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Any ECM slutz in this house? Condenser Microphones
Old 6th January 2006
  #1
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Thread Starter
Talking Any ECM slutz in this house?

Hi just wondering if anyone else besides me is into the ECM label, and particularly engineers Jan Erik Kongshaug, and Martin Wieland?

Jack Dejohnette and Chick Corea Ruda and Daitya?

Dave Holland Emerald Tears?

John Surman? Karin Krog, Pierre Favre..Such Winters of Memory--a masterpiece

..SART....
Eberhard Weber? my god listen to that bass tone!(and also Eberhard is tearing shix up on the new Kate Bush)

I'm always taken by the dry honesty of the sounds paired with the excellent musicianship.

Room sounds are so nice. plus all mine is on vinyl so there's that.

just wondering if anyone else here likes that stuff?
Old 6th January 2006
  #2
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Count me in!
A lot of friends of mine have recorded with Jan Erik in Oslo.
He does great work.
He is a pretty decent guitarist as well.
What I like most is the sound he has developed, you can tell his work from a mile away.

kjetil
Old 6th January 2006
  #3
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarembo
Dave Holland Emerald Tears?
An unbelievable album that is. For those that haven't heard it, it's all solo upright bass and it's amazingly musical, poetic and daring. Incredible!


Some other random ECM faves:

Pat Metheny- Bright size life + 80/81
ChickCorea/Gary Burton- Crystal silence
Keith Jarrett - Belonging
Ralph Towner/Gary Peacock- Oracle

I dig the fact that the classical ECM albums really have a 'sound'. Sometimes it may be a bit too ethereal and icy for my taste but it's something that's missing in today's 'retro jazz' climate. Like Blue Note in the late 50ies and 60ies, this identity was also represented in the cover art.

I don't like the way these albums have been transfered to CD for the most part though. I remember an interview where Pat Metheny, who left ECM a long time ago, complained about this. There hasn't been any real remastering done and that's a shame. A lot of these recordings really are sterile and thin-sounding on CD.
Old 6th January 2006
  #4
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Thread Starter
Agree about the sound of the CD reissues. pretty lifeless....

You know that ECM vinyl is usually very easy to find and cheap too!
Almost like they were never played.

My only gripe about the whole cadre of talent is Jan Garbarek.

mostly never care for his sound and if I want to hear a nice soprano sax sound I just put on Grover Washington Jr's 'A Secret Place', or Coltrane or John Surman or Evan Ziporyn. Otherwise, meh.

He's on so much ecm stuff sometimes it's hard to avoid getting needled by that man and his horn.

I bet he's great live, though.

I would have loved (and still would) to be a fly on the wall assistant at any of these many recording sessions which produced such a huge body of work.

my all time fave (this quarter)

has to be Azimuth by John Taylor, Norma Winstone and Kenny Wheeler.

Hey do you guys like trumpet player Nils Petter Molvaer? solid ether....
sweet!
Old 7th January 2006
  #5
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zarembo,

Nils Petter Molvaer, yeah.... 'Khmer' is a great album too. Actually, I got to listen to these records again. Thanks for the reminder!
Old 7th January 2006
  #6
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Thread Starter
Does anybody have stories, links or otherwise about

Jan Erik Kongshaug or Martin Weiland?

would love to know more about them and such....

On NPM's 'Solid Ether' there are the two short vocal/piano pieces called

'Merciful'...oh dear lord.

Matthew Herbert did a chunky house remix for that track a few years ago which KILLS.

There's also a complete album of NPM remixes which, like most remix albums, has some gems and some crappers--but I like the Herbert tracks the best.

'Khmer' has some pretty fantastic stuff too!

It's raining here constantly these days, perfect weather for ecm.
Old 9th January 2006
  #7
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The piano sound on the first track of Meredith Monk's Mercy Album i love. You get about two bars of sonic bliss before she starts to go loopy all over it, but i'm used to it now. I'm just getting into ECM, have been meaning to check out the production staff, who's good to start with?
I also ADORE Chic Corea's Voyage (with Steve Kujala on flute) i grew up with it in the house and those flourishes, improvisations and apregios are etched inot my brain, my eyes scatter along the path they trace.. or something.
brrraps to ECM
Old 9th January 2006
  #8
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahtao
... been meaning to check out the production staff, who's good to start with?
I also ADORE Chic Corea's Voyage (with Steve Kujala on flute) i grew up with it in the house and those flourishes, improvisations and apregios are etched inot my brain, my eyes scatter along the path they trace.. or something.
brrraps to ECM

something about the sonic character of so many of these recordings which melds perfectly into a moment, or as you say above.......

Other than Jan Erik and Martin W. I am not familiar with other ECM production folks, also that Manfred Eicher is the label head and main producer of most of the recordings (that I am familiar with anyhow).

I will check out the meredith monk piece for sure!

Talent Studio in Oslo,
Tonstudio Bauer in Ludwigsburg

seem to be where most of my collection was recorded.....maybe there's more info to be had about these facilities.....the gear...the gear....the room, and of course, the gear.
Old 9th January 2006
  #9
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PlugHead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker
An unbelievable album that is. For those that haven't heard it, it's all solo upright bass and it's amazingly musical, poetic and daring. Incredible!


Some other random ECM faves:

Pat Metheny- Bright size life + 80/81
ChickCorea/Gary Burton- Crystal silence
Keith Jarrett - Belonging
Ralph Towner/Gary Peacock- Oracle

I dig the fact that the classical ECM albums really have a 'sound'. Sometimes it may be a bit too ethereal and icy for my taste but it's something that's missing in today's 'retro jazz' climate. Like Blue Note in the late 50ies and 60ies, this identity was also represented in the cover art.

I don't like the way these albums have been transfered to CD for the most part though. I remember an interview where Pat Metheny, who left ECM a long time ago, complained about this. There hasn't been any real remastering done and that's a shame. A lot of these recordings really are sterile and thin-sounding on CD.
Another 'fan' here, tho agreed: the 'washy' sound of their mid-70's stuff (abercrombie, lester bowie, etc.) is a bit over the top for my taste, but there are many great albums on this label...

I have no insight into the particulars of the albums you've mentioned, but hopefully someone in our midst has something more to contribute than a ...

Lastly - eicher and some others at ECM have documented some great players - their passion seems to be acoustic players, and them not getting in the way of the music - hats off gents!
Old 9th January 2006
  #10
Gear addict
 

AFAIK:(there was a thread somwhere else)
Talent: Huge Room in an old factory operative in the 70's:
Helios Console, U47Fets, KM84s, U87s., some schoeps.
EMT 140's(several, with different decay times and different(external)pre-delays added in from early on) plus AMS, Lexicon Prime time and other early digital FX.
Not many room mics.
Steinway Piano.
Lasted until the early 80's

Kongshaugs studio nowadays:


http://www.rainbowstudio.no/index.php
Old 10th January 2006
  #11
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kevk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarembo
my all time fave (this quarter)

has to be Azimuth by John Taylor, Norma Winstone and Kenny Wheeler.

Hey do you guys like trumpet player Nils Petter Molvaer? solid ether....
sweet!

Agreed on Azimuth. John Taylor has to be the most under-rated pianist since... well... ever. He is also on three (I think only three) of the Peter Erskine trio ECM records; all highly recommended.

-kk
Old 11th January 2006
  #12
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Talbot
I'm a big Terje Rypdal fan...can somebody tell me the correct pronunciation of the first name????
Yes, I can. Sort of.
Old 11th January 2006
  #13
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Talbot
I'm a big Terje Rypdal fan...can somebody tell me the correct pronunciation of the first name????
Ter-yay, I think.
Old 11th January 2006
  #14
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Ruudman's Avatar
 

More like Ter-ye (with a stop)

His name means "spear of the gods"

Well suited I think.



ruudman
Old 12th January 2006
  #15
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FunkFaker's Avatar
 

My personal Favs:

Marc Johnson's - Bass Desires 1 and 2

Keith Jarrett - Standards Live


tommy
Old 12th January 2006
  #16
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zarembo's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by borau
AFAIK:(there was a thread somwhere else)

well, now you're here in THIS thread!

thanks for all the info and the link to Rainbow studio.

very cool.

I love the look of his room. I bet it sounds as nice.
----

I agree, some of the output of the ECM catalog does sound a bit homogenized here and there. However, I feel with such a prodigious output it can't all be gold, nor would I want it to be. More like sifting through stray dusty light to find the gems, of which there are many.


----
How about 'Grazing Dreams' by Colin Wolcott? whooee.
----
e.c.m
----
I love this thread because I've already been turned onto a TON of music on the label I've NEVER HEARD OF! sweet

Last edited by zarembo; 12th January 2006 at 05:56 AM.. Reason: forgot
Old 12th January 2006
  #17
anouar brahem rips **** up on that oud!
Old 12th January 2006
  #18
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Man, I love that stuff. I just picked up the new Paul Motian record, too, which sounds terrific. It was done at Avatar with James Farber. I think "Bright Size Life" is one of the coolest-sounding records ever.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
Old 12th January 2006
  #19
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I love ECM stuff too! Paul Motian CD is great. I love Bill Frisel's guitars sounds. All keith Jarret CD's are great. Also like Marc Johnson's - Bass Desires 1 and 2. Good music!!!

A lot of people here talk about rock/pop recording/mixing technics and that's good. But we shoud talk more about Jazz/acoustic/ECM ways of recording and mixing. That's what I'm into! Happy to know that you guys are into it too.

I have a trio with a cuban piano player and we would love to record it on this studio. Maybe someday... If anyone wants to here it, it's on my site.

Take Care,

Fidelis
Old 12th January 2006
  #20
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kevk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidelis
A lot of people here talk about rock/pop recording/mixing technics and that's good. But we shoud talk more about Jazz/acoustic/ECM ways of recording and mixing. That's what I'm into! Happy to know that you guys are into it too.

Fidelis
Fidelis,

Yeah, me too! I suggested to Jules that a new forum for acoustic/orchestral/jazz recording be initiated, but I guess he didn't think it was a good idea. Maybe if a few of us make some noise about it.....

Best regards,
-kk
Old 13th January 2006
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidelis
I love ECM stuff too! Paul Motian CD is great.
You know he had a root canal the morning of that session? A freaking root canal and he played like that!

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
Old 13th January 2006
  #22
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zarembo's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevk
Fidelis,

Yeah, me too! I suggested to Jules that a new forum for acoustic/orchestral/jazz recording be initiated, but I guess he didn't think it was a good idea. Maybe if a few of us make some noise about it.....

Best regards,
-kk

HEAR HEAR!
or is it here here?
he he he he her heeeeeeeeerrrrreeeeee

eeecccmm!

yep--

I think a forum on GS solely for the discussion of acoustic/ jazz/ orchestral/ ecm stylee/ crazy music recording techniques/ appreciation/ maniuplation/ what have you, would be really great....as currently it does seem quite a bit of what passes here pertains to the rock/pop/et al. styles of recording. I realize there is quite a bit of discussion here and there but let's get it happening in one place! **(unless you're hanging out over in Remote Possibilities gathering all those nuggets/jewels/jules?!)**((but that's still remote recording))

Hey Jules, what say you?
Old 13th January 2006
  #23
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
I have been feeling the need for an acoustic forum for a while.
Like you said it could contain
Orchestral/Classical
Acoustic jazz etc
I feel like the aestetchics of these techniques have a lot in common while being distinctly different from pop, rock etc.
How about a classical guest moderator as well.

Kjetil
Old 19th January 2006
  #24
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Plush's Avatar
ECM New Series

I'm definitely into the ECM "New Series" classical work.
I especially like the Arvo Part recordings done by the Heidelberg tonmeister, Teije van Geest. He did about 5 of them and each is very good.

However, Manfred Eicher, the producer, has to have his hands slapped as he reaches to adjust the faders on the recording console.

Let van Geest, a master, do that work!
Old 19th January 2006
  #25
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Greg Heimbecker's Avatar
As a young jazz fanatic becoming an engineer I grew up on Rudy and ECM. So many nights of "unwinding" after gigs (60 mile drive home from the clubs in Denver & Boulder) to Terje Rypdal or DeJohnette "New Directions Live in Europe".
My Ortofon moving coil of the day delicately unfolding Enrico Rava, Jan Garbarek, Chick Corea (Three Quartets!!!), Charlie Haden, Codona, Ralph Towner, Oregon, John Surman, Anouar Brahem, Metheny, Kenny Wheeler, John Abercrombie, Liebman & Beirach, Anthony Braxton and Art Lande.

I've had the priviledge of doing an album or 2 per year for the last few years with Art and it's still always intensely about "the music". ECM always was, it was never plod through "Autumn Leaves" again, it was connected, aware, thoughtful musical communication lovingly transcribed by the ECM engineers. Those beautiful open sounds... Martin Wieland and Jan Erik Kongshaug hitting it out of the park again and again inspite of Manfred "more silver" Eicher.

Some of the New Series stuff is gorgeous, Part in particular. Some of it is pretty sketchy though... Garbarek with the Hilliard Ensemble, his soprano buries them in the cathedral they recorded in.


Now see what you've done?!? I'm going to have to clean a bunch of vinyl and listen to a few albums...
Old 19th January 2006
  #26
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doorknocker's Avatar
Could you be a bit more specific about what's not to like about Manfred Eicher or his working methods?

Reveal the scandals! The truth about a soft-spoken 'new age' guy!
Old 19th January 2006
  #27
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Plush's Avatar
Producer's "working" methods

Awfully sorry, I couldn't possibly comment.
Old 19th January 2006
  #28
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Greg Heimbecker's Avatar
I am eternally grateful to Mr Eicher for the body of work he has brought to us all. I've been fortunate to work with a number of his artists and have been privy to impressions and/or stories of his "eccentricities"...

Having not been there myself I wouldn't take it any further.
Old 20th January 2006
  #29
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Heimbecker
I am eternally grateful to Mr Eicher for the body of work he has brought to us all. I've been fortunate to work with a number of his artists and have been privy to impressions and/or stories of his "eccentricities"...

Having not been there myself I wouldn't take it any further.
Well, we all re-tell and speculate upon the character and methods of famous producers/sessions , be it RVG, the Beatles, Phil Spector or so many others. I guess precious few of us were actually there in the room with these guys!

I'm not interested in any 'scandals'- I joked before- but rather in the ' the methods' of Mr. Eicher. Given the often-great results, he must be doing something right.

I'd also say that ECM's 'street credibility' could only gain with a few 'real-life' episodes!

So come on then...
Old 23rd January 2006
  #30
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Thread Starter
hey I haven't checked this thread in a while but, while having a moment here and there to enjoy a little music, ECM is still hot on my ears and soul!

Anhour Brahem is amazing--the record with Dave Holland and John Surman!

oh boy.

that's good news for sure which is why I put this here.

this music is vital.

the techniques for capturing it are also.

I am surprised how much reverb is used on a lot of the productions.

makes me wish I had an EMT 140 or a big ass room.

sigh.

look forward to cracking into the 'new series' recordings soon and particularly Arvo Part.

but right now on the platter is another GEM!

Julian Priester and Marine Intrusion

'POLARIZATION'

yep yep

'77 recorded by Martin Wieland

yep
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