The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Tags: , ,

Live recording at major festival Audio Interfaces
Old 3rd April 2010
  #91
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
2x Glyph 500GB
1x HD24 - £999
1x Profire2626 - (8 Pres) - £359
2 x Octopre with ADAT (16 pres giving me a total of 24) - £700
3 x ART S8-3WAY mic splitter - £660

Total - £2718
Ali, for some reason I'm getting this vision of a Mini-Cooper outfitted with a heavy duty trailer-hitch. And mismatched tires. Yeah, the rig might haul some cargo on a flat surface, but would you re-hire the person that showed up with such a rig? Even if the cargo got hauled that day?

You seem determined to offer a 'loss-leader,' so who is this idealized future repeat customer you are wanting to impress? Once you've answered that, then it should be easier to spec the right rig.

If it's the paying client you are hoping to entice back year after year, what makes you think you will get more money for the next festival? What happens if one of the bands doesn't care for the mix? Who does the client blame, if not you?

If it's future, anonymous, clients sure to be impressed with your mad engineering skillz as demonstrated on a 16 song compilation of 16 different bands, what happens if even one of those bands puts on a terrible show? (Hard to believe, I know, but it does happen.) Are you allowed to credit that particular track to Alan Smithee? As far as that goes, do one-song-per-band compilations of festival side-stages sell particularly well in your market?

If you hope to impress a particular band-on-the-rise in hopes of becoming their go-to guy in the future, what happens when you run out of tracks and have to make a choice between the bottom snare mic' and the background vocalist that can't maintain pitch on the one song that he's allowed to sing on? Or what happens when the bassist's dad gets a feed of the board mix, and is convinced - even before listening - that it must sound better than you can ever provide because the console uses Midas preamps and he can see that you are using M-Audio?

And if it's the sound provider you hope to impress (the most important, I'd think), what happens when you try to explain which of the 24 tracks your ART splitters (costing in the three-figure range) are sending to his 32 channel Midas Verona (costing in the five-figure range)? Or what happens when the drummer for the next-to-last band of the evening gets blind-drunk and blames your back-stage clutter for delaying the start of the set so much that the headline act is pushed past curfew?

Finally, a question for those of you telling Ali.harman to provide full redundancy, splitters, external preamps, a multi-person crew, etc: would you take the job for the same money? And if you did take the job for the same money, would you handle it in the same way you are suggesting he does?

best,

john
Old 3rd April 2010
  #92
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabney
Finally, a question for those of you telling Ali.harman to provide full redundancy, splitters, external preamps, a multi-person crew, etc: would you take the job for the same money? And if you did take the job for the same money, would you handle it in the same way you are suggesting he does?
We do not know how much money he is getting. This is the only reference to rate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali.harman
What they're paying isn't coming close to the £3000 budget I have for buying the gear. However it is a really good opportunity to expand what I do, and i'd do it for free.
So, from anywhere to 0-3000 GBP. I always think that "any job worth doing is a job worth doing right." So yeah, I'd take splitters, external preamps, a redundant recorder, and hopefully another guy to a multi band recording at "one of the UK's biggest music festivals."
Old 3rd April 2010
  #93
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabney View Post
Ali, for some reason I'm getting this vision of a Mini-Cooper outfitted with a heavy duty trailer-hitch. And mismatched tires. Yeah, the rig might haul some cargo on a flat surface, but would you re-hire the person that showed up with such a rig? Even if the cargo got hauled that day?
I have to say, jabney's post here (of which on the the opening paragraph is quoted), is probably the most to the point way of saying what everybody is that seems to be against Ali doing the job is thinking.

Well done.

I'll finish my remarks by saying that if somebody showed up to record a festival that I was the sound designer/PA provider for and had an ART splitter, I probably would not let them patch in. When using gear of that quality on live dates, it simply doesn't last well enough. If it is a choice of the recordist or me, I choose me. Plain and simple.

This is why I suggested in my initial posts that if you are going to do a job like this, talk to the PA provider and get things like your splits provided by them. 3-way splits are pretty common and if you're on one of the isolated sides, it protects you from doing something that will mess up the rest of the gig.

Don't be sucked into buying less than quality gear for a high-profile gig just to get the gig. I know this is gearslutz, but there is a lot involved in maintaining and keeping gear completely trouble free in the field. It is *not* the studio and while some of the concepts may seem similar on paper, it is a very different beast.

Remember that everything you are bringing to the table is a reflection on you. This includes the gear as well as the attitude and work ethic you bring. If any part of that is lacking, your whole image is lacking. I don't know if the PA provider is staking their reputation on their work, but you also need to keep that in mind as well. If they are responsible for you being there, you better make sure that you reflect well on them, too.

Just a few more thoughts...

-Ben
Old 4th April 2010
  #94
Lives for gear
 

Scrub the S8 casing back to metal and paint it flat black and tell people its custom built by some boutique genius out of germany.. Frederick Von Fraunhofer grandson of Joseph the countries most legendary scientist... Next thing you know they will be telling you how they can "hear its warmth and clarity"
Old 4th April 2010
  #95
LX3
Lives for gear
 
LX3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebulb View Post
Scrub the S8 casing back to metal and paint it flat black and tell people its custom built by some boutique genius out of germany.. Frederick Von Fraunhofer grandson of Joseph the countries most legendary scientist... Next thing you know they will be telling you how they can "hear its warmth and clarity"
Ha ha, that's so true.

Did a gig a few weeks ago, renting (at the producer's request, and at great expense and trouble) 24 channels of Neve 33609 and 1073 preamps. "You'll love them, they have unbelievable headroom".

A DI'd bass signal clipped the preamp well before it sent the A-D full-scale, which took a while to figure out because we still had that "unbelievable headroom" garbage in our heads.

Did sound nice in the end though. Better than 24 channels of Audient? Who can say. Maybe it sounded nice because of all those great big knobs and switches.

But I go off-topic. Ali, can you tell us what are the recordings to be used for? That's a critical question to answer if the pooled minds of GS are to be much help. If you don't have to guarantee that you get the recording you can pretty much do it how you like, and if something goes wrong at least you'll have learned a lot without anyone dying.

Lastly, in my experience the chances of selling a recording to an artist who hasn't already explicitly asked for their set to be recorded are close to zero. Don't bank on making extra cash like this. I wouldn't even waste your time approaching the artists/management about it. If they come to you, that's a different matter.
Old 4th April 2010
  #96
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebulb View Post
Scrub the S8 casing back to metal and paint it flat black and tell people its custom built by some boutique genius out of germany.. Frederick Von Fraunhofer grandson of Joseph the countries most legendary scientist... Next thing you know they will be telling you how they can "hear its warmth and clarity"
LOL.....i use these splitters, served well for me for what i do.....but if i had a BIG gig, i'd step up to the plate and do an upgrade.
Old 4th April 2010
  #97
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabney View Post

And if it's the sound provider you hope to impress (the most important, I'd think), what happens when you try to explain which of the 24 tracks your ART splitters (costing in the three-figure range) are sending to his 32 channel Midas Verona (costing in the five-figure range)?
Will be using a three way splitter provided by FOH for the festival. The ART splitters will be used at smaller venues before and after the festival.
Old 5th April 2010
  #98
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
Ali.harman,

IMO, you have received some pretty decent responses and a few awesome ones to boot.
I trust you're enjoying our forum; did you get a chance to read some of the other threads?
Have you clicked on any of the popular tag links yet? they can be very helpful.
Need a link for "Kazoo mic"
Old 5th April 2010
  #99
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixedupsteve View Post
Need a link for "Kazoo mic"
Steve,

Now you're talking, but (as of yet) there are no serious discussions about mic'ing a Kazoo.

That being said, I have commented on how some horns and/or mic techniques can cause that Kazoo sound in a few threads.

Others have also brought up that instrument, but nothing serious.
Let us start a movement to bring the Kazoo to the level of importance it actually needs.
I mean, we only reference it when we'[re making a joke about a particular sound and stuff.

Perhaps we should start a few threads to warrant the need for that special tag link. heh

How about a summer concert with a "gig report" discussion to boot?
We could call it "Kazoopalooza" 2010; bring your Kazoo and join in the fun!
Old 5th April 2010
  #100
LX3
Lives for gear
 
LX3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali.harman View Post
Will be using a three way splitter provided by FOH for the festival. The ART splitters will be used at smaller venues before and after the festival.
What splitter are the PA crew providing? It's worth finding out for sure.

I only mention it because a lot of UK PA companies call their FOH/monitor stagebox system a "split" (and many of them do split three ways). If pushed, they'll say it's a "passive split".

When what they mean is it's a straight-wire "Y" split... which isn't the safest thing to record from.

I haven't run into any UK-based PA companies that use proper active or transformer splitters as a matter of course. Although they could be hiring something in. If so, you should probably get them a crate of beer, because that rental would be around £400 (and they wouldn't need to hire it if you weren't there).
Old 6th April 2010
  #101
Quote:
Need a link for "Kazoo mic"
The only time I recorded a kazoo, I used a Schoeps CMC64 through a Hardy mic amp (or maybe it was a Millennia).

I have to say it was the best kazoo sound I ever got.

It sounded like a kazoo
Old 6th April 2010
  #102
LX3
Lives for gear
 
LX3's Avatar
 

I sometimes feel like I might just as well be playing a kazoo.

Personally, I'm more into vintage large diaphragm on kazoo. Or perhaps an SM7 or M88. Helps round off those kazoo-like edges.
Old 6th April 2010
  #103
Lives for gear
 

BEHOLD! Kazooka Genuine Electric Kazoo
Attached Thumbnails
Live recording at major festival-kazooka.jpg  
Old 7th April 2010
  #104
Quote:
Personally, I'm more into vintage large diaphragm on kazoo. Or perhaps an SM7 or M88. Helps round off those kazoo-like edges.
But that's the sound I was going for - that buzzy, edgy nastiness.

Otherwise, it may as well be an oboe heh

A ribbon might give you more of that rounded quality - maybe an M160 or something.
Old 8th April 2010
  #105
LX3
Lives for gear
 
LX3's Avatar
 

Good suggestions. I feel a kazoo-mic shootout might be in order.

The people need to know... after all, Ali might get a kazoo player to deal with at that festival.
Old 8th April 2010
  #106
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
If you're serious about recording a real Kazoo, R121 is the only way to go.
YMMV
Old 8th April 2010
  #107
Lives for gear
 
Enginearing's Avatar
 

I had some Brass end up sounding like kazoos on a remote a few weeks back, after my beta57As were shunned for some samson clip-on radios without notice... at least they looked cool i guess.

other kazooists in the past have just used the vocal mic.
(thinking this kazoo thing now has legs long enough to have its own thread)

back to the subject I think some awesome advice has been given here highlighting what a fantastic resource Steve has created.

My first thoughts for the OP was to farm the gig out, though i think the approach is right and with time on your side and some stage experience before the gig you shouldn't be too unprepared.

(while possibly not an option for this gig, if the PA vendor were to supply a Digidesign console redundancy could be covered by an assistant and a tools rig at FOH... since all the band's info is on hand, scenes containing softpatching/bussing could be set up well before the show)
Old 8th April 2010
  #108
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 

I was thinking a beer-spattered Shure Green Bullet would be just about perfect, as kazoo and harmonica have a similar frequency range (the harp would have a bit more high end) and a "cool" factor vibe to match the 'zoo.

Of course, Country Joe McDonald's kazooist likely buzzed into a U87 way back before disco... and my last recording of the beast was in 1976, through a Sony C55 FET so... whatever works, works.
Old 9th June 2010
  #109
Gear Head
 

Quite a few people got involved in this thread so I thought i'd give an update as to where I am for those of you that are interested.

Bought my rig:

M-Audio Profire 2626
Focusrite Octopre x 2
Alesis HD24
Art S8 Mic Splitters x 3

Followed some of the advice provided on the board with regards to setup:

Signal into preamps, out via firewire to MB pro/Logic
Line outputs from preamps to line inputs on the HD24

This is the way i'm planning to go, still testing out all ins/out on each unit and awaiting delivery of cables/looms etc. Got three shows lined up so far to take it out and give it a trial run.

Also, been out on tour doing FOH for the first time. Jumped headfirst in with great results so far (in that I didn't blow anything up or destroy anyone's eardrums), but most importantly I am having a blast and learning a lot.

Many thanks to everyone on the board for your help, I came on here knowing nada, and your help gave me the minerals to get the ball rolling. Very much appreciated.
Old 9th June 2010
  #110
Lives for gear
 
Teddy Ray's Avatar
 

sorry to be a bit off topic, but id love to see the thread from the guy who had disastrous results.
Old 9th June 2010
  #111
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy Ray View Post
sorry to be a bit off topic, but id love to see the thread from the guy who had disastrous results.
I agree. Where is it located? Is it still on the forum?
Old 16th June 2010
  #112
Here for the gear
 

Sounds great!...keep us posted, prove the na sayers wrong...hoping for success leading up to your big gig, in which i'm sure you will do fine.
Old 22nd June 2010
  #113
LX3
Lives for gear
 
LX3's Avatar
 

Ali, are you by any chance recording at the major UK festival that starts with a "G", this coming weekend?

If so, I could pop over to say hello... if your stage doesn't turn out to be a two-mile trek from where I'm working.
Old 22nd June 2010
  #114
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX3 View Post
Ali, are you by any chance recording at the major UK festival that starts with a "G", this coming weekend?

If so, I could pop over to say hello... if your stage doesn't turn out to be a two-mile trek from where I'm working.
Earlier in the post he mentioned it being in mid August...so I doubt if it's the one with 45 stages.
Old 23rd June 2010
  #115
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX3 View Post
Ali, are you by any chance recording at the major UK festival that starts with a "G", this coming weekend?

If so, I could pop over to say hello... if your stage doesn't turn out to be a two-mile trek from where I'm working.
Fraid not, as above, it's in August. Would have been nice though!
Old 23rd June 2010
  #116
Gear Head
 

I seem to have ironed our most of the issues that have cropped up prior to this recording. However one annoying thing remains unresolved:

I'm gonna be about 10 meters from the splitter, all my looms are 6m and the smallest stagebox I can hire is 30m. This is a major pain in the ar*e as i'm sure to get signal loss. Can't really imagine there's a way round this short of getting a stage box custom built, however with my way over budget, budget maxed out............
Old 23rd June 2010
  #117
LX3
Lives for gear
 
LX3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali.harman View Post
I seem to have ironed our most of the issues that have cropped up prior to this recording. However one annoying thing remains unresolved:

I'm gonna be about 10 meters from the splitter, all my looms are 6m and the smallest stagebox I can hire is 30m. This is a major pain in the ar*e as i'm sure to get signal loss.
No you're not. That's mostly an old wives tale. 10m or 30m isn't going to make any appreciable difference.

But yeah, long-term, you need to build or buy a variety of snakes for recording gigs. Not cheap, but the real major pain in the a** is having to keep renting those kind of things.

Didn't I say, get ready for the long-haul investment... It's not the fancy-looking kit that costs the money.
Old 24th June 2010
  #118
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX3 View Post
Didn't I say, get ready for the long-haul investment... It's not the fancy-looking kit that costs the money.
True. It sucks when a decent portion of your budget goes on cables that lie on the floor with no lights, nor buttons or flashy bits.
Old 24th June 2010
  #119
LX3
Lives for gear
 
LX3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali.harman View Post
True. It sucks when a decent portion of your budget goes on cables that lie on the floor with no lights, nor buttons or flashy bits.
Call me weird, but it's those bits that interest me most these days... The infrastructure stuff like multipin and fibreoptic connectors, splitters, flightcases, rack wiring, talkback and comms, etc.

Anyone can browse websites and look up specs for high-profile gear like mics and preamps and recorders (and there are endless, valuable user opinions about the merits of that kit on forums) but the hard bit is figuring out the stuff you don't see, the kit that you can't just buy off the shelf and take out of the box and use. And because it's such a challenge to find out about, and so expensive, and has such poor resale value, you need to have it fairly comprehensively figured out before spending a lot of cash (and a vast amount of soldering time) on it.

But that's me, that stuff probably fascinates me *because* it's shrouded in a certain amount of mystery.

Not that I don't like gear that lights up as well. heh
Old 24th June 2010
  #120
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX3 View Post
Call me weird, but it's those bits that interest me most these days... The infrastructure stuff like multipin and fibreoptic connectors, splitters, flightcases, rack wiring, talkback and comms, etc.
I like the cabling most, as well. The variety of ways to hook things up is just mind blowing. Theres optical, digital, analog that goes through standard cable, quad cable, multi-cores. Then there are all of the connectors!

Not to mention that running cable is probably the most time and labor intensive part of any job.


Getting back on track; cables can add up in cost, so I use the cheapest stuff I am comfortable with (anything from Audiopile, pretty much).
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Kris / Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show and Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs
0
Soyuz / The Good News Channel
1
Soyuz / So much gear, so little time
1
cppi / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
13

Forum Jump
Forum Jump