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Live recording at major festival Audio Interfaces
Old 31st March 2010
  #61
Lives for gear
The only time I had a real issue was when we tried to sync it to an Alesis HD24.

Major problem right in the middle of things, although I repatched a bunch of stuff and dodged the bullet. the fault was with the HD24.

If you run a UPS, you should be ok. There is a trick to put the machine into tape mode and preallocate the disk time (which coincidentally is how the alesis works), which will at least protect the file even in a power outage.

Lets face it...using any hard disk recorders on remotes is gonna lose you some hair. I stress about it every gig. But to date thats the only thing I have lost.

If you want more info on the MX PM me to keep this on topic.

To this end I will add, I often record off of the FOH or Monitor desk. A use a small line mixer to check whats going in, but to the best of my knowledge there is no DAW or stand alone multitrack that offers true confidence monitoring. Fo all we know the drive could be shredding the whole thing and we wouldn't know until we could do a playback.

So like it or not there is a certain element of risk in all this stuff at this point. I don't like it, you don't like it. But the technology dictates it.

I think you all would be surprised to find out how many live releases are put out today tagging the console with essentially NO monitoring.

Now granted...many of these are being made internally by the bands organization...meaning if something goes wrong they live with it, and they probably record every show to multi. But it is done a lot, and there is no reason why it can't work.

I really can't see any reason why the OP can't do this gig. Its not the freaking Olympics for broadcast TV yanno.
Old 31st March 2010
  #62
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffmo View Post
The JoeCo boxes, if they work as advertised are a great idea.
This was my first port of call when I was under the illusion that I could use the insert points. The last 8 inputs actual have thru points so FOH can patch in outboard, but as far as i'm aware it has to be channels 17-24, which will annoy the hell out of most FOH engineers. It seems to be designed for the FOH to take on tour and do the recording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffmo View Post
I have to wonder if they are pating evough to warrant you showing up with a splitter, a console, a redundant recording
What they're paying isn't coming close to the £3000 budget I have for buying the gear. However it is a really good opportunity to expand what I do, and i'd do it for free.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffmo View Post
You might investigate if the console DI has a jumper to make it pre EQ
You can rewire the jumpers, but methinks it's a big ask. Out of curiosity, if you were FOH, would you prefer I asked for a three way splitter, or for the jumpers to be rewired?
Old 31st March 2010
  #63
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Remoteness's Avatar
Lightbulb What about the Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording Forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom H View Post
You can probably hire a splitter for the gig. look for socapex splitter systems.

Check the remote forum here for loads of info on doing live recordings.

Even if it's a small stage these gigs can be pretty stressy if you have no experience.

edit: it's probably wise to contact the festival and see how everything is going to be setup before you start buying and renting stuff, too many variables
Yes, indeed... The "Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording" Forum is the place to be.

Also, consider clicking on the various popular tags I have created for you.
It's a simple way to see all the applicable threads in one neat list.
Old 31st March 2010
  #64
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Now that this thread is in the remote section (where it belongs), you would do very well to click on the tags- specifically the ones about splitters, workflow, audience mics, etc... It is obvious that you have a lot to learn about working in the Live World and your questions are showing that you aren't really listening to the warnings being issued by the other members.

I agree that the tone may be a bit direct/gruff, but it comes from a level of experience that just about all of us have gotten at one point or another the hard way.

If you have 1000 people listening to the show, that is a lot of folks to get pissed if something doesn't go well.

Since you are on good terms with the PA company, I would highly suggest a couple things:

1. Have them bring a good quality 3-way split. You'll get an isolated split- the direct (and therefore where phantom comes from) will almost certainly come from FOH.

2. Bring a console or preamps for everything you are recording. If 24 channels will cover it, great. However, I find that is often not enough- 32 would probably be the minimum size rig I'd use.

3. Bring lots of adapters. You'll need them for things like the return lines that you'll have to use to get your audience mics back to you. The PA guys likely won't want your mics in their system unless the monitor guy needs them for in-ear monitors.

4. Backup, backup... The least professional thing you can do is run without a backup. it would be best in a situation like this (since you aren't used to mixing live) to have a full multitrack backup. As a minimum, you need to run a 2 track that can be good enough to work as a final product if your multitrack crapps out.

This can be a good learning experience if you haven't done it before, but be aware that in the live world, there is no room for error. If you have any questions or concerns, hire a flypack or another remotester to help you out. The butt that is saved will be your own.

--Ben
Old 31st March 2010
  #65
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fifthcircle View Post
Now that this thread is in the remote section (where it belongs)
Apologies for that. I have even less experience using web forums than I do in live recording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fifthcircle View Post
your questions are showing that you aren't really listening to the warnings being issued by the other members
Can I ask what questions in particular you are referring to? As far as I am aware, I am taking as much as possible on board.
Old 1st April 2010
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali.harman View Post
What they're paying isn't coming close to the £3000 budget I have for buying the gear. However it is a really good opportunity to expand what I do, and i'd do it for free.

I misread the original post.. I thought you were getting paid 3k to record and mix it, in which case i thought you would hire most of the stuff you didnt already have..

If you are buying gear consider this option for setting up a rig with redundancy..

Get a hard drive recorder as recorder 1.. (Alesis HD24, Tascam MX24/48, proco or fostex make one also).. Get something like a focusrite saffire 56 (or m audio profire 2626) and run it with a laptop as recorder 2..

This allows you to run straight into the pre amps on the saffire and output via firewire into the DAW and also output via analog into the external recorder.. So you are only needing one set of pre amps and one feed from ISO splitters.. In order to get 24 lines up you would need 2 more 8 way pre amps with adat optical which then run analog into the external recorder and optical into the saffire, same principle..

The point i make is its a good alternative because these newer breed of interfaces with pre amps and firewire and optical ins/outs can act as a hub for a setup like this.. Its obviously not as solid as two seperate feeds from a splitter all with their own pre amps etc.. But its an effective way of setting up redundancy without totally doubling everything, which you may not be able to afford..
Old 1st April 2010
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali.harman View Post
This was my first port of call when I was under the illusion that I could use the insert points. The last 8 inputs actual have thru points so FOH can patch in outboard, but as far as i'm aware it has to be channels 17-24, which will annoy the hell out of most FOH engineers. It seems to be designed for the FOH to take on tour and do the recording.



What they're paying isn't coming close to the £3000 budget I have for buying the gear. However it is a really good opportunity to expand what I do, and i'd do it for free.




You can rewire the jumpers, but methinks it's a big ask. Out of curiosity, if you were FOH, would you prefer I asked for a three way splitter, or for the jumpers to be rewired?

Well...If it was MY console i would want the direct outs to be pre EQ pre fader, so maybe they would agree. to that.

A three way split is no biggie for them, you just have to bring more stuff.
Old 1st April 2010
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffmo View Post
Well...If it was MY console i would want the direct outs to be pre EQ pre fader, so maybe they would agree. to that.
Direct outs and one or two HD24s would be my choice at your budget. If you can get your FOH friends to modify (or let you modify) the Midas Verona to pre-EQ by simply moving a jumper, so much the better. (Why in the world do direct outs default to anything other than pre-everything, anyhow?) But even with EQ, unless the FOH person is really ham-handed and half deaf, you'll probably get a perfectly usable signal for all or at least the vast majority of the channels. And if a few channels have to be mangled for the sake of the show, passive mic' splitters and a small mixer or three or four channels of an eight channel pre/AD box should be able to handle those (you'll want to record the crowd and ideally the board mix as well, so that's four channels - five if it's aux-fed-subs).

Please don't act like a trust-fund baby and subsidize the customer out of your own pocket. Some of the advice you are getting here comes from people with major label experience - and major label budgets. 2,600 of any currency should not even be an indie label budget for three or four bands - much less 16 bands. With an HD24 and a couple of hard drives, you can record all 16 sets and choose the most useful song from each set. And then erase the drives and use them again. And maybe still have enough left over to buy one watery soda and a corn-dog (or a lukewarm beer and a small shepherds pie I suppose, since it is the UK :-) at festival prices.

The thing is, the budget vs, the scope of the task has already told you that your services are an afterthought. So try to minimize your footprint as much as you possibly can. The live show is by far the most important thing.

A good thing about using direct outs is that you can serve as a second set of eyes for watching the input trim level (only). When your rig is getting a healthy clean signal then so is everything downstream in the mixer. And what FOH does with that afterward is out of your hands (unless you are babysitting the board during a restroom break or a smoke break).

best,

john
Old 1st April 2010
  #69
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the HD24 can handle fairly high levels also which is something that initially impressed me with it.. So it doesnt go too bad with direct outs, but that option is much better when you are recording one band and they get a soundcheck.. That way FOH is sorted before they are on stage and your recording isnt likely to change so much..

At a festival using direct outs you can basically kiss goodbye to the first 2 songs for each band.. The levels are likely to be all over the place and EQs changing a lot, and theres nothing you can do because thats the realm of FOH.. Even when doing one band with a soundcheck this can still be problematic but at a festival it would be much worse..

A lot of desks have direct out post EQ because its designed to be used in a studio without sub groups feeding the recorder.. That way you can EQ each line before recording.. But in a live sense for recording its a pain.

Even with your budget I would still look at a split setup.. If you have 3,000 pounds to spend you can easily get something happening in that budget, heres what id do.

1200 for HD24 + extra caddies and hard drives
650 for saffire56 or profire 2626
800 for 16x pres with ADAT and analog out

If you have a laptop to run the Saffire you are well on your way.. That would give you 24 channels with backup for under 3k. Then id hire splitters and multicore etc..

Also id try and get a deal going with the event organisers where you can offer each band a mix of their full set and charge your own fee.. If they arent paying you much up front they should allow this (depending on some other factors) and it can be an excellent way to improve your pay..
Old 1st April 2010
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
Why are you taking jobs that you can't handle?

Don't do yourself or your client a disservice by taking on something that you can't handle... You might get yourself sued by making promises you can't keep, especially in a situation like this that can't be redone.

Good luck...
Of course, there are so many opportunities to get this kind of experience, aren't there? I was advised to not record an orchestra in rehearsal very recently because I had no experience. Did it anyway. Now I have the experience.
Old 1st April 2010
  #71
Gear Head
 

I'm in the middle of converting my garage into a studio, and need gear for that so i'm looking at killing 2 birds with the same interface/preamps.

I already have 2 500GB Glyph drives for backup + Macbook Pro, and would be looking to purchase 24 channels of mic splitter so I can use the rig for future small gigs, and if I need it in the future for larger venues, I can look into hiring a splitter to suit.

So, setup would look like this:

2x Glyph 500GB
1x HD24 - £999
1x Profire2626 - (8 Pres) - £359
2 x Octopre with ADAT (16 pres giving me a total of 24) - £700
3 x ART S8-3WAY mic splitter - £660

Total - £2718

Leaving me enough change for rack cases etc and a sheperd's pie (if one of the FOH guys will go halfsies with me)

Anyone see any probs with this potential setup?

Methinks one potential problem is that both the Profire 2626 and external HDs like to be plugged directly into the firewire port to ensure smooth running. The Macbook pro only has one firewire.

Pro Tools is out, as you can only record 18 tracks simultaneously. As far as i'm aware, i'd be able to do the 24 tracks in Logic but I can't find anywhere online to confirm this. Has anyone recorded 24 simultaneously tracks in logic?

As far as cables go, would someone be kind enough to offer some advice on this? (Apologies if this seems obvious to everyone)

24 XLRm to balanced jack loom (30m)??? (Splitter to HD24)
24 Balanced jack to jack loom (HD24 out to DAW ins)
A stage box for my own audience mics


Am I on the right lines here?
Old 1st April 2010
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabney View Post
The thing is, the budget vs, the scope of the task has already told you that your services are an afterthought.
It's a good way of putting it. I am something of an add-on to an existing setup. Not to say that that justifies me producing crap for the client, however if they wanted and could afford top quality, 100% professional results, I wouldn't be considered.

I am inexperienced in the live recording side of things, however if I can get the signals in, and get them in as clean as possible whilst causing the least amount of carnage around me, then the rest is gravy and the results will be not too dissimilar to what they would have to pay top £ for.
Old 1st April 2010
  #73
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I think you are getting advice to "go ahead and give it a shot" from those with very little live recording experience. The people doing it for a living and who know the pitfalls are telling you that you're in over your head. You're going to do the gig anyway, so I'll spare you my advice (which happens to coincide with Glissando's). One thing to think of: How many tracks do you plan on using? You might want to look at matching the track count of the FOH console. They may not (or they may) use all channels at any one time, but it's going to be a nightmare repatching to the appropriate channels on your record rig. How will you keep that all straight, and have time, especially as a one man operation? You may only need one song from each band, but how will you know which song that should be? Better to track it all and decide when you get back to the studio.

When is this gig? Let us know how it goes.
Old 1st April 2010
  #74
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bishopthomas View Post
I think you are getting advice to "go ahead and give it a shot" from those with very little live recording experience
I beg to differ, a lot of these posts have started with "I have done a lot of live recording.......". I understand your, and other's concerns, very much appreciate them and take them on board however as I have stated previously, the gig isn't till August. I will be going out in advance and getting live sound experience with the company providing the rig on the day, will be going out with various other engineers (the first of which next week) to fill in any further gaps in my knowledge. In addition, I will be buying my rig in the next few weeks and will be testing the water with it at various venues well before the festival show in August. So come the day of the gig, I will be in a much better position than I am at the present time.

Some of these post, although I feel a bit negative a times, have served to put the sh*tters up me and as a result, I will be taking every possible course of action to ensure that I give myself the best possible chance of doing the best job possible at the least inconvieniance to those around me. It is evident that getting another person on board would be a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bishopthomas View Post
One thing to think of: How many tracks do you plan on using? You might want to look at matching the track count of the FOH console. They may not (or they may) use all channels at any one time
I will be using 24. It's a 32 channel desk. Every piece of info the FOH have, I will have in advance of the gig. So if there's gonna be a band using 30 channels, I will know about it in advance and can make any necesesary arrangements/alterations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bishopthomas View Post
You may only need one song from each band, but how will you know which song that should be?
They will be asked by the promotor, who will tell me. I may however follow ebulb's advice and see about recording the whole set with a view to mixing it at a later date to get more moolah. That will depend on if any of the bands are interested.
Old 1st April 2010
  #75
Live sound experience and live recording experience are not the same, though it is good to have experience in the live sound arena before you tackle a live recording such as the one you describe.

You have gotten a lot of good advice already, but I'd like to add the following: if it were me, I would not want this festival to be my first run with the equipment. I'd get the splitters and the kit together as soon as you can and then go out and run them through their paces a few times when the stakes aren't so high. Find whoever your helper is going to be (test a out a few different helpers maybe) and go record some bands in the pubs with the rig you intend to use for the festival. Get your s**t together first before tossing yourself to the lions.

I'd not trust a laptop at all for a festival gig, but I am biased on this front. Having a UPS and redundant recorders is minimum due diligence: make sure that one recorder is not dependent in ANY way on the other: for clock, for input, for ANYTHING. Y cables or a line splitter after the mic pre's, unless the mic pre's have redundant outputs. Shock mounted road cases and wheels are your friends.

Bring a volt meter, outlet tester, soldering iron, extra cables, connectors, stands, clamps, mic's, etc. Have fans for cooling the equipment. Make sure that you are able to set up out of the elements. Know how long your power and snake runs will have to be and where they will have to go for the safety of the audience - just because you are 149 feet from the stage does not mean that a 150 foot snake run will cover you. You should be involved in every production meeting/call/email - even if only as a spectator.

Record all channels at all times - there should never be a moment when musicians are on stage that you are not recording. Make sure you have at least one open track for that last-minute, unexpected kazoo mic addition. Take good notes. Have a game plan going in. Know all the idiosyncrasies of your gear. Prepare for the absolute worst, have extra everything on hand ready to go, have a plan B ready to happen at the drop of a hat, have a plan C and even a plan D floating around in the back of your mind, just in case. Draw signal flow diagrams plotting out every connection so you can see what you are missing and what you will need more of.

You will need extra snake channels. Leave LOTS of headroom to your recorders.

I'd bring a little sidecar mixer in case someone decides to add more channels on the fly - you'll be able to submix something to two tracks.

Just by having lugged all the extra stuff, your original equipment will function just fine and there will be no need for the backup.

It is only when you DON"T have it...
Old 1st April 2010
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali.harman View Post
... however as I have stated previously, the gig isn't till August. I will be going out in advance and getting live sound experience with the company providing the rig on the day, will be going out with various other engineers (the first of which next week) to fill in any further gaps in my knowledge.
I'm really not sure how you think you can learn an entire craft in three months, but I know you're going to attempt, so good luck. I know how to tie a square knot but I'm not going to open a bungee jumping park...

There was a guy several months ago with the exact same situation as you. Hadn't had live recording experience but "how much different can it be from being in a studio?" Against our advice and warnings he attempted it himself and got disastrous results. You're not the first person to think they can buy the gear and just go do the job. But I honestly hope that your end result doesn't end up the same as that other recent poster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali.harman View Post
Some of these post, although I feel a bit negative a times, have served to put the sh*tters up me and as a result, I will be taking every possible course of action to ensure that I give myself the best possible chance of doing the best job possible at the least inconvieniance to those around me. It is evident that getting another person on board would be a good idea.
This is really all you can do if you're going to accept this job (and I know you are). I hope all goes well and we only get good reports after the gig. (You will come back to tell us how it went, right? Take pictures!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali.harman View Post
They will be asked by the promotor, who will tell me. I may however follow ebulb's advice and see about recording the whole set with a view to mixing it at a later date to get more moolah. That will depend on if any of the bands are interested.
This can be a great way to make some extra cash and an excellent marketing tool. All the more reason to ace this job. Any problems (even minor) you might encounter could lead to complete failure, and the marketing power of this is magnitudes more than if you do a perfect job. Again, good luck and please let us know how it goes.
Old 1st April 2010
  #77
Lives for gear
If you are essentially saying that you are goint to try to service the daye with 24 record tracks regardless of the number of console tracks, I would try to submix some sources to limit everything to 24. Maybe sub the drums down or something....

Anything to eliminate repatching from the console.

Some of those 32 might be effects, which you don't need.

Also, have the promoter send a memo telling the bands to NOT play the preferred song in the first three songs. This gives you a while to get the levels under control before the song they really want recorded.

Many experienced bands will realize this intuitively....but some are..yanno..
Old 1st April 2010
  #78
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bishopthomas View Post
I'm really not sure how you think you can learn an entire craft in three months.
I'm not sure what else I can do to prepare for this? If one is not deemed ready after all the three months of experience I have described, my background in the studio and being around live venues for a considerable amount of time, and with the assitance of the FOH guys at the festival, then I am amazed that anyone has done a live recording - ever.

Prior to my first studio session, I had only recorded in my house, with cubase and a 2 channel mixer. I got eased into the studio environment by a freind over the space of about 8 weeks and I was engineering my own pro tools sessions by the second month (although mixing took considerably longer). The studio is arguably just as daunting an experience as live work with obvious differences.

I don't predict I will be crossing the atlantic and taking any live work from any of you chaps in the next three months, but I will be seriously questioning my ability, and my right to have opposable thumbs, if I can't get 24 signals into a multitrack after three months of practical, on-the-job research.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bishopthomas View Post
(You will come back to tell us how it went, right? Take pictures!)
Absolutely. I will keep you posted on my progress with the rig at smaller venues too if anyone is interested (although if it all goes tits up, I very much doubt I will have the brass balls to show my virtual face here)!!:-)
Old 1st April 2010
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali.harman View Post
The studio is arguably just as daunting an experience as live work with obvious differences.
Be careful with a statement like that. In live audio you have one shot and thats it. If you don't get it then you are screwed. Also live work in live work everything is 1000x times more stressful and hurried.

Other than that you seem to be heading in the right direction. My advice is to make sure that you have at least 100ft more snake than you think you will need, and make sure that you have 1.5x as much other cable as you think you will need because having extra cable is never an issue.
Old 1st April 2010
  #80
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali.harman View Post
(although if it all goes tits up, I very much doubt I will have the brass balls to show my virtual face here)!!:-)
I hope it goes okay for you, even though I think some of the more experienced guys have a point. I did a small live recording a while ago (first one) and although it went okay, I had big problems with getting my stuff to clock properly while setting up. It worked fine in the studio, but off the dodgy back garden shed power outlet, it wasn't happening! I sorted everything out in the end, but it was a pretty stressful setup!

Anyway, what I wanted to say was that even if things go wrong, please come back because it will help others in the same situation as you. I don't think anyone wants to see you fail or say 'I told you so', so let us know how it goes so that everyone can learn from it heh
Old 2nd April 2010
  #81
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Ali


Well it seems that you're moving forward .. I notice in an earlier post you said you'd toured a bit already .. As a musician? If so, that experience should inform you pretty well, but don't fall into the trap of complacency ..

Rob Andersons post is very on point. I'd take note of everything he's listed .. And do it .. There were a number of posts too from very seasoned pro's earlier in the thread. Follow to the letter. Take all of their points and make a checklist, and you'll probably make it through ok. Consider spares and interconnects/adapters. If you're onsite for a couple of days, give some thought to gear storage, security, and what you're breaking down and resetting the next day. Will you have to roll or carry gear through mud?

A few thoughts ...

Also, have the promoter send a memo telling the bands to NOT play the preferred song in the first three songs. This gives you a while to get the levels under control before the song they really want recorded.

That's not very feasible and probably isn't going to happen that way. It's different in The UK innit? If you can get to the odd production meeting, it could help. Do it either through/with your friends at The PA company, but not through the festival administration. They don't want to know, as stated above ..

Looking at your setup, I guess it works reasonably well. There are caveats though. The laptop/interface recording method is definitely more prone to glitches/outages but "them's the breaks" within your budget. You're basically buying a rig out of this.

Myself, on standard small jobs I use my Fostex 2424VL with adat lightbridge into ProTools on a MacBook Pro, with a UPS. My system is only dual redundant up to a certain point, and yes, there are some jobs where I do go direct out of the pres at FOH .. Because I'm doing FOH.

Consider machines like The Alesis HD24 as well. I've been working with rack mount hard disk recorders for years now. My studio is still based around them. They are way more solid and reliable than a laptop on a festival site. There have been times I've watched small operators "going down in flames" trying to record shows with laptops only, so be well organised and know what you're dealing with ..

For larger remote location jobs I either work with/hire another rig which is of a higher caliber, similar to what's been described in some of the above posts. Apart from that, stay on your toes. Have a good time in August and make sure you tell us some funny stories after the event.

Regards RAy
Old 2nd April 2010
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali.harman View Post
I may however follow ebulb's advice and see about recording the whole set with a view to mixing it at a later date to get more moolah. That will depend on if any of the bands are interested.
I wasnt sure if you were even paying attention to what i had written..

I will add then that i dont think the profire is as good a choice as the saffire 56.. One of the biggest things being the profire uses two of the analog outputs if you plug headphones into it.. So its 8 analog outs or 6 if you run headphones.. The saffire has 8 analog outs and headphones are seperate..

Since the redundancy option you are looking at is kinda "pseudo redundancy" (ie: your still running one split output and same pre amps for both recorders) The best way to run what you are talking about (i think) is firewire into the computer but analog out all the pre amps into the HD24.. You could patch it up to use digitial into the HD24 but then you gotta clock everything from one source and its negating the backup aspect of a second system even further..

If you are running the HD with analog ins on its own internal clock and the computer is clocking off the main interface, you will keep the two systems more seperated. AND (getting back to the profire) if you had that running analog into the HD24 in the fashion i just described, it would give you two less channels if you wanted to run headphones also (which is obviously a yes)..

Theres also a confirmed issue from M Audio tech support about driver latency on recording with all profires, which has been there for a year now. If you do a search you will find it.. You can decide whether or not thats an issue..

Its good advice that you should keep a lot of headroom on your levels also.. A couple of times ive thought ive had something set well and then the guitarist pickups up another guitar and changes an effect and boom, its way louder..

Also, Its the wrong thing to expect someone to arrange their set around you and the recording.. I wouldnt ask anyone that, its just part of the pressure you have on you to get it right..

Also as general advice into the future.. Theres another reason not to get too comfortable with the idea of using direct outs.. A lot of them are not just post EQ, they are post insert also (most soundcraft desks are like this by default).. So you will often find FOH engineers using gates and many of them arent too great at setting thresholds etc... What you'll end up with then is every 3rd or 4th drum hit truncated or missing.. Thats really not something you want to be dealing with.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebulb View Post
I wasnt sure if you were even paying attention to what i had written..
I am very much paying attention to everything you have written and i would like to extend a very big thank you to you, and the others who answered my call for help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebulb View Post
I will add then that i dont think the profire is as good a choice as the saffire 56
The lack of headphones is something I hadn't considered. Was preferring the profire due to the pro tools aspect, but seeing as i'm going to have to track it in Logic, I may look towards the Saffire.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #84
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Ali.harman,

IMO, you have received some pretty decent responses and a few awesome ones to boot.
I trust you're enjoying our forum; did you get a chance to read some of the other threads?
Have you clicked on any of the popular tag links yet? they can be very helpful.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #85
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
Ali.harman,

IMO, you have received some pretty decent responses and a few awesome ones to boot.
I trust you're enjoying our forum; did you get a chance to read some of the other threads?
Have you clicked on any of the popular tag links yet? they can be very helpful.
I've been a browser for some time now. I've been directed here various times with searches etc although I've tended to distance myself from getting actively involved in forums due to the ratio of not nice people to nice people.

I'm pleased to say that my experience here so far has been vastly different from what i've experienced in the past .

I've been at the studio lark for a while now although i'm not really on par with a lot of the 'tech-heads' on here. I've been sifting my way through the threads although there's not really much I can contribute to aid others at the present time although hopefully that will change.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #86
Gear Maniac
 
c.gymer's Avatar
 

There has been a whole bucket load of great advice on this thread so far which I hope you take heed of. Obviously the best bit of advice is DON'T DO THE JOB!!! It is definitely punching above your pay grade (that's not an insult at all mind you so please don't take offence!). That said, you've clearly made your mind up to go ahead with this so in light of that I'll throw some suggestions your way.

1: All the advice you've had about speaking to people in advance is spot on the money. You MUST get a solid advance list together. Know exactly what the P.A. company is going to provide will help no end, but knowing stage positions and where there will be space for you and your kit should be at the top of your list of things to sort out. You won't be welcome at front of house, even if the engineer is your buddy; there simply won't be the space for you. The same goes for monitor world (assuming there is a monitor world being that it's a fairly modest tent). Basically you want to be out of everyone's way and thusly not be a pain in the arse at all.

2: Get a complete advance of all the bands you'll be recording: band members, instruments, amps, drums; the more detail the better. This way you can have a patch list drawn up and know how many inputs you're going to need. Stage positions will be helpful too.

3: Pick your kit carefully. You will need at least a stereo back up, but to do the job properly a full multitrack backup is non-negotiable. You asked for some suggestions in this area so here is mine:

Alesis HD24 as you main recorder with a Presonus 2626 firewire interface + 2 Presonus Digimax FS 8 channel mic amps. The Presonus gear will act as your mic amps sending direct outs to the HD24s line inputs. Connecting the Digimax FS' to the 2626 via ADAT and then the 2626 via firewire to your laptop will give you a multitrack backup. You can then setup 2 cue mixes on the laptop: the first should be your headphone monitor to solo channels with and the second should be a stereo mix that is sent via spdif to a digital 2 track like an Edirol etc. for your stereo backup.

4: Stress test your kit. What ever you get, if you're going to be recording for 10 hours a day then set your kit up in advance and make sure that it runs happily for that long at home. Debugging the system as much as you can before the gig will give you hands on experience of the kit and at least some form of peace of mind that you've picked reliable kit.

5: Make sure that your kit is in a GOOD rack, properly supported and protected. Festival stages are a dangerous place for valuable kit. Speaking of your rack, make sure that all the wiring is neat and tidy, preferably colour coded too so you know what is going where. Don't use unnecessarily long cables, and don't use cheap cable or connectors to save money.


After that (and repeating the wise words of some highly experienced professionals on this board saying don't do the gig!) all that's left to say is very good luck to you, and don't forget to post pictures and samples when you're done!

All the best, matey.
Old 3rd April 2010
  #87
Lives for gear
 

In my opinion running a 2 track in this scenario as an extra backup doesnt make much sense.. You are either going to have to mix on the fly with outboard gear, which means dragging lots more gear along or mix ITB which would seriously undermine the backup recording, there is no way id even consider that..

Either way it's not likely to sound that great and adds a lot of workload.. Also, its a festival where nobodies getting a soundcheck and you got lots of bands playing.. There'll be short changeover times so it makes much more sense to dedicate your time to monitoring levels and ensuring the multitrack is done well.. If i were to go for a 2 track also, id get an SD recorder with a big memory card and stick it out at FOH and let it record the whole day from there.
Old 3rd April 2010
  #88
Lives for gear
 

I agree that trying to create a mix on the fly will not be useful, and actually detrimental to the recording. Focus on capturing the audio, not mixing it. Having said that, a stereo recorder recording the FOH feed might not be a bad idea as a second backup machine (the HD24 or similar should be the first backup).
Old 3rd April 2010
  #89
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali.harman View Post
I've been a browser for some time now. I've been directed here various times with searches etc although I've tended to distance myself from getting actively involved in forums due to the ratio of not nice people to nice people.

I'm pleased to say that my experience here so far has been vastly different from what i've experienced in the past .
See, I was going to say that you haven't been around these parts, but I read further.
IMHO, being helpful is our main mindset at the "Remote Possibilities..." forum.
Around here we do our best to get along with everyone.
For the most part, this is indeed a normal everyday experience for us.
Trolls don't get their fill around here much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali.harman View Post
I've been at the studio lark for a while now although i'm not really on par with a lot of the 'tech-heads' on here. I've been sifting my way through the threads although there's not really much I can contribute to aid others at the present time although hopefully that will change.
No worries here; take as much from this forum as you can.
This is a place where everyone is welcomed.
All I can say is, do your best absorbing the (correct) information from this forum and in no time you will be contributing all sorts of solid stuff.
Old 3rd April 2010
  #90
LX3
Lives for gear
 
LX3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali.harman View Post
If one is not deemed ready after all the three months of experience I have described, my background in the studio and being around live venues for a considerable amount of time, and with the assitance of the FOH guys at the festival, then I am amazed that anyone has done a live recording - ever.
Well, people start with something a little smaller/less pressured than recording a stage at a major festival!

My first gigs were very much about finding my feet and figuring out what worked and what didn't. Let's just say, a large number of things about my early jobs were way short of "optimal". But those first gigs were all for musical friends/family, largely unpaid, and were situations where if the recording was a bust, it wasn't going to be a huge career-destroying issue.

I would say (and it's funny, other people have also said this) that it took four years of small-ish gigs before I really had it together... it takes time to build a workable rig, and it takes time to figure out how to deal with the characters and situations that live recording throws at you.

A couple of things aren't clear to me...:

1) Are you aiming to make live recording your main occupation, long-term? If so, be prepared to spend 15-20 times your current budget (i.e. £40,000 - £60,000) on gear... not in the next few months of course, but over the next few years. It's a lot of cash. Once you're in halfway, it's hard to get out! It's financially more prudent not to get in in the first place if the committment is likely to be too much.

2) What are the recordings to be used for? If some of the recordings turn out unusable, will it be an issue? If it IS going to be an issue, I would consider getting some experienced hands on board, as there's a risk here that your career in live sound recording could take a massive knock before it's even started.

This said, I do wish you luck. You've landed a very sweet opportunity.
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