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CM3 - really THAT good? Condenser Microphones
Old 15th June 2016
  #1351
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Just listened to the 4 samples on my computer speakers and I liked the KM184 the best, seems to have the most depth, inner detail, color variation and most musically interesting. Did not care for any of the other samples after hearing the KM184. This mic seems to get a bad rap but it's really a great mic if used in the right situation. Several weeks ago I heard the Digital 184 through some Beyer DT880 Pro phones at a friends studio and it was quite outstanding.
Old 16th June 2016
  #1352
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scorpix74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
Merci Didier.
But I'm really interested in hearing those on the OH as cymbals are a special kind of animal. I thought the 184 would be brittle but it was actually ok on this last session.
Old 18th June 2016
  #1353
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Can the Line Audio handle Charles Mingus....you be the judge ?

A CM3 pair used somewhat unconventionally tonight, as a 50cm spaced AB pair, pointing staight ahead and down towards the rear ranks of the ensemble. 3.5 metres high, 0.6 metres back from where the non-existent conductor would have stood. OM-1 spots on both voice and piano, and a line array PA system flown high above the stage provided not un-pleasant ambience.

Another song from the same concert (sharing the Line Audio love between 2 threads here...) is : https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11970362-post296.html
Attached Files

Goodbye PorkPie Hat.mp3 (10.13 MB, 3464 views)


Last edited by studer58; 19th June 2016 at 11:35 AM..
Old 18th June 2016
  #1354
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one more from tonight......

and from the same show: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11970362-post296.html

They could all do with a bit more width...eh ?
Attached Files

Frankie's Flat.mp3 (11.50 MB, 3317 views)


Last edited by studer58; 18th June 2016 at 06:51 PM..
Old 19th June 2016
  #1355
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
one more from tonight......

and from the same show: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11970362-post296.html

They could all do with a bit more width...eh ?
Very nice! (all three of them). Who are the performers? Casually listening here at my computer (with hopefully soon to be upgraded speakers) the width sounds fine to me.

Regards, Christine
Old 19th June 2016
  #1356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by connloyalist View Post
Very nice! (all three of them). Who are the performers? Casually listening here at my computer (with hopefully soon to be upgraded speakers) the width sounds fine to me.Regards, Christine
Thank you Christine, they are post-grad students from a nearby music conservatorium and also the Big Band from the same place, all accomplished players as you can hear, which makes recording them a real pleasure ! Yes I think the width is ok, so many sources including PA speakers and spot mics that it's probably not too far from reality after all
Old 20th June 2016
  #1357
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jpgerard's Avatar
I don't mind the stereo image but like any listener here, I haven't heard the performance... it's always the trick isn't it, the engineer knows the original performance and does his/her best to capture it and will often mind little details that the end listener won't notice. In this case anyway I can't hear a problem.
Old 26th June 2016
  #1358
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just.sounds's Avatar
Like it!! but if i have to pick, the guitars are quite verby and sound a bit out of context. And sometimes the toms seem to jump out of the kit ;-)
Old 13th July 2016
  #1359
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Where I live it's mid-winter, and uncommonly cold, wet and stormy, so what better way to cheer oneself up than with a couple of olde Drinking songs !

Recorded recently in a wooden ceiling church, with a simple pair of 3 metre high CM3 pair in NOS, no spot mics, into DAV BG8 with HPF engaged to kill piano pedal thumps..I should have used Rycote lyres on the CM3's as well.
Attached Files

Drinking Songs.mp3 (6.04 MB, 2655 views)

Old 13th July 2016
  #1360
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jpgerard's Avatar
Have you tried the CMEH from Line Audio? They usually work fine isolating from structural noise...
Old 13th July 2016
  #1361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
Have you tried the CMEH from Line Audio? They usually work fine isolating from structural noise...
They look well built and likely to last a long time, but I'm curious about the compliance or amount of 'spring' they have...as the CM3 is a very lightweight bodied microphone and might not provide enough inertia resistance to enable the rubber flanges to flex and work correctly.

Does anyone here have first hand experience of them functioning with the CM3 in 'combat vibrational conditions' ?
Old 13th July 2016
  #1362
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jpgerard's Avatar
As usual Roger did a good job... the jaws are formed to yield the proper resonant point and the rubber (not sure what type) does well isolating the mic from the clamp. There's a Chinese copy of this design (a Taiwan design originally) on the market and they're as usual a pale copy. Anyway, the inside barrel has weight too and so does the rubber spider, there's also enough compliance when using a CM3 or OM1 and don't forget that the mic has a cable at its XLR end when in use, adding significantly to the weight pushing on the CMEH. Pretty sure CMEH users will chime in but so far I have not received a complaint. I'd expect the Rycote to give better isolation based on price alone but I never used one or compared it to the CMEH. Maybe someone else has and will let us know!
Old 13th July 2016
  #1363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
As usual Roger did a good job... the jaws are formed to yield the proper resonant point and the rubber (not sure what type) does well isolating the mic from the clamp. There's a Chinese copy of this design (a Taiwan design originally) on the market and they're as usual a pale copy. Anyway, the inside barrel has weight too and so does the rubber spider, there's also enough compliance when using a CM3 or OM1 and don't forget that the mic has a cable at its XLR end when in use, adding significantly to the weight pushing on the CMEH. Pretty sure CMEH users will chime in but so far I have not received a complaint. I'd expect the Rycote to give better isolation based on price alone but I never used one or compared it to the CMEH. Maybe someone else has and will let us know!
A simple comparison test could be using the mic (perhaps a pair, on 2 identical tripod stands, with and without the CMEH) on a wooden suspended floor and kicking the floor between the 2 stands...and recording the impulses ?

The kick impulse would be the same for both mics, and the main difference would be the suspension's action. I have the Rode suspension: Rode Shotgun Microphone Shock Mount SM4 B&H Photo Video but I think it's better suited to weightier mics like the NT5
Old 14th July 2016
  #1364
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jpgerard's Avatar
That would illustrate the effect of the CMEH vs. the basic clamp, yes.
Old 14th July 2016
  #1365
I'll do this later today - put a pair of CM3s on a stereo bar, one with a standard pencil mount, and one with the CMEH. I'll tape the cables to the stand so they don't factor in. Then I'll record them while I jump up and down on the floor (tile floor in bathroom) and bump the stand.

Since they'll be on the same stand and mounted to a single bar, the only variable will be the CMEH. I'll post the audio here.

Edit: When that test is done, I'll put them both in a shapeways ORTF stand in a CMEH as well.
Old 14th July 2016
  #1366
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voltronic's Avatar
 

I don't have the CMEH, but for my CM3s I found them to be very vibration-sensitive, so I decided to go the Rycote lyre route. Because of their very light weight, I thought the standard lyres used in the INV mounts would be too stiff, and special ordered two pair of the softer 042255 62-shore lyres, using them to make a set of DIY mounts (one shown below). They do the job extremely well.

I also wanted to share that SRS Recording Services / Shapeways continues to make new mounts for the CM3, in arrangements I've not seen elsewhere. I've been using their Wide ORTF mount (also shown below) recently for ensemble recording and really like the sound - the SRA is a bit wider than the CM3 in DIN, and I find it most useful in places where I need to be a bit closer.

Old 14th July 2016
  #1367
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brhoward's Avatar
 

I took shipment of 5 CM3s and 2 OM1s for spot micing duties! Excellent mics.
Old 14th July 2016
  #1368
So here's a quick test.

Scenario: Two CM3s (matched by JP when he sold them to me), into an X32 rack, both given identical gain (40 dB) and fed to reaper directly via Dante. Once in Reaper, I applied a JS plugin to each track to add 10 dB. Both mics mounted on a single USS tripod stand with rubber feet.

First file is with the left mic in the CMEH and the right in a plain non-iso mount.
Second file puts both mics in a shapeways ORTF holder inside the CMEH.

Comparing the left v. right gives an idea of how effective the CMEH is.
Attached Thumbnails
CM3 - really THAT good?-img_20160714_130342.jpg  
Attached Files
Old 18th July 2016
  #1369
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jpgerard's Avatar
Thanks for the test!
Old 18th July 2016
  #1370
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The thumping of the stand gives a clear advantage for the CMEH vs the regular mount, and the stomping on the floor is reduced with the CMEH supporting the Shapeways holder....quite a compelling demonstration !
Old 18th July 2016
  #1371
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
The thumping of the stand gives a clear advantage for the CMEH vs the regular mount, and the stomping on the floor is reduced with the CMEH supporting the Shapeways holder....quite a compelling demonstration !
I agree. Next time I'm stuck setting up in the typical middle school gym for a choral or orchestra event I'll repeat the test.
Old 18th July 2016
  #1372
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voltronic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
I agree. Next time I'm stuck setting up in the typical middle school gym for a choral or orchestra event I'll repeat the test.
Ah, a comrade in arms!

Since you brought up the typical middle school gym, here's a sample of such an event I recorded using the Wide ORTF mount pictured above. 6th grade chorus, baby grand, in your typical large gym with a stage (AKA gymatorium). Stand sitting on gym floor in typical behind / over conductor position. RX used to knock back the HVAC noise.
Attached Files

15. Rockstar.mp3 (7.85 MB, 1902 views)

Old 18th July 2016
  #1373
Quote:
Originally Posted by voltronic View Post
Ah, a comrade in arms!

Since you brought up the typical middle school gym, here's a sample of such an event I recorded using the Wide ORTF mount pictured above. 6th grade chorus, baby grand, in your typical large gym with a stage (AKA gymatorium). Stand sitting on gym floor in typical behind / over conductor position. RX used to knock back the HVAC noise.
Nice! I'd like to have the stage situation... My daughter's middle school chorus has been in the middle of the gym floor with a shell behind. Here's an excerpt from winter concert. Summer concert was with recorded piano or backgrounds and it was a nightmare with the monitors pointing towards the choir bouncing back off the shells.

This is a pair of AT2050s in ORTF, with an addition of a DI from the electric piano, just to capture the low end. HPF used to eliminate AC noise - didn't have RX at the time.
Attached Files

05 - Jazz Bell Carol.mp3 (4.57 MB, 1761 views)

Old 28th August 2016
  #1374
Gear Head
 

Triton audio FETHEAD Phantom + Line Audio CM3

Hi, did anyone of you tried Triton auddio Fethead Phantom 18db+ together with Line audio CM3 ?

Triton Audio FETHEAD Phantom | ZenPro Audio

Any good for cm3 ?

Best regards
Old 28th August 2016
  #1375
CM3 is sensitive enough (when properly phantom powered) to not need a pre-preamp. Usually the FETHEAD would be reserved for a less sensitive mic like a ribbon.
Old 28th August 2016
  #1376
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
CM3 is sensitive enough (when properly phantom powered) to not need a pre-preamp. Usually the FETHEAD would be reserved for a less sensitive mic like a ribbon.
Yes i know but this one is not the Orginal Fethead for ribbons or dynamics this one is their another product Fethead Phantom for a low gain condenser microphones such is Oktava or CM3 in this case.

I meant that if i would use cm3 + Triton Fethead Phantom would i get lower noise from a Preamp /Mic on longer distances ?

Last edited by problemchild; 28th August 2016 at 12:06 PM..
Old 28th August 2016
  #1377
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
I meant that if i would use cm3 + Triton Fethead Phantom would i get lower noise from a Preamp /Mic on longer distances ?
No. With most preamps the sensitivity of the CM3, 6 mV/Pa, is high enough so that it has no impact on the noise level, the minimum level of which is determined by its self-noise figure 16 dBA.
Old 28th August 2016
  #1378
In my experience, while needing more mic amp gain than most of my condenser microphones, the CM3 operates just fine with gain to spare on most mic preamps, even when used for distant mic'ing.

As the self-noise issue of the CM3 was already mentioned, I would just suggest if one wants to try out the CM3 with a phantom power passing version of the Fathead, it will in no way hurt anything, just try it out if all the bits and pieces are already in your kit. : )

If you were planning to buy one thing or the other and were not sure, I WOULD buy the microphone (get two!) but I would NOT buy the phantom passing fathead if $$$ were an issue. The only condenser mic I wish I had a little boost for are my very old and not very desirable Sennehiser K3 bodies and their capsules. Otherwise I never feel like I am lacking in available gain for my condenser microphones, especially when used for instrumental recording. That is my experience.
Old 28th August 2016
  #1379
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jpgerard's Avatar
"Hi, did anyone of you tried Triton auddio Fethead Phantom 18db+ together with Line audio CM3 ? "

Yes, and many customers have bought both, although I made sure they understood that, again, the Fethead would NOT magically improve the S/N ratio of the mic. It is handy with low end portable recorders with horrible mic pres but usually the CM3 has enough output for most front ends. If you have a S/N ratio problem using a CM3, suspect a mismatch between mic and source or distance and source (signal to noise ratio, literally: the level of the source must be higher than the background noise of the system used to record it...). That said, some customers like the increased output hitting their portable recorder regardless. Also note that a higher level before hitting the mic cable can keep your precious signal above cable born noise, but this is really only a concern with really long cable runs (which is a possibility when on location) and there's a lot of RF and other interference around. The CM3 is pretty good but it's true that its output being average/low, increasing it before the cable can help achieving a cleaner signal at the mic pre front stage. But we're talking extreme conditions here. In most cases, the CM3 will work fine without signal boosting. Puffer Fish is right: get the CM3 and if it appears that you need more level at the output of the mic, a Fethead Phantom would be an elegant solution.
Old 28th August 2016
  #1380
.... and a shameless but unsolicited endorsement: JP Gerard was a pleasure to deal with. A+++
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