The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Tags: , , ,

recording vivaldi gloria tomorrow Condenser Microphones
Old 18th December 2010
  #1
Lightbulb recording vivaldi gloria tomorrow

Howdy all,

Tomorrow I'm going to be recording a live concert with chamber orchestra and choir of Xmas anthems, and finished off with Vivaldi's "Gloria". I'm very excited about it, it's going to be a great concert in which i'm also playing pic trumpet, and I've finally met an oboist who I can balance my part with. I'm a happy camper.

The room is very live, in a great way, and it makes a mediocre choir augmented with ringers sound INCREDIBLE. I've planned the whole recording setup out, and this is what it's going to look like:

Main pair: omni Mojave Audio 100's (preferably) or subcard Line Audio CM3's in a spaced pair/wide near-coincident pair (depending on which ones I use), close behind the conductor about 10-12ft up

backwards facing pair (for reverb/audience/pipe organ in back of the room): M/S with beyerdynamic ribbons mounted on same bar as the first pair

Kids choir spot mics: card AKG 460's (preferably) or Mojave Audio 100's in ORTF or X/Y

soloist spot mics: preferably the line audio's, but might have to be the AKG's, 1 on either side of the conductor


My question(s) is/are as follows:

I would love to use the Mojave's for the main pair, as I love the omni capsules sound on that mic. BUT I fear that it will pick up too much reverb/audience noise.

Have you folks, in doing live recordings, found that using omnis for the main pair might result in these problems?

Ive been thinking that, just to be safe I aught to use the subcardioid mics for the main pickup, but if I could keep the Mojave's up there in omni would create the best possible scenario for getting the most out of all the other mics, and would keep me from having to use the cardioid capsules on the mojave's which I kind of dread for this kind of recording (HYPED!)

So yeah, what do you guys think about using omnis as the main pair in a nice, very live acoustic, for a live concert in wintertime?



PS This concert is taking place in Parma, OH so feel free to insert any jokes you may have as well.
Old 19th December 2010
  #2
Lives for gear
 
MichaelPatrick's Avatar
 

Some thoughts about omnis in a live acoustic:

Can you place them where there's a good balance between sections such as choir, orchestra, and featured performers and soloists. For example, it's OK if soloists need a spot mic, but it's not OK if a soloist overwhelms the main mics compared with the other sections. Also, is the distance relatively balanced in relation to critical distance -- i.e. how much hall reverb for the orchestra and how much for choir? You don't want the orchestra too dry even if the choir is just right.

Directional mics can give you control of the ratios between sections, and with room mics you can mix in the hall to taste. This is the safer route but it shifts the burden of blending into post production.

I think using omnis is an skill that develops over time because you need to learn both the room and your tools too. I'm still working 4 years now to improve my omni techniques in just one room. That said, it's worth it because a few well placed mics in a nice room are a thing of beauty.
Old 19th December 2010
  #3
The group is setup at the front of the church, orchestra on floor and choir on the steps up to the altar, soloists will be halfway between the center and edge of the orchestra; orchestra is 4 violins to the left and 1 viola, 1 cello, 1 cb, oboe, pic tpt, continuo organ to the right. Each side 2 members deep and 2-3 rows from center to side with the choir DIRECTLY behind, no room for choir spot.

There is really only 1 practical place to put the stand, conveniently about 6-10 feet behind the conductor, and from there I probably have about 5 ft I can move the pair forwards and backwards, so I have enough flexibility to hopefully find that nice blend (and with any luck enough time in soundcheck!)

I am mostly worried about coughs and the sound being too live, but I should probably concentrate some attention on the balance as you said.

Thanks for the tips, any more would be welcome. Happy holidays all!
Old 19th December 2010
  #4
Lives for gear
 
MichaelPatrick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya View Post
The group is setup at the front of the church, orchestra on floor and choir on the steps up to the altar, soloists will be halfway between the center and edge of the orchestra; orchestra is 4 violins to the left and 1 viola, 1 cello, 1 cb, oboe, pic tpt, continuo organ to the right. Each side 2 members deep and 2-3 rows from center to side with the choir DIRECTLY behind, no room for choir spot.

There is really only 1 practical place to put the stand, conveniently about 6-10 feet behind the conductor, and from there I probably have about 5 ft I can move the pair forwards and backwards, so I have enough flexibility to hopefully find that nice blend (and with any luck enough time in soundcheck!)

I am mostly worried about coughs and the sound being too live, but I should probably concentrate some attention on the balance as you said.

Thanks for the tips, any more would be welcome. Happy holidays all!
If the choir is sufficiently powerful omnis might work well with that staging but the ceiling should be high since you don't want the orchestra overtaking the choir. I think spots for soloists are probably needed.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #5
Here's the first movement of the Vivaldi piece. Ended up using the Mojave omnis in AB, 11 feet up, about 7 feet from the front of the ensemble spaced a little bit more than 2 ft apart as the main pair.

I was suprised how direct the sound was, even with omnis. I almost wish I would've put the mains back a little bit, but I think it worked really well all things considered.

I used just a little EQ at 110 and 220 because the A was REALLY speaking loud from the contrabass in the room, and needed balanced a bit. Then out through my mixer, through my 747 with only the tube button pushed in (thought the ensemble sounded better with some tube smoothing, they aren't the tightest if you can't tell) and back in to protools to track. Pretty simple!
Attached Files

Vivaldi - Gloria In Excelsis.mp3 (3.68 MB, 168 views)

Old 22nd December 2010
  #6
Lives for gear
 
tenor39's Avatar
 

Outstanding for a two mic recording!thumbsup Nicely done!!

Re-read the OP. Did you use multiple mic's for this? Still sounds great!

Last edited by tenor39; 22nd December 2010 at 06:06 AM.. Reason: Forgot to read the OP!
Old 22nd December 2010
  #7
Lives for gear
 
boojum's Avatar
Beautiful room, beautiful group, beautiful recording. It may be me but I would like the omnis a bit closer. It seems there is a lessening in the middle. But only slightly. It is an excellent recording. In two words: well done!
Old 22nd December 2010
  #8
I ended up using:

the main pair of omnis

a wide XY at mouth height in front of the kids choir (dead center and on the floor in the choir)

and 2 soloist mics flanking the ensemble, which here I have panned hard L-R.

6 mics total

The mix is 95 percent omnis with a bit of the XY to bring the kids out a bit in the choir mix (my friend, the conductor who I recorded the concert for loves Simon Preston's men and boys choir recordings, so I thought i'd try to bring some of that sound out for him) and the soloist mics up just enough that it's slightly noticeable when you mute them. I was playing and found they [soloist mics] helped to add clarity to some orchestral parts, and added some width due to their symmetrical placement wide on either side of the ensemble. I liked the way it sounded so I left them in.
Old 24th December 2010
  #9
Smile Merry christmas all!

Have a Merry Christmas everyone!
Attached Files

Uschold - 03Away In A Manger.mp3 (6.79 MB, 318 views)

Top Mentioned Products
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
BCAUTS / So much gear, so little time
41
celerysux / Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show and Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs
0
Petrus / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
6
Yetti / So much gear, so little time
27

Forum Jump
Forum Jump