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CM3 - really THAT good? Condenser Microphones
Old 22nd April 2016
  #1321
Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
Buy them from NoHype in Belgium. You get them by air. He has the best connection for mics and relieves the maker of retail headaches, which is how the maker likes it. JP is a good dude and everyone on the board has had good experiences with him.

JP can tell you the wait time or perhaps even a visit to his web page will list it. There is no quicker way than JP, or better way.
I second that sentiment. I do not know the turn around these days, but if the mics are in stock at No Hype Audio, it will be a fairly painless and timely transaction.
Old 22nd April 2016
  #1322
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
Buy them from NoHype in Belgium. You get them by air. He has the best connection for mics and relieves the maker of retail headaches, which is how the maker likes it. JP is a good dude and everyone on the board has had good experiences with him.

JP can tell you the wait time or perhaps even a visit to his web page will list it. There is no quicker way than JP, or better way.
Thanks, I figured that would be the case. And yes both cm3 and om1 are listed as out of stock, I figured they are on back order hence asking about a wait time.
Old 22nd April 2016
  #1323
If you are serious about the purchase, do contact JP/ No Hype Audio ASAP. He will place you on his wait list for the microphone(s). The longer you wait to contact him, the further out on the list you will be. : )
Old 22nd April 2016
  #1324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Mozart 'Gran Partita' Serenade no.10 for winds in B flat major, movement 5 (Romance-Adagio)....13 wind players (incl a string bass) recorded today in a small inner city Baptist church, some traffic outside. CM3 pair, NOS, about 9 feet high.
Photo is from an earlier rehearsal, in a different church
Great ! Full sound is very important for these instruments.
Old 23rd April 2016
  #1325
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jpgerard's Avatar
Hey guys, thanks! Well I thought that 2016 was going to be better in terms of CM3 and OM1 availability. Then Roger told me not long ago that another capsule parts issue had popped up so all of a sudden I couldn't get my monthly quota and ended up again out of stock in the middle of the month. Looks like both models will be in by early May and by June stocks should be replenished as "usual". it's still a bit more volatile than I'd wish but it is what it is. Roger can't increase his prod. capacity and that's fine because when a small boutique manufacturer starts to increase production capacity, real problems occur. I do have two CM3's but they're the left overs from my QC and are a bit further apart in terms of sensitivity than I'd like so I can't sell them as a pair and most orders come for matched pairs... so I have two single CM3's I'm keeping for potential future matching. They're within spec but just that little bit further apart compared to the norm. Makes sense? Anyway, OM1's suffered from a recent surge in CM3 demand again so I couldn't get as many as I wished and ended up also out. Roger can only make so many mics in a month. SO: I'm looking at early May for more CM3's and OM1's. I have CMEH shockmounts and I even have a couple of 8MP's. 2MP's will be in stock in May as well. With some luck there will be a little drop in demand in summer and I can ask Roger for a larger shipment. But I sort of gave up the idea of being fully stocked at all times... yes, I still work with a waiting list at the moment, so feel free to drop me an Email and shipping can be expected in early/mid May. Thanks!
Old 24th April 2016
  #1326
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Has anyone purchased and used the Wide ORTF mic clip, 3D printed from Shapeways ? Wide ORTF-CM3 (F9QV4WQ7A) by SRSRecordingServices

It looks as if it could be a good compromise between the regular ORTF and NOS spacings...for which Shapeways also make a clip holder, not to mention a Norman/Boojum/Faulkner phased array bar....designated as the PAM in the link below

Custom Microphone Clips by SRSRecordingServices - Shapeways Shops
Old 24th April 2016
  #1327
Gear Addict
 
voltronic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Has anyone purchased and used the Wide ORTF mic clip, 3D printed from Shapeways ? Wide ORTF-CM3 (F9QV4WQ7A) by SRSRecordingServices

It looks as if it could be a good compromise between the regular ORTF and NOS spacings...for which Shapeways also make a clip holder, not to mention a Norman/Boojum/Faulkner phased array bar....designated as the PAM in the link below

Custom Microphone Clips by SRSRecordingServices - Shapeways Shops
I bought one a little while ago but have yet to use it. Pictured below with one of my DIY shockmounts, which use the softer 62-shore Rycote lyres, specifically built for the CM3s.

According to the Sengpiel visualization site, this setup should yield an SRA of 121.3 deg as opposed to the 104 deg you get from subcards in NOS, which I and apparently many others use with the CM3s.

About that phased array bar - it's clearly based on the Faulkner setup, but for whatever reason the subcards are spaced at 41cm rather than the typical 47 cm for that setup.
Attached Thumbnails
CM3 - really THAT good?-cm3wideortf.jpg  
Old 24th April 2016
  #1328
Lives for gear
Yes Shapeways also make one for the Schoeps mics which feature the same dimension for the inner pair, this time designed for use with the active (remote) cables on the mic capsules: PAM CMC62H/CMC621 w/KC Active Cables (8VS8TGT88) by SRSRecordingServices

I guess you could just slide the mic bodies a little further into the holders and then measure..since they are angled, it wouldn't require each being pushed in by much to attain 47cms ?

Those are neat looking right angle XLR's...did you make them yourself or buy them ?
Old 24th April 2016
  #1329
Gear Addict
 
voltronic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Those are neat looking right angle XLR's...did you make them yourself or buy them ?
They are custom cables made by Ted Gakidis (GAKables) on TapersSection. (You need an account to view his sales thread.) He also makes cables for Telefunken, but they are not custom and are more expensive. Quality and service are outstanding; many members there use him as well as Robb Reicha (Darktrain).

They are milspec silver-clad copper with white Teflon wrapping, and I asked Ted to make mine fully covered with Techflex as well as using black XLRs with black epoxy. Here are some more pics of these cables with my modest equipment.
Attached Thumbnails
CM3 - really THAT good?-01_gak25ftblackchopped_01.jpg   CM3 - really THAT good?-02_gak25ftblackchopped_02.jpg   CM3 - really THAT good?-03_gak70d_01.jpg   CM3 - really THAT good?-04_gak70d_02.jpg   CM3 - really THAT good?-05_gak70d_03.jpg  

CM3 - really THAT good?-06_faulkeriiarray.jpg  
Old 25th April 2016
  #1330
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvin100 View Post
I might try that with Little Blondies...
Did you ever get around to trying the Faulkner/jnorman/boojum array with CM3s and little blondies?
Old 25th April 2016
  #1331
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by voltronic View Post
They are milspec silver-clad copper with white Teflon wrapping, and I asked Ted to make mine fully covered with Techflex as well as using black XLRs with black epoxy. Here are some more pics of these cables with my modest equipment.
Very elegant and robust looking, I wonder are they flexible enough for your liking...they look a bit stiff and resistant to bending ?
Old 25th April 2016
  #1332
Gear Addict
 
voltronic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Very elegant and robust looking, I wonder are they flexible enough for your liking...they look a bit stiff and resistant to bending ?
They bend just fine, but not too much - it makes coiling without tangling much easier. His standard build for an XLR pair is more like that pictured here, with the last couple feet uncovered. I had had him rebuild this cable for me as well as a second pair because the bright white teflon wrap was drawing too much attention in front of an audience. So the result is my earlier post - fully covered with black Techflex, and with further customized connectors. The result looks dark gray from a distance. (And no, this cable does not come in a black jacket, at least Ted does not stock it.)
Attached Thumbnails
CM3 - really THAT good?-gak25ft.jpg  
Old 25th April 2016
  #1333
Lives for gear
 

That's a nice cable to work with.. soldering "silver-on-copper" is nice.

I think I use the exact same cable since ten years back, but only for some duties. The shield is thin and does not work as well as a Reussien shield (Gotham for example) according to my measurements.

For live recordings I prefer star quad with Reussien shield, calmes my nerves. :-)
Old 28th April 2016
  #1334
Gear Nut
I'll apologize (in advance) for the stupid question I have. But, hey, I know nothing about recordings yet -- though I think I've learned lots since joining this forum! Also, it's slightly off-topic (no exactly CM3 related), but it's about the mic holders by SRSRecordingServices, that were suggested above.

Anyways: what's the diference between setting up an ORTF with the mics on the same horizontal level and setting up so the mics are so one is higher than the other?

Thanks!
Attached Thumbnails
CM3 - really THAT good?-ortf-top.jpg   CM3 - really THAT good?-ortf-same-level.jpg  
Old 28th April 2016
  #1335
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Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VlaVlnPlayer View Post
...what's the difference between setting up an ORTF with the mics on the same horizontal level and setting up so the mics are so one is higher than the other?
It's about the length of the microphones. Long microphones in ORTF can interfere with each other unless vertically offset a bit so the back ends can cross. Short mics like the CM3 might not have this problem, so can be on the same horizontal level without interfering with each other. This offset doesn't audibly effect the sound AFAIK.
Old 29th April 2016
  #1336
Gear Addict
 
voltronic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
It's about the length of the microphones. Long microphones in ORTF can interfere with each other unless vertically offset a bit so the back ends can cross. Short mics like the CM3 might not have this problem, so can be on the same horizontal level without interfering with each other. This offset doesn't audibly effect the sound AFAIK.
The other thing you need to keep in mind are the XLR connectors and cables coming out of the back of the mics. The "Wide ORTF" clip for the CM3 probably only works well with chopped / angled XLR connectors such as those you see on my custom cables. (I don't have any cables with non-chopped ends to try.) If you look at my earlier post showing the SRS clip with my DIY Rycote Lyre mount, the connectors are only a few mm away from touching said lyres. Had I cables with full-size connectors, boot and all, then the connectors would almost certainly touch the lyres, and/or the cables themselves might press against each other where they exit the strain relief boot. That may or may not be an issue depending on what cables you're using.
Old 29th April 2016
  #1337
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by voltronic View Post
The other thing you need to keep in mind are the XLR connectors and cables coming out of the back of the mics.
The offset mic arrangement (photo 1 above) allows you to use full length XLR connectors, because they will sit happily with one above the other, not touching...make sure you tape or clip the cables to the top of the stand in a loop, so that they aren't in contact with one another, as this can allow transmission of vibration from the floor (via the stand) to affect the microphones.

In the case of photo 2 you'll find the 'equal level' mic arrangement limits the length of XLR connectors, as voltronic has mentioned here...which is why he's using the "chopped" XLR connectors you see earlier in this thread
Old 29th April 2016
  #1338
Gear Nut
@voltronic and @studer58 -- Thanks for your answers!
Old 7th May 2016
  #1339
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Spent all last week recording music for film. Wonderfully quirky, oddball stuff, with plenty of percussion, tubas, gypsy violins, kazoos, accordions etc. etc. Did the lot with either the CM3, or JP's ribbon, the LRM1. Feel I could just about do a whole album with just those two plus a 57 - and perhaps something for vocals. I had other mics, and other good mics, but somehow, once I started using the CM3 (and LRM1), except for breaking out a Royer R121 a couple of times, just didn't feel the need for them.
Old 18th May 2016
  #1340
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Lorenzop's Avatar
 

mail him for details he'll reply fast.
Old 23rd May 2016
  #1341
Lives for gear
An interesting comparison of the 2 Line Audio SD mics with a digital Clavinova piano. The piano sound is helpful as it was a preset song, so volume and playing are identical in both samples. Mic placement is identical also, and while it's arguably not optimal for either pair, it gives at least a sense of how each pair responds to the room. Some gain matching between the 2 pairs of mics was done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye3UiaxyPdI

In this particular context, they're closer in sound than I might have expected.
Old 23rd May 2016
  #1342
Lives for gear
BTW there's a DIY thread on the Taperssection forum for those wanting to try their hand at the shortened, right-angled cable exit XLR connectors, similar to those shown above by voltronic : DIY- Custom Right Angle Shortie MIL Spec Silver XLR cable
Old 31st May 2016
  #1343
I just posted a review of these mics on my website: Line Audio CM3 Review – Electric Hotel Studios
Old 3rd June 2016
  #1344
Here for the gear
 

Another example of CM3s in action, together with OM1s:

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/r...es/sample1.wav

Configuration: Faulkner array (CM3 41cm apart, OM1 67cm apart).

The violin is augmented (though only slightly) by an X/Y stereo spot (2 X DPA 2011) to pick it out a little more, but most of what you hear is the Line Audio mics.

No processing other than balancing the levels from the 3 pairs of mics.
Old 9th June 2016
  #1345
Here for the gear
 

So after finding the CM3 and this thread here I thought I'd get a pair, what could go wrong at that price? Being a live engineer currently working at a 400 ppl event center the main thing that interests me about microphones is feedback resistance and off-axis response. For anyone who ever worked in this environment both should be obvious. The smaller the venue the more issues you have with feedback and in a live situation with multiple instruments on stage you always have bleed and thus you want the sound coming at the microphone off-axis to sound as natural as possible.

Given that the CM3 is a wide cardioid I was especially skeptical about the feedback resistance but expected a relatively natural off-axis response. But BOY did the CM3 deliver on both ends! I used it to pick up a choir and while I normally used two Sennheiser e914 I simply put the CM3 in the same spot. I EASILY got 10dB more gain before feedback with these, I was seriously impressed. And the sound was just great, very natural and it picked up the whole coir very evenly, the wide cardioid worked very well there.

On another occasion I used them as overheads for a percussionist with a couple of congas, bongos and whole slew of other percussion instruments. I had a few SM57 close-miking the congas but honestly, the CM3s picked up most everything faithfully and with a lot of punch so that I didn't even need the close mics. I basically just put a compressor on them and was done with it.

So a big thumbs up from my side for these microphones, also for live situations. An amazing value for that price.
Old 14th June 2016
  #1346
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jpgerard's Avatar
I've received similar comments from customers and at first it seemed odd - then I realized that the CM3 is so flat, it's actually difficult to trigger feedback using it on stage. Yes, it's wider than the usual Cardioid, but there are no HF peaks... most SDC's have either a wide smooth boost in the top end or at the budget end, peaks that can easily trigger feedback, even if they have a narrow front lobe. The CM3 is much flatter and as such doesn't feedback at HF that easily.
Old 14th June 2016
  #1347
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
I've received similar comments from customers and at first it seemed odd - then I realized that the CM3 is so flat, it's actually difficult to trigger feedback using it on stage. Yes, it's wider than the usual Cardioid, but there are no HF peaks... most SDC's have either a wide smooth boost in the top end or at the budget end, peaks that can easily trigger feedback, even if they have a narrow front lobe. The CM3 is much flatter and as such doesn't feedback at HF that easily.
Yes, exactly. Thats why you do yourself a favor using "good" microphones and speakers in live situations. Cheap mics and speakers might sound very good if you have a source recorded in front of the microphone and play it back through the speakers standing right in front of them. But as soon as you get on stage and the pattern of both mic and speaker is less than linear off-axis you might get the odd peak for certain frequencies and in the worst case these are at angles that directly "look at each other" on stage and boom, you get feedback.

This, counter-intuitively, is why cheap microphones might work better in the studio than on stage
Old 15th June 2016
  #1348
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scorpix74's Avatar
I've used KM184 on drums last week and it sounded pretty good (maybe my fault )
How does the CM3 compare in that area?
Old 15th June 2016
  #1349
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpix74 View Post
I've used KM184 on drums last week and it sounded pretty good (maybe my fault )
How does the CM3 compare in that area?
I would say the km184 is brighter, cm3 has a more neutral sound, the cm3 is more honest, it will sound less exciting in the high end, but I prefer that, however the neumann is still a great microphone, but compare the price of them and the cm3 is impressive, it punches well above it's weight.
Old 15th June 2016
  #1350
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