't look as an ORTF pair wich is supposed to be 17cm and 110°. It looks more close to a DIN take (20cm 90°).
Fred
That is correct Fred, I had to decrease the angle because I had to be much closer to the ensemble than I
had desired and I was afraid the center would collapse with a full ORTF configuration.
Old 15th May 2017
  #1527
Lives for gear
 
The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
Hey Listener! Well, when it comes to really low level sources, SDC's just don't cut it, even the best SDC's have noise levels in the low to mid teens (A weighted). A budget solution is the current Rode NT1, the black one. There's no appreciable noise (5 dBA!) and if you just need a very quiet mic occasionally for delicate stuff, for under 300 USD it's a deal. The mids are a bit weird but not too much, otherwise a relatively flat LDC. A bit noisier than the Rode is the Senn MK4, I really like that one, more natural, a bit brighter and in the same price range. At 10dBA it's probably quiet enough for almost anything. They're both well made, not Chinese and are reasonably well manufacturer-supported. I haven't found anything yet with similar quality in the same price range (as far as LDC's for low level sources go) but there are several other mics out there currently that I haven't tried yet of course.
Yes, I was looking at the new NT1 for some time... but need to hear it first an try it out... if I like it... MK4 is a new thing for me - have to check out...
MKH40 were noiseless enough and very sweet sounding...
Old 15th May 2017
  #1528
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
Hey Listener! Well, when it comes to really low level sources, SDC's just don't cut it, even the best SDC's have noise levels in the low to mid teens (A weighted). A budget solution is the current , the black one. There's no appreciable noise (5 dBA!) and if you just need a very quiet mic occasionally for delicate stuff, for under 300 USD it's a deal. The mids are a bit weird but not too much, otherwise a relatively flat LDC. A bit noisier than the Rode is the Senn MK4, I really like that one, more natural, a bit brighter and in the same price range. At 10dBA it's probably quiet enough for almost anything. They're both well made, not Chinese and are reasonably well manufacturer-supported. I haven't found anything yet with similar quality in the same price range (as far as LDC's for low level sources go) but there are several other mics out there currently that I haven't tried yet of course.
I noticed a touch of sharpness with the too, depending on the source. It does not work well with a coronet or trumpet, at least the particular coronet I was recording. . There seems to be some kind of upper mid-range sharpness and nasality although it may have just been the tone of that particular instrument. I really like the CM-3 as a main stereo pair. I've got the Rode NT1 and you're right, there is something odd about the midrange. I usually have to cut the 3,000-4,000 hz range depending on the material otherwise it's a decent mic for the price. They work great as a stereo pair on a piano.
Old 16th May 2017
  #1529
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jpgerard's Avatar
Right, and if it depends on the source - suspect the source... the CM3 is very linear and yields lifelike signals, personally I would not use condensers on trumpet, over the years I've liked RE20's, SM7's, Sennheisers 441's, various ribbons (seldom disappointed here). Condensers just can't help adding a bit of bite and it gets too much very easily. The CM3 is very well behaved but being a condenser, it's HF tuned, so resonances will happen right there, the usual 8 to 12K range.

Yes, the new NT1 has something going on right there, 3-4K range. Nothing horrible but it's a bit "phasey" to my ears so I wouldn't use it for critical recording but if you need to record something really, really soft and can live with a slight colouration, it's a good choice. But not as a main mic. I haven't used a pair but I tend to stock to SDS's for stereo work anyway.
Old 16th May 2017
  #1530
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jpgerard's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
Yes, I was looking at the new NT1 for some time... but need to hear it first an try it out... if I like it... MK4 is a new thing for me - have to check out...
MKH40 were noiseless enough and very sweet sounding...
The current NT1 is only useful, IMHO, when you need a budget, super quiet, relatively flat LDC. So it's not an every day mic, it's in fact a very specialized mic, although it's marketed as a do it all type thing. Sorry but the mids push it out of the "workhorse" category for me.

The Sennheiser MK4 is a much more natural mic, but the top end lift reminds me of the Neumann TLM103.

Reminds me I STILL haven't tried the current C414 XLS. Wonder if it's flat enough for most jobs.

And yes, the MKH Series were/are very good indeed.
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