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CM3 - really THAT good? Condenser Microphones
Old 12th January 2014
  #841
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Don S's Avatar
 

I just snagged a pair of these off the GS classified. I'll post some samples soon. Can't wait to try them after reading so much about them.
Old 12th January 2014
  #842
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Tommy-boy's Avatar
 

Loved that video. I'm also curious on how the string instrument is mic'd. I'd also like to know what that thing is.

-Tom
Old 12th January 2014
  #843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy-boy View Post
I'd also like to know what that thing is.
Hi Tom,

It's a Kora.

Kora (instrument) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Very nice video - thanks for posting.

Joe

Last edited by JoeDeF; 12th January 2014 at 07:26 AM.. Reason: added a space
Old 12th January 2014
  #844
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The Listener's Avatar
Yes, it's a kora, it was miced with one Gefell M70, but majority of sound came from its internal pick up since there was too much percussion in that mic... kora is a rather silent instrument... I had to do much tweaking of that DIed sound to make it decent... you could hear how it sounded in a rough mix that I posted before...

Percussion also had Isomax II omni inside udu drum, sm57 inside calabash and beyerdynamics m99 behind cajon that is not used for this song... Ksm141 are very ok as percussion overheads.

Thanks for kind words.

edit: and another use of CM3 on the piano (upright this time): http://vimeo.com/82362049 (I already posted the youtube version in a thread where I asked for advice on recording upright piano, but vimeo has nicer sound - as a side note - it seems more and more of our jobs will be recording sound and music for videos that will end up primarily or exclusively on online streaming platforms... and even if people watch some concert on a television or on a DVD, the vast majority of concert and other music event viewing is done on youtube and vimeo - yet it is still important how you do it, like you can still judge if it is a good or bad recording/mix even on an mp3 player)
Old 16th January 2014
  #845
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
Yes, it's a kora, it was miced with one Gefell M70, but majority of sound came from its internal pick up since there was too much percussion in that mic... kora is a rather silent instrument... I had to do much tweaking of that DIed sound to make it decent... you could hear how it sounded in a rough mix that I posted before...

Percussion also had Isomax II omni inside udu drum, sm57 inside calabash and beyerdynamics m99 behind cajon that is not used for this song... Ksm141 are very ok as percussion overheads.

Thanks for kind words.

edit: and another use of CM3 on the piano (upright this time): Hardlistener on Vimeo (I already posted the youtube version in a thread where I asked for advice on recording upright piano, but vimeo has nicer sound - as a side note - it seems more and more of our jobs will be recording sound and music for videos that will end up primarily or exclusively on online streaming platforms... and even if people watch some concert on a television or on a DVD, the vast majority of concert and other music event viewing is done on youtube and vimeo - yet it is still important how you do it, like you can still judge if it is a good or bad recording/mix even on an mp3 player)
I like that you used paintings for gobos in the trio video - nice 'artsy' touch!
Old 16th January 2014
  #846
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for whatever its worth, the quad hockey ambiences I recorded for ecfields are done entirely with CM3s. They handle transients a little slower than schoeps mics, which I find pleasing for ambient recordings. There are downloadable full res samples on the site.

echo | collective: fields | Pro Hockey Ambiences
Old 16th January 2014
  #847
nkf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renec View Post
for whatever its worth, the quad hockey ambiences I recorded for ecfields are done entirely with CM3s. They handle transients a little slower than schoeps mics, which I find pleasing for ambient recordings. There are downloadable full res samples on the site.

echo | collective: fields | Pro Hockey Ambiences
That's also my impression and sometimes this can be a benefit as it acts like a very tiny compression. Recently I used one of my CM3s for a floor tom and the sound was very nice, round and full for a close mic. The drummer liked the sound too and was surprised how much the CM3 costs - probably a new customer. For this session I had some of my DPA/B&K and Schoeps to choose from. Although one of the first reasons the CM3 came to mind was my concern the drummer could accidentally hit the Schoeps … but the CM3 proved itself as a quality substitution in this session.
Old 29th January 2014
  #848
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Hi,

After incorporating your very useful suggestions a few months ago, I recorded my son's piano playing again:

Bach Prelude and Fugue, Book 1, g minor, BWV 861 (Prelude) - YouTube

2 CM3 quasi-ORTF, about 100-110 degree, 180 cm away from the edge of the piano, with a height of about 160 cm, into a cheap Steinberg UR22, then into a Mac.

Thanks a lot for your comments and suggestions.
Old 29th January 2014
  #849
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Hi,

After incorporating your very useful suggestions a few months ago, I recorded my son's piano playing again:

Bach Prelude and Fugue, Book 1, g minor, BWV 861 (Prelude) - YouTube

2 CM3 quasi-ORTF, about 100-110 degree, 180 cm away from the edge of the piano, with a height of about 160 cm, into a cheap Steinberg UR22, then into a Mac.

Thanks a lot for your comments and suggestions.
Old 30th January 2014
  #850
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kc248 View Post
Hi,

After incorporating your very useful suggestions a few months ago, I recorded my son's piano playing again:

Bach Prelude and Fugue, Book 1, g minor, BWV 861 (Prelude) - YouTube

2 CM3 quasi-ORTF, about 100-110 degree, 180 cm away from the edge of the piano, with a height of about 160 cm, into a cheap Steinberg UR22, then into a Mac.

Thanks a lot for your comments and suggestions.
Beautiful sound and playing
Once again shows us CM3 as a fine piano-microphone.

::
Mads
Old 30th January 2014
  #851
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scorpix74's Avatar
Do you guys ever used it on hihat or guitar cab?
Old 30th January 2014
  #852
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jpgerard's Avatar
I like it a lot on cymbals, including HH. Never harsh, unless the source itself is.
Old 30th January 2014
  #853
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scorpix74's Avatar
I forget: Snare in addition to a 57 or I5?
Old 31st January 2014
  #854
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kc248 View Post
Hi,

After incorporating your very useful suggestions a few months ago, I recorded my son's piano playing again:

Bach Prelude and Fugue, Book 1, g minor, BWV 861 (Prelude) - YouTube

2 CM3 quasi-ORTF, about 100-110 degree, 180 cm away from the edge of the piano, with a height of about 160 cm, into a cheap Steinberg UR22, then into a Mac.

Thanks a lot for your comments and suggestions.
Lovely! Thank you for sharing that. You must be very proud...of your son...and your recording too
Old 31st January 2014
  #855
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Hi Mljung and jimjazzdad,

Thanks a lot for your kind words. Yes, I cannot be more proud of my son. In terms of recording, if there is any good thing about it, it is because the wonderful education available on this website. Thank you.
Old 24th February 2014
  #856
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Hi,

I am looking for a couple good mics to record my piano, low budget but good enough to make cd demos. I am pretty much a newbie in home recording and I'm writing here as this seems to be one of the most complete thread on the CM3.

- Do you think line audio CM3 are the best mics for piano recording in their price range?

- I am a little worried of the low output of this mic. I am worried I will need to increase gain or volume too much risking to show noise or decrease quality.
I had to increase volume at max to hear it in many samples uploaded in this thread but I still find some of them too low. How do you deal this when recording? Maybe the preamps of the interface affect the volume recording?

- Speaking of interface what kind of entry level audio interface you suggest to best match with a couple CM3 (I am leaning towards of Focusrite 2i2)?

Thanks for your tips
Old 24th February 2014
  #857
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerva44 View Post
- Do you think line audio CM3 are the best mics for piano recording in their price range?
Yes I do while I have tested a lot of mics on my piano.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerva44 View Post
- I am a little worried of the low output of this mic. I am worried I will need to increase gain or volume too much risking to show noise or decrease quality.
6 mV/Pa is usually much enough for not being a cause of signal-to-noise ratio limitation, the self noise of the microphone being higher than the self-noise of the preamp: the higher is the microphone sensitivity, the higher is the signal level at the preamp input but also the higher is the microphone self-noise level. Once the microphone self-noise level is higher than the preamp self-noise level there is nearly no benefit in higher microphone sensitivity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nerva44 View Post
I had to increase volume at max to hear it in many samples uploaded in this thread but I still find some of them too low. How do you deal this when recording? Maybe the preamps of the interface affect the volume recording?
This may be due to your listening system having not enough gain or to the recording level being too low. Anyway any microphone preamp has enough gain for making clip a piano recording done with CM3. Normal gain for piano recording with CM3 is less than 40 dB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerva44 View Post
Speaking of interface what kind of entry level audio interface you suggest to best match with a couple CM3 (I am leaning towards of Focusrite 2i2)?
IMO, the impact from the preamp and the converter on the audio quality is much less than the one from the microphone and most often hardly audible even when comparing a cheap interface with a much expensive one. Any recent USB 2-mic channels interface should be convenient. Just check that the Windows or Mac drivers work well. Scarlett 2i2 or Steinberg UR22 seem being OK.
Old 25th February 2014
  #858
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That makes sense, thanks for the fast reply!

I really appreciated your precious comparison link, I will check it later from my desktop with better headphones.

Glad to know preamp of the interface will not affect sound volume and quality too much. I am pretty much sold on the Audio Line mics, it seems I will be able to have a good recording setup within my budget.

I was also considering a Zoom H4n for portable on the fly recording and as interface for the CM3 for better recording, but I am worried about interface quality of the H4n being primary a pocket recorder and not a real dedicated interface as Focusrite or Steinberg.

Do you think a couple CM3 connected to the Zoom H4n only, will have similar quality result to a pair of CM3 connect to Focusrite 2i2 or Steinberg UR22 with laptop?

Maybe I should better spend my money on H2n for fast recordings and CM3 with 2i2 / UR22 for quality recording needs.

Thanks again
Old 25th February 2014
  #859
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I'd think the CM3s plugged into the H2n would make for a better (and less problematic at record time) recording. It wouldn't be great for real time work on a DAW, but record, then transfer to the computer and you're golden.
Old 25th February 2014
  #860
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerva44 View Post
I really appreciated your precious comparison link
All these takes are different. Here below links to comparisons within a single take:
CM3 vs. Schoeps MK 21
CM3 vs. Josephson C42, Schoeps MK 21
CM3 vs. Rode NT5, Oktava MK-012, Schoeps MK 21

CM3 vs.Audio-Technica AT4041, Oktava MK-012, Schoeps MK 21

CM3 vs Schoeps MK 21, Josephson C42, DPA 4021
Old 25th February 2014
  #861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grawk View Post
I'd think the CM3s plugged into the H2n would make for a better (and less problematic at record time) recording. It wouldn't be great for real time work on a DAW, but record, then transfer to the computer and you're golden.
Thanks but you mean a pair af CM3's with a H4n, correct? The H4n has two XLR input while the H2n only 1 3.5mm input. Would it possible to connect CM3's to a H2n?
Old 25th February 2014
  #862
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H4n, or any of the tascams or the korg recorders with xlr inputs, correct. Or use an external preamp.
Old 28th February 2014
  #863
Gear Nut
I use my H4n with my pair of CM3s all the time, admittedly I'm recording fairly loud reheasals with this, but it also captures all the room chit chat, and even the fan noise on the other side of the drumkit without any problem.

A note about wind noise, the CM3s are really really delicate when it comes to any wond, the slightly breath of it and you need a pop shield, they are incredibly sensitive, said drummer's fan was 'pointing the wrong way honest mate' and it really becomes noticeable.

Other than that though, these are phenominal little mics, I normally use them with my UCX if I'm recording something in stereo, its only in a reheasal situation I pair them up with the H4n on board mics (as a drum OH) to better capture whats going on in the room.
Old 28th February 2014
  #864
Gear Nut
I use my H4n with my pair of CM3s all the time, admittedly I'm recording fairly loud reheasals with this, but it also captures all the room chit chat, and even the fan noise on the other side of the drumkit without any problem.

A note about wind noise, the CM3s are really really delicate when it comes to any wind, the slightly breath of it and you need a pop shield, they are incredibly sensitive, said drummer's fan was 'pointing the wrong way honest mate' and it really becomes noticeable - even having been dispersed significantly by the drum kit.

Other than that though, these are phenominal little mics, I normally use them with my UCX if I'm recording something in stereo, its only in a reheasal situation I pair them up with the H4n on board mics (as a drum OH) to better capture whats going on in the room.
Old 15th March 2014
  #865
I just bought a brand-new pair of CM3s, which replace the Little Blondies I sold off. First impressions compared to the OM1s is that the CM3 is actually lower in output by some 4 db (despite the specs being only 2db lower). The sound character is very similar to the OM1s too. I little less bassy, but not by much, less than the frequency response graphs would indicate. The OM1's rear sound quality is very natural and close in loudness to front sound quality (down a few db only) and the CM3's rear sound quality is quite natural too, and down between 5 to 8 db). Comparing the CM3 to the LB, the latter is smaller, but much, much noisier (unacceptably noisy to my ears), and the sound character of the LB is sharp like a needle, and voices don't sound natural, they sound too razor-sharp, but the CM3 sounds more natural.

I'm working on a recording comparison on the CM3 versis OM1 right now and will post soon.
Old 16th March 2014
  #866
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Besides the Zoom, the Tascam DR-60d has been selling for $199 including a copy of plural eyes at B & H Photo recently. The reason I bring this up is that it has some features to make it easier to connect to the audio input of a camcorder if you started thinking about making videos of your son playing the piano. Downside of the 60d is you'll get about 2-2 1/2 hours before having to replace the AA's on phantom power. You can extend the recording time by using an external battery pack.

If you don't need portability and long battery life, I think you'd be fine with a pair of CM3s and a Focusrite 2i2. I don't know of a better or more affordable option for recording piano without spending much, much more.
Old 19th March 2014
  #867
I have the CM3 and 2i2. The latter works very well off of USB power, and sounds the same as the 2i4 which I also own. Both work off Windows Vista fine, as one of my laptops is Vista.
Old 19th March 2014
  #868
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Don S's Avatar
 

Thanks for posting this. I spent an hour listening! For Some reason, I kept coming back to a favorite (and under rated) M149 out of all of them.
Old 3rd April 2014
  #869
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Ordered a pair today!

I will upload some audio when they arrive.
Old 5th April 2014
  #870
Gear Nut
 

Hello All

I've come accross the CM3 and have so much interest. I've listened to many samples and they sound fantastic. Very neutral and detailed. I'm in need of two mics for some Piano Recital that I must do. I will be using the soon to be released CEntrance MixerFace along with TwistedWave.

Is there anything else I need to know or should consider before buying these mics? The data just seems too good to pass up for the cost and quality.
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