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Best Reverb(s) for Classical Music? Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 20th March 2012
  #61
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jnorman's Avatar
thanks for the comments, guys.

listener - yes, i am trying out flux verb session, and it is quite nice. i have inquired as to whether it is possible to purchase a version that does NOT require iLok...
Old 20th March 2012
  #62
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The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
thanks for the comments, guys.

listener - yes, i am trying out flux verb session, and it is quite nice. i have inquired as to whether it is possible to purchase a version that does NOT require iLok...
Yes, too bad for ilok, but it is worth it...

I would look at the full version to have all that tweaking available... I am also not sure if the "high density" option exists in Session. Usually I like it better when this is engaged. If you are already talking to them you might ask about that, too.
Old 27th April 2012
  #63
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these maybe worth a look if your really into reverbs.

Kineticsoundprism esoteric impulses and synth patches

new h8000 version 2 of these uses proper sine sweeps and blows away the earlier collection and the virtualworld impulse collection have pretty much ended me using any other vst reverb plugin for ambient and large spaces.

Some demos are needed.
Old 29th May 2012
  #64
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Gaston69's Avatar
Altiverb 7

I recently purchased Altiverb 7, and I am quit happy. I get better results with Altiverb then with the Lexicon PCM however I have also to admit that it has to do also how you tweak the parameter such as pre-delay etc
Old 29th May 2012
  #65
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Sudad G's Avatar
Lexicon 300 was often used in the past to simulate classical enviroments. Great church and concert halls. Awsome ambiences for cello etc.

Bricasti should be also a great choice. Very natural sound.

Sudad G
Old 29th May 2012
  #66
An important reason to use the M7 for classical is it's less self noise than any of the alternatives. If you have any quiet sections, you will appreciate that.
Old 29th May 2012
  #67
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boojum's Avatar
I guess that the Bricasti is the way to go. The other consideration, though, is cost. Many of us have small to miniscule studios with budgets to match. In these cases another way must be found, one that is not as fine but is serviceable.

I work in Samplitude and it has its in-house reverb, VariVerb Pro. It has way more controls than on the flight deck of the Starship Enterprise and I understand both just about as well. My question is has anyone been able to compare this SAM solution with the others and come away with an evaluation. This translates to "it just may work for me." Any help here??

BTW, the free, when you can find it, Kjaerhus Audio Classic Reverb is pretty good, especially when you consider the price. I find the "vocal ambient" a pretty good solution for my stuff. YMMV


Ooops, here is the Kjaerhus Audio plugin: //www.acoustica.com/plugins/vst-directx.htm
Old 29th May 2012
  #68
I have Verb Session. I think it is okay, but it is kind of a one trick pony. It takes a lot of careful tweaking to get it to sound right as does any reverb, I prefer it on a few things, but I usually get more use out of Waves IR.
Old 30th May 2012
  #69
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I have lots of reverbs here. Lex 300, Bricasti M7, Altiverb, the ones that come with Samp and Sequoia.

Since a comparison was asked- my feelings are as follows:

Hardware- Bricasti smokes all. Nothing close. The 300 is nice, but definitely has a color/vibe to the sound.

Software- Altiverb is king. The most flexible across genres of music. That being said, I still find myself going to Variverb and the room simulator on occasion. They are, IMO, rather long in the tooth and variverb can break up a bit in the tail, but both can work really well in certain situations.

My feeling is- you can never have too many tools as your disposal.

--Ben
Old 31st May 2012
  #70
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AlexK's Avatar
 

The Bricasti is the most convincing I've used, but I'm a big fan of the Sony DRE S777 as well. Amazing sounding unit and very, very convincing.

Absolute pain to use though. And takes ages to boot up.

Also very heavy.

Sounds great though.
Old 1st June 2012
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LP2006 View Post
The concert hall.
Old 3rd June 2012
  #72
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ionian's Avatar
For Classical? I'd go with a Quantec Yardstick. The samples I heard crushed anything I heard from a Bricasti or Lexicon for that kind of stuff. I wouldn't go with Quantec for pop or for a pop vocal, but I think for classical it kills.

Check the samples here:

Sound Clips : QUANTEC Audio Pro

No comparison.

Regards,
Frank
Old 3rd September 2012
  #73
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There is no doubt a great deal of love goes to Lex 224/X/L & 480L's & 300M/L's alongside TC 6000/4000 - Though for pure "Classical Music" a Bricasti M7 with V.2 Software or a Quantec QRS is certainly going to make the most economic sense and in terms of Serviceability and reliability the Bricasti & Quantec just can't be beaten. There is a huge difference between those natural spatial simulations and they way those reverbs work compared to Something like a Lexicon PCM 92. I'd also worry if Harman will keep Lexicon in Pro Audio (Reverb) for much longer! I doubt you'll ever see another Lexicon Hardware unit again! (It almost feels now Lexicon have the Native Plug In's out they have been absolved of all PCM-96 responsibility, I'd give those units a service life of 5 years max!

I Think you've made the right choice 100%! (Even though I find Bricasti a touch to real....like walking into a canyon - shouting, & then hearing exactly the verbatim reply with Verb! Sorry - JMHO.)
Old 3rd September 2012
  #74
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jnorman's Avatar
"Dr T's Music Studio" - thanks for reminding me of that! i remember falling in love with my first computer just because of this wonderful little piece of software.

i wound up buying a copy of flux verb session, and also tried a demo copy of altiverb. altiverb was a tad better, though 5 times as expensive, and with tweaking, i can get verb session to sound very very nice. i dont think my search is quite over yet, though... i may check out the quantec, and i hve heard a rumor about a plug version of bricasti. absolutely essential, though, is the ability to easily integrate reverb into my DAW and workflow.
Old 3rd September 2012
  #75
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I don't think anything has the power to run a Plug In of a Bricasti at the moment - doubt it will ever happen, though I do understand that Quantec in their software versions are making certain "Plug In's" available with a "key" that matches the Hard Drive & Numeric Code of you mac so it can be installed in their hardware, and you can remote re-call by net instances of FX that are in the 250 presets though are not available at the time, using an IP address and a private VPN - QRS Flanger anyone?! IRCAM is....."supposed to be" an amazing bit of Software - that I have seen! Yes.......I was amazed! Wow!
Old 4th September 2012
  #76
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Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
i hve heard a rumor about a plug version of bricasti.
Nope, won't happen. We are a hardware company and could never bring the level of support Bricasti customers expect to the plugin world.

Our work is all about moving the art forward. If we went about recreating what already exists, just to put it in plugin form, we would be delaying the advances our customers count on.



-Casey
Old 4th September 2012
  #77
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massimo's Avatar
 

Hi all,
Let's say you have an acoustic music piece arranged for various string and wind instruments (3 to 6 of them or so), which was recorded by overdubbing in a dry environment. Now you want them to sound as if (well...almost) they were originally played in the same room, with some natural ambience. We know when instruments do actually "play together", their sounds interact as the harmonics blend (so to speak) in the actual space, but this was not a viable option. So I would tend to send the dry stereo mix into a reverb box rather than processing individual tracks. Goals: a) instruments should possibly retain their original position in the stereo panorama in the best possible way after processing; b) it would be great to know if reverb designers are somehow concerned with the harmonics blending thing I mentioned above while recreating the effect/experience of sound(s) in a real space. I believe the closest I have heard to what I am looking for is the Quantec Yardstick demos, but I have not searched the net extensively yet.
Do you have any specific comments?

Best regards
Massimo
Old 4th September 2012
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
For Classical? I'd go with a Quantec Yardstick. The samples I heard crushed anything I heard from a Bricasti or Lexicon for that kind of stuff. I wouldn't go with Quantec for pop or for a pop vocal, but I think for classical it kills.

Check the samples here:

Sound Clips : QUANTEC Audio Pro

No comparison.

Regards,
Frank
I listened to some of the acoustic music samples. To me they sounded way too removed from reality.
Old 4th September 2012
  #79
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The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
"Dr T's Music Studio" - thanks for reminding me of that! i remember falling in love with my first computer just because of this wonderful little piece of software.

i wound up buying a copy of flux verb session, and also tried a demo copy of altiverb. altiverb was a tad better, though 5 times as expensive, and with tweaking, i can get verb session to sound very very nice. i dont think my search is quite over yet, though... i may check out the quantec, and i hve heard a rumor about a plug version of bricasti. absolutely essential, though, is the ability to easily integrate reverb into my DAW and workflow.
Why not the full Ircam Verb? And engage the "high density" button that "Session" doesn't have... to me it mostly sounds simply "better" in "high density"... and all the nice tweaking possibilities that "Session" doesn't have - you should be able to make it sound better than Altiverb with some smart tweaking (or equal, but more tweakable and lively)

I am still waiting for good dynamic convolution REAL ROOMS impulses for Nebula... so far we have only Nebula plates and classic digital reverbs - but UAD-2 does that better - read: tweakability... which is essential for reverb (to me).
Old 6th September 2012
  #80
Gear Maniac
 
dbssound1's Avatar
 

Far and away, the room should be the best reverb.

If not, I enjoy altiverb, but that is only when I really have to.
Old 6th September 2012
  #81
Quote:
I listened to some of the acoustic music samples. To me they sounded way too removed from reality.
You're not kidding. With a $5000 unit, you'd think the examples would at least include a couple decent recordings and proper usage of reverb.
Old 7th September 2012
  #82
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Clip of Bricasti reverb on multitracked violin, inserted into Persian pop music
mix.

Share Send / sf-1.21.bricasti.violin.mp3
Old 7th September 2012
  #83
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massimo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
Clip of Bricasti reverb on multitracked violin, inserted into Persian pop music
mix.

Share Send / sf-1.21.bricasti.violin.mp3
very nice!
thanks for posting

best regards
Massimo
Old 7th September 2012
  #84
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Thanks. It's a similar process to what you were describing earlier. The violin was multitracked dry (six first violins and six second violins for background, one solo violin for forground) then each was panned independently, then reverb was applied to the stereo mix of all the violins.

Edit: the solo violin was given an independent
mix of reverb.
Old 9th September 2012
  #85
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roonsbane's Avatar
dbsound1 said:
Quote:
Far and away, the room should be the best reverb.

If not, I enjoy altiverb, but that is only when I really have to.
I am surprised that folks don't often feel that the reverb time of rooms does not work "musically" for styles of music or groups. I get to work in some great halls that were purpose built for certain music, and also some not so great halls, or downright bad halls for the job. Even in one of the greatest halls in the US, where I recorded 5 nights a week for 8 years, I often was hoping for a certain crowd size for the type of music I was recording. Maybe this comes from me being taught early by a handful of great teachers that a reverb time can work "musically" or it can be unmusical, fighting with the music. Very rarely is the room sound appropriate without at least a little help in the many rooms I have to regularly work in. Reverb time is different from the ratio of wet to dry mix, which is a result of distance to source with microphones. Of course, distance from source also "exposes" longer or shorter reverb times. If needed, a good reverb used tastefully and judiciously can be the equalizer here. No pun intended!
Cameron
Old 9th September 2012
  #86
Quote:
Originally Posted by roonsbane View Post
dbsound1 said:

I am surprised that folks don't often feel that the reverb time of rooms does not work "musically" for styles of music or groups. I get to work in some great halls that were purpose built for certain music, and also some not so great halls, or downright bad halls for the job. Even in one of the greatest halls in the US, where I recorded 5 nights a week for 8 years, I often was hoping for a certain crowd size for the type of music I was recording. Maybe this comes from me being taught early by a handful of great teachers that a reverb time can work "musically" or it can be unmusical, fighting with the music. Very rarely is the room sound appropriate without at least a little help in the many rooms I have to regularly work in. Reverb time is different from the ratio of wet to dry mix, which is a result of distance to source with microphones. Of course, distance from source also "exposes" longer or shorter reverb times. If needed, a good reverb used tastefully and judiciously can be the equalizer here. No pun intended!
Cameron
I often feel that part of my job is making the room appropriate for the genre of music being performed, as far as how it will be perceived by the recording listener, by using different mic techniques and placements. There is one room on campus that provides an incredible recital aesthetic but is too large to A) even fill halfway or B) provide anything less than an UNGODLY amount of verb during a vocal recital. Thus my approach in there changes from an AB pair of cardioids (the driest possibility, best for audition recordings) to NOS, to AB omnis depending on how I or the artist wants themselves to be perceived in the space (Stop me if i've told this before, but one artist who I used the NOS approach with went home and added Garbageband verb to his recording to make it sound MORE like the room did... I use omnis for him now and he and I are happier).

So thus the hall in my situations is still usually the only source of verb, and I control it to get the sound I want. Of course, there are exceptions. I just got Verb Session which works pretty well to cure any discrepancies, better than Rverb or IR-L which I was using before
Old 10th September 2012
  #87
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roonsbane's Avatar
The problem arises because most rooms can't give me back the reverb time I am looking for. My beautiful old hall that I recorded so many great concerts in sounded unbelievably dry (no time) with a full house and an orchestra on stage. Frequency response wise, it will still be unbelievable because the room is simply unreal. On the other hand, fill it with 200 of it's 1130 seats and put a great chamber quartet like borromeo quartet in it, and that hall will send shivers down your spine with 2 omnis.

I almost always use omni's if the room I am working in is good, but getting the proper reverb length, so it feels musical is the difficult part. I set my mics at the place where feel the wet/dry ratio is correct and things sound right tonally and balance wise, most often favoring a slightly dryer sound to give me a bit of control back in a proper control room. There, I am certainly not afraid to break out the verb and work with it until I get it to be complimentary to the music. That often includes extending the natural time of the room.

I guess I feel that a purest approach in a bad room, or dead room is just completely silly. It's one of the main reasons we have to fix a half dozen recordings from all around the world every day in our Performance Today mastering processes to get them to sound "appropriate". I understand if you feel you are doing an archive recording, but otherwise?
Cameron

Last edited by roonsbane; 10th September 2012 at 03:36 AM.. Reason: bad formatting
Old 10th September 2012
  #88
Quote:
Originally Posted by roonsbane View Post
The problem arises because most rooms can't give me back the reverb time I am looking for. My beautiful old hall that I recorded so many great concerts in sounded unbelievably dry (no time) with a full house and an orchestra on stage. Frequency response wise, it will still be unbelievable because the room is simply unreal. On the other hand, fill it with 200 of it's 1130 seats and put a great chamber quartet like borromeo quartet in it, and that hall will send shivers down your spine with 2 omnis.

I almost always use omni's if the room I am working in is good, but getting the proper reverb length, so it feels musical is the difficult part. I set my mics at the place where feel the wet/dry ratio is correct and things sound right tonally and balance wise, most often favoring a slightly dryer sound to give me a bit of control back in a proper control room. There, I am certainly not afraid to break out the verb and work with it until I get it to be complimentary to the music. That often includes extending the natural time of the room.

I guess I feel that a purest approach in a bad room, or dead room is just completely silly. It's one of the main reasons we have to fix a half dozen recordings from all around the world every day in our Performance Today mastering processes to get them to sound "appropriate". I understand if you feel you are doing an archive recording, but otherwise?
Cameron
Na man, you are right on point. Basically exactly what I do in those short-room or dry-room situations. Nice work!
Old 10th September 2012
  #89
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sonare's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
bumping this old thread with a new question - can a few of you describe how you tend to EQ your reverb returns for chamber music? do you tend to roll off the low end, like in pop music, or do you tend to roll off the high end to make it warmer? thanks.
Not trying to cop out--but it depends on what I hear. I use Altiverb and will trade off the big knob room tails against the AUX bus fader.

If it sounds right, it IS right. And what is right for how composer A scores may br dreck for composer B. Adding piano usually complicates things as well.

Rich
Old 10th September 2012
  #90
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Cathedral Guitar's Avatar
I don't know if this is practical, or even worth doing, but about "reamping" your mix in the empty room (with perfect acoustics) to add to the proper reverb? Maybe if you can get the hall for free, and have some interns do it. Heck, it might even be a good business model for reverb by mail. The racquetball court I play in has amazing reverb, and I thought about setting up a battery operated system to see how it would work as a reverb chamber. I'll probably never do it, but if I get some interns I might send them down there.
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