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To UPS, or not to UPS. That is the question.
Old 23rd June 2003
  #1
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Remoteness's Avatar
Talking To UPS, or not to UPS. That is the question.

We all know what happens to your heart and your pocket when you lost power and you didn't have a backup. Ouch, I can feel the pain as I type this thought...

Want UPS? Is the "Uninterruptible Power Supply" an answer? True Sine wave UPS' or the "on" when you need them version OK.

And what about the noise the standard UPS induces while engaged, doing it's job? Is the potential added noise on your audio a fair compromise when you would have lost it completely? It's a quick solution.

We can always get a genie and a serious transfer bypass switch which automatically switches to the genie when shore power is lost. Unless you have a vehicle to install it in, that's a lot to lug around.

How do you deal with mission critical situations when you CANNOT loss the signal?

To UPS, or not to UPS, that is the question.

I went UPS on all mission critical racks. You can always use a better method when available.

As Fletchness may say, "YMMV."
Old 23rd June 2003
  #2
Gear Nut
 

I'm a Pro, I don't do a single gig without a UPS.
Old 23rd June 2003
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Re: To UPS, or not to UPS. That is the question.

Steve R,

I use a APC Smart UPS 700R to power my 2 x MX2424's + a few pieces of A>D. It works well. No (discernable) noise is introduced to my system, and my ass has been saved more than twice. Smaller units do not output "true" sine waves, so any pieces of gear with non-switching power supplies will translate this as noise, etc and may even run warm, act unstable.

I also use a (smaller) Smart UPS/Back UPS when I'm connected to a very reliable source of power (ie, genny). If the genny goes down, I have no audio to capture, but I have enough run time to save what I have gracefully.
Old 23rd June 2003
  #4
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 

Some great points! I run a UPS on computer related stuff in the studio, I would not think of doing a remote gig without one. The only exception is when the entire gig is on a genny ( as NYC Drew mentioned already) and I am using a tape based system.. I still want one, but not as essential.
Old 25th June 2003
  #5
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Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by HEDDcase
I'm a Pro, I don't do a single gig without a UPS.
Excellent! That's what I'm talking about....

Does the Pro use a true sine wave UPS or a regular one?

I use both. I have three 30 Amp true sine wave UPS', with individual units for back up to the back up.

Each mission critical rack has a UPS with over sized battery needs. The three large units handle the entire system with an extra backup. The smaller UPS' are backups to the backup UPS.
Old 25th June 2003
  #6
Gear Nut
 

What true sign wave UPS are you using ?
Old 25th June 2003
  #7
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Remoteness's Avatar
Come by my shop, I'll show you them...
Old 26th June 2003
  #8
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Remoteness
Come by my shop, I'll show you them...
OK, the next time I'm on your coast I'll take you up on the offer.

In the mean time could you share a bit more info ?
Old 26th June 2003
  #9
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Remoteness's Avatar
I seem to remember asking you a simple question and you didn't answer.

"Do you use a "true" sine wave UPS or not?"

My "true" (pure) sine wave UPS' are MGEs. The others are Tripplite.
Old 1st July 2003
  #10
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Remoteness
I seem to remember asking you a simple question and you didn't answer.

"Do you use a "true" sine wave UPS or not?"
Most of mine are not, but I have 2 that were custom built for audio and they are.

My understanding is that most audio gear wants a true sine wave, but will run OK on a square wave. Your tripplites and the other brands intended for computers put out square waves.
Old 1st July 2003
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally posted by HEDDcase
... Your tripplites and the other brands intended for computers put out square waves.
Generally speaking, yes. But there is a fair amount of computer gear that does not use "Switching" power supply units. As stated earlier, APC's Smart UPS series (700 & higher) puts out a *pure* sine wave.
Old 1st July 2003
  #12
Gear Nut
 

Well if that's the case then I may have all sine wave UPSs.

Do you know if the Backups-Pro puts out a sine or square wave ?
Old 1st July 2003
  #13
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by HEDDcase
Most of mine are not, but I have 2 that were custom built for audio and they are.

My understanding is that most audio gear wants a true sine wave, but will run OK on a square wave. Your tripplites and the other brands intended for computers put out square waves.
That's correct. Our Tripplites are standard issue and are the backup to the true Sine Wave UPS backup system. I figured I'd rather have the possibility of a little noise in the audio then to have no audio if the power goes and the backup UPS goes too.

HEDDcase, I didn't have the budget to get true Sine Wave UPS for the backup to the backup. As you may already know, they cost much more for half the VA and/or Watts. Hey, maybe one day we'll update the standard ones to the clean ones.

Yeah, Tripplite doesn't manufactured true Sine Wave UPS'. I guess I've been mistaken. HELLO, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee my man! heh heh heh
Old 1st July 2003
  #14
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Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by HEDDcase
Well if that's the case then I may have all sine wave UPSs.

Do you know if the Backups-Pro puts out a sine or square wave ?
What's the exact model number? The information is easy to find.
Old 1st July 2003
  #15
Gear Nut
 

APC Backups Pro 1000

Yeah I just looked it up and it outputs a "Stepped approximation to a sinewave."

Apparently it's not a true sinewave, but close.
Old 1st July 2003
  #16
Gear Nut
 

OK Remoteness, you're saying you've got UPSs to backup your good UPSs ?

That's cool!

You ARE the Man.
Old 1st July 2003
  #17
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Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by HEDDcase
...You ARE the Man.
Thanks HEDDcase, but don't tell anyone. heh
Old 2nd July 2003
  #18
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De chromium cob's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by HEDDcase
OK Remoteness, you're saying you've got UPSs to backup your good UPSs ?

That's cool!

You ARE the Man.
What?! No backup to backup the backup? Dont you think you're kind of tempting fate?
Old 2nd July 2003
  #19
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Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by De chromium cob
What?! No backup to backup the backup? Dont you think you're kind of tempting fate?
Well, if I take what you said verbatim...

I DO have a backup to backup my backup. I believe you're trying to say, "what, no backup to the backups, backup?"

Oh, and the answer to your question is...

Doing remote recording as a primary business, is temping fate in general, so I got it covered just fine, thank you.
Old 2nd July 2003
  #20
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De chromium cob's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Remoteness
Well, if I take what you said verbatim...

I DO have a backup to backup my backup. I believe you're trying to say, "what, no backup to the backups, backup?"

Oh, and the answer to your question is...

Doing remote recording as a primary business, is temping fate in general, so I got it covered just fine, thank you.
Right you are! I meant to say "backup to backup the backups backup', but I guess my brain went to sleep a bit earlier than my body last night....
Old 2nd July 2003
  #21
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by De chromium cob
Right you are! I meant to say "backup to backup the backups backup', but I guess my brain went to sleep a bit earlier than my body last night....
Yes, we all have been there...

That line is an engineers tongue twister.
Old 9th July 2003
  #22
Gear Nut
 

So the cool thing about this thread (for me anyway) was when I learned that the Smart UPS from APC puts out a true signwave.

I came across this deal today and I've bought from these folks before so I feel comfortable recomending them.

Smart UPS 700VA for $249.49 with free shipping, a very good deal, IMO.

Scroll down the page a bit, you'll find it.

Thanks remoteness for starting the thread!
Old 9th July 2003
  #23
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
HEDDcase,

I'm glad the thread helped you out.

That price sounds awesome.

It seems like the prices went up on that unit. It now sells for $361.90.

These prices go up and down daily. I waited for a fair amount of time before I purchased my units at a good price.

Good luck with your new UPSs.
Old 9th July 2003
  #24
Gear Nut
 

The white one is $249.49 and the black one is $361.90. Other than color they're identical, go figure.
Old 9th July 2003
  #25
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Remoteness's Avatar
Wow, I passed right by the white one!
Old 18th July 2003
  #26
Here for the gear
 

Accorinding to Tripplite sight, they do have true sine wave outputs on their smartonline series. Is there something I'm missing here?
Old 18th July 2003
  #27
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Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Ble Cyberia
Accorinding to Tripplite sight, they do have true sine wave outputs on their smartonline series. Is there something I'm missing here?
Tripplite makes both types. I happen to buy the non sine wave version for my back up to my back up.

Tripplite, APC and others make both versions.

It was strickly economics that made me buy non SmartOnline units.

I hope this clears up any missing pieces.
Old 1st February 2010
  #28
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huub's Avatar
Our chief vision engineer isn't very pro-UPS... His take is: our power supplies are very reliable (often twinpack generators) and UPS's are just an extra risk factor, since the chance that a UPS battery is unreliable is bigger than the chance of a generator failing.. (Mind you, I do audio usually in a video truck, if the power dies there is no video, thus if there's no audio also, it's no big deal..)
The only times I've had power dying was in strange and far away countries and Italy..

What do you guys think?
Old 1st February 2010
  #29
Gear Addict
 

What are you guys putting un your UPS?

Computer only, computer-audio interface or computer-audio interface-converters-masterclock?

Thanks

777artin
Old 1st February 2010
  #30
Gear Addict
 
Rev2010's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
Our chief vision engineer isn't very pro-UPS... His take is: our power supplies are very reliable (often twinpack generators) and UPS's are just an extra risk factor, since the chance that a UPS battery is unreliable is bigger than the chance of a generator failing.
That is an absolute load of horsesh*t. UPS's are very reliable. Maybe if we're talking the cheapest crap brand there could be a concern but not with good brands. I'm an IT Technician and have been working at 2 law firms for the past 10 years and both companies had the switches and servers hooked up to pro APC backups. I'm now using an APC UPS at home cause I cheaped out originally and went with a Belkin - big mistake... the damn thing didn't keep my stuff on when my house suffered power loss on two occasions. Luckily I wasn't in the middle of writing music then. However I also have Cubase set to backup the song in progress every 10 minutes.

Since I've got the APC UPS I've tested it a few times by pulling the plug while my stuff was on and it stayed 100% perfect, nothing dropped out at all. Couldn't say the same for the Belkin garbage.

So if you have a good brand it's always better to have than not.

@777Artin - Only the most important stuff to allow you to save your work since most UPS' only have a few outlets that are powered on the battery. I have a dual monitor setup but I only have the DAW, the main monitor, and my mixer on the UPS. The mixer isn't necessary but I have it on there for a reason that is too long to explain here.

*EDIT - BTW, just noticed this is posted under the remote/location recording section and I hadn't noticed - just saw the thread title under the forum listing and clicked. So my response is in reference to studio based recording. Not sure about UPS' importance in remote location recording. My bad.


Rev.
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