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Best Reverb(s) for Classical Music? Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 10th September 2012
  #91
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sonare's Avatar
Interesting idea, but 2 things: it's already been done, and the character of the reverb is more important than the quantity. Plexiglass usually doesn't make for a pleasing sound. And the average court is bright and somewhat mid-rangey.

Reverb by mail would be a real hit-or-miss affair (like racquetball).

Rich
Old 11th September 2012
  #92
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boojum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathedral Guitar View Post
I don't know if this is practical, or even worth doing, but about "reamping" your mix in the empty room (with perfect acoustics) to add to the proper reverb? Maybe if you can get the hall for free, and have some interns do it. Heck, it might even be a good business model for reverb by mail. The racquetball court I play in has amazing reverb, and I thought about setting up a battery operated system to see how it would work as a reverb chamber. I'll probably never do it, but if I get some interns I might send them down there.
We have a board member who rescued an album he recorded with just this technique. He used an excellent hall to do it.
Old 3rd October 2012
  #93
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e_MusicStudio's Avatar
 

I use a lexicon PCM91 and a lexicon 300, it sound very nice on classical instruments...you'll have a great color
Old 5th October 2012
  #94
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Plush's Avatar
For universal use, its hard to beat the Lexicon pcm 92.
Old 5th October 2012
  #95
I used Relab 480 LX on my record, some clips are in my sig. Probably most reverb on the track Remembering you.
Strings were recorded with two stereo mic pairs in a relatively dry (but good sounding) room so most of the reverb comes from Relab.
Old 6th December 2012
  #96
FBL
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FBL's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathedral Guitar View Post
I don't know if this is practical, or even worth doing, but about "reamping" your mix in the empty room (with perfect acoustics) to add to the proper reverb? Maybe if you can get the hall for free, and have some interns do it. Heck, it might even be a good business model for reverb by mail. The racquetball court I play in has amazing reverb, and I thought about setting up a battery operated system to see how it would work as a reverb chamber. I'll probably never do it, but if I get some interns I might send them down there.
If you're going to go to that extent, and have good, flat speakers, why not simply capture an IR of the hall - maybe with a selection of microphone positions. Then, with a decent IR Reverb plug-in, you can add the hall's character to any recording, any time.
Old 10th December 2012
  #97
I thought I'd add my two cents to this thread & ask a question as well.

I've had good results with acoustic music by tweaking the 'Big Dead Space' preset of the Sonnox Reverb. Worth a look.

I've alsohad GREAT results remicing through a good space & love that technique as well.

I'm now looking at the newly discounted Lexicon plug-ins. Does anyone have an opinion on using those for acoustic/classical music and if so which one would be best? I'm having trouble differentiating between the different offerings...
Old 13th May 2014
  #98
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PhoenixVerb

I've recently demoed PhoenixVerb from Exponential Audio and found it a very good tool for classical and acoustic. It sounds so natural. I like it a lot.

Curently using Altiverb and Flux but Phoenix is something special IMO.
Old 13th May 2014
  #99
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I'd certainly invite you to try the free PhoenixVerb and R2 demos at www.exponentialaudio.com. They're both used by a major classical radio broadcast organization in Northern Europe (sorry, I'm not allowed to mention the specific organization). They've also been used by a number of scoring mixers (look up Dennis Sands and Shawn Murphy, among others) for orchestral and synthesized scores. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have on the topic.

Michael

EDIT: I just now heard from SonoLuminus (high-end label making classical BluRays -- multiple Grammy nominations). They've been using PhoenixVerb on a number of recent albums. Those disks are on the way out to Utah, and I'm really looking forward to hearing them.
Old 13th May 2014
  #100
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Four years later from the initial posts, it's interesting to see where things have gone.

I'm still fond of my hardware for album work and certain broadcast work that I do. I still own my Bricasti and my Lexicon 300. They are completely different, but equally usable in different situations. When I rent verbs in the field, I usually get lexicon 960s because the Bricasti's usually aren't available from rental houses.

I use plugins, though, for anything that requires a fast turn-around and while I still own Altiverb, I have elected not to upgrade to version 7 in favor of a purchase of Exponential Audio Phoenix and R2. They are by far the best reverb plugins that I have used out there. The Phoenix fills the needs for transparent verbs, whereas the R2 gives me the vibe that I sometimes need. I'll use the Phoenix in a long-verb/short-verb situation for the short and the R2 for the long. The presets for them sound very good, but where they shine is with their ability to really get in and tweak the sound. There is rarely a setting that I don't touch- I adjust early reflections, duration, spectral content, etc.. It is all crucial to the way I work.

Congrats to Michael Carnes in creating such a great tool for the arsenal.

--Ben
Old 13th May 2014
  #101
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Uncle Russ's Avatar
Ben recommended I try the Exponential Audio reverbs and, after hours of meticulous comparisons, I understand why he prefers them.

I have a question about the R2: It has a couple of chorus related adjustments the Phoenix lacks. When I set those R2 controls to zero (turn them off) and then duplicate the settings of a similar Phoenix reverb, I find the results very close, although the R2 may have slightly more analog sounding coloration. Do I hear correctly?
Old 13th May 2014
  #102
nkf
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Some months ago I bought a licence of PhoenixVerb Surround and I can second the praises for it. I compare it to my hardware surround reverbs from Quantec, TC 6000 and Yamaha. The support of Michael to iron out small glitches and adapting PhoenixVerb to more hosts is exemplary. Sound wise it is not directly comparable to anything I own - while fairly transparent it has its own smooth 'sound' - which I like a lot - far better than other software reverbs I own. It is not substituting my particular hardware but complementing it. The only thing I miss is a second filter to get HPF and LPF at the same time.
Old 14th May 2014
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Russ View Post
I have a question about the R2: It has a couple of chorus related adjustments the Phoenix lacks. When I set those R2 controls to zero (turn them off) and then duplicate the settings of a similar Phoenix reverb, I find the results very close, although the R2 may have slightly more analog sounding coloration. Do I hear correctly?
R2 isn't a superset of PhoenixVerb (although the early sections are pretty much the same). The reverb engine is rather different between the two. Although you might get close in some cases, other settings will reveal more significant differences. The basic architecture of R2 is more colored, which will be more evident with high frequency signals.

What's really surprised me is that a lot of people use R2 for classical music. While I think PhoenixVerb is the natural choice, R2 does a nice job of fattening up recordings that might be a little on the thin side.
Old 14th May 2014
  #104
Can only agree with the praises for the Exponential audio reverbs, they are amazing. Today I'm using Phoenix for everything that's supposed to sound classical.
Old 18th May 2014
  #105
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USHI's Avatar
 

Hello,
Go for a Convolution reverb,WAVES is a nice one.
Look for VST-PLUGINS.

UshI
Old 18th May 2014
  #106
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Phoenix

Another Phoenix recommendation.

I do classical, mostly.

Initially - before v2 - I passed it up after trying because the interface got in the way for me. I couldn't instantly look at it and know what was going on, and everything was in big circles with tiny numbers! It looked impenetrable.

This was all rather frustrating as it was obvious there was a very good reverb hiding in there somewhere. I was intrigued by the exceptionally clean sound. I have a collection of recordings (mostly choral) I've done which unfailingly produce ringing and other artifacts in reverbs, but the Phoenix was unfazed (pun not intended).

When I saw the image for v2 (completely revamped GUI) on the Expo website, I knew immediately I wanted another go with it. The GUI is functionally and aesthetically excellent. Michael was easy to reach and he kindly offered another test drive. It only took about 5 minutes and I was sold.

Often I am supplementing all or parts of an acoustic. It's easy to get everything seamlessly integrated.

It's never had a single hiccup, it's operation is smooth and polished, and it presents modest loads on the CPU.

It's a great reverb.

BTW-----there's a not to be missed interview by Mike Thornton (Mr. RX'it, Pro Tools Expert, SOS contributor) with Michael Carnes. It's a great look at the history of the giant of reverb (Lex), and covers all sorts of things such as considerations of propogational delays in surround mixing, iLok, boxes v native, and tons (shed-loads) more. There is a link to that on Exponential's site and is highly recommended.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #107
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Hey¡ https://static.gearslutz.com/board/im...es/wiggle2.gif

Try IRK Multimedia reverb. It has a really good sound. Led Zeppelin´s 2007 live album was mixed using it a lot, so you can have an idea of how good is it, and has some orchestral presets. Hall and room will be ideal for you.
Old 26th April 2015
  #108
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Rumi's Avatar
Is the Lexicon Model 300 better suited for acoustic music than the 480L?
Old 26th April 2015
  #109
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Casey's Avatar
 

Yes, slightly better in my opinion.



-Casey
Old 26th April 2015
  #110
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Rumi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
Yes, slightly better in my opinion.



-Casey
Thank you, Casey!

I'm looking forward to my new Bricasti unit that should arrive in about two weeks.
Old 26th April 2015
  #111
Answering the OP's question as of 2015,

My opinion is that it depends, but Altiverb 7 pretty much covers all of the everything that you'd need anyways, but if you're looking for a specific sound, it'd a good idea to get a hardware unit. I love the EMT 250. Contrary to popular belief, I think that it's simply fantastic for classical music. Another good option is a live echo chamber if you have access to one.

Obviously we'd all like to record in better rooms with longer tails and better options for distant mics, but sometimes we don't have that luxury.

u47u67u87
Old 26th April 2015
  #112
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Pure convolution reverb (no "special covolution" which will cause awful sheen on tails) with real rooms/halls/chambers impulses aren't bad. Impulses captured from HW digital reverbs are horrible (including Nebula) and nothing like respective units.
Acon Reverberate, Phoenix and 2C Aether are great.

Lexicons (both hardware and native, they're the same minus converters) are too characterful for this type of music generally. The same goes for Valhalla. Something like TC reverbs fits better.

I know Bricasti is sort of a new standard for this, but liked old TC M3000 better. It has some endearing "digital" quality which separates a digital reverb from real. Bricasti is more like a room in the metal box.
Old 26th April 2015
  #113
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Winegarden's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
Applied to a very dry recording, Altiverb sounds similar to a real space, but brings the audio quality down considerably.
Hey aracu,

I am just wondering how this was meant. I am trying to understand how the reverb brings the audio quality down? I am very interested in this, could you perhaps elaborate? Thanks
Old 27th April 2015
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
Hey aracu,

I am just wondering how this was meant. I am trying to understand how the reverb brings the audio quality down? I am very interested in this, could you perhaps elaborate? Thanks
Hi Bobcat, I don't know what the scientific or technical facts of the matter
are, but when I process a file with Altiverb, I'm impressed with the way
in which a real space is simulated but at the same time percieve that apart
from adding reverb and it's natural blurring of details, that the overall
sound has become dirtier and more distorted.
Old 27th April 2015
  #115
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Winegarden's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
Hi Bobcat, I don't know what the scientific or technical facts of the matter
are, but when I process a file with Altiverb, I'm impressed with the way
in which a real space is simulated but at the same time percieve that apart
from adding reverb and it's natural blurring of details, that the overall
sound has become dirtier and more distorted.
Hmm, I have never noticed that. I use Altiverb 7 myself, I couldn't notice that, but I will pay attention next time I run it. Maybe I wasn't careful enough. It seems odd to me that it would become distorted/dirty, perhaps you have changed the inputs/output levels of the plugin and accidentally saved this as your default preset somehow? Or it could be a different setting that isn't set correctly?

Interesting either way.
Old 27th April 2015
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
Hi Bobcat, I don't know what the scientific or technical facts of the matter
are, but when I process a file with Altiverb, I'm impressed with the way
in which a real space is simulated but at the same time percieve that apart
from adding reverb and it's natural blurring of details, that the overall
sound has become dirtier and more distorted.
Altiverb isn't pure convolution reverb, it uses some proprietary tricks in order to make it more flexible like algorithmic reverb. This is the culprit of degradation. I decided against it for this reason.

Waves IR-1 and TL space are apparently on the same side - hybrid/proprietary algorithms and nothing like real convolution.

I use ancient Voxengo Pristine Space (x86 only) for convolution and it always yields consistent results with well recorded impulse and never degrades anything. The developer explicitly states that no "special tricks" were used and what it does is proper mathematical convolution and nothing extra. Because of that, it isn't exactly CPU friendly and will cause full load with long impulse (30s or more).
Old 27th April 2015
  #117
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massimo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
Yes, slightly better in my opinion.



-Casey
Hi Casey,
may I please ask why? Is it true or myth that the early (v. 1.xx) firmware version of the 300, before the introduction of split algos, actually sound better for "pure reverb" due to full use of the computing engine? Is this the reason?

Thank you
best regards
Massimo
Old 27th April 2015
  #118
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Rumi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringo_mod View Post
Pure convolution reverb (no "special covolution" which will cause awful sheen on tails) with real rooms/halls/chambers impulses aren't bad. Impulses captured from HW digital reverbs are horrible (including Nebula) and nothing like respective units.
Acon Reverberate, Phoenix and 2C Aether are great.

Lexicons (both hardware and native, they're the same minus converters) are too characterful for this type of music generally. The same goes for Valhalla. Something like TC reverbs fits better.

I know Bricasti is sort of a new standard for this, but liked old TC M3000 better. It has some endearing "digital" quality which separates a digital reverb from real. Bricasti is more like a room in the metal box.
Do you prefer the TC 3000 over the 6000?

I like Nebula's PCM70 samples (70small room, tiled room etc.) a lot, and seem to prefer B2 or Breeze over Aether for naturalness. Interestingly enough, I often also like R2 better than Phoenix for natural sounding spaces.
I'm leaning towards HW again these days, though.
Old 27th April 2015
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
Hmm, I have never noticed that. I use Altiverb 7 myself, I couldn't notice that, but I will pay attention next time I run it. Maybe I wasn't careful enough. It seems odd to me that it would become distorted/dirty, perhaps you have changed the inputs/output levels of the plugin and accidentally saved this as your default preset somehow? Or it could be a different setting that isn't set correctly?

Interesting either way.
Audio quality is percieved mainly by comparing one thing to another. Since starting to use Bricast M7 for reverb processing I became more aware of how the software reverbs I was using (Waves and Altiverb) were causing a percieved deterioration. Whichever reverb is being used, the audio file is undergoing destructive processing... and the result suffers negative side effects.
Old 27th April 2015
  #120
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Casey's Avatar
 

TC3000 is good on some things, real acoustic recordings is not one of them.

First it is mono. It sums left and right channels, then creates a very strong set of room reflections with the summed signal that will fight with the real room.

For mono virtual sources it is great, it just needs to be used in the right application.



-Casey
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