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The ultimate *affordable* omni's for main miking large orchestras Condenser Microphones
Old 23rd June 2018
  #151
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hbphotoav's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
interesting... the good thing about having separate mics instead of capsules is that you can use them all at once...
Bingo.

If I could only have two SDC pairs, I'd have DPA4060/61 and MKH8040. One, or the other, or both ("both" being generally deployed ORTF 8040 between 4061 in 1m AB on a thin rod). I can very nicely live with what I can capture from those boys.

HB
Old 11th October 2018
  #152
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Stradivariusz's Avatar
I don't know if it's only me, but...if we speak about affordable omnis with the "wow!" factor..
Just made a recording of a small ensemble playing some unknown baroque stuff. :D
Baroque instruments - violino solo, violini 1 and 2, viola, cello, doublebass, cembalo. Very dry studio - I guess around 80m2, but very well executed if we speak in the terms of the acoustics. It was their first rehearsal, so forgive them some amount of free interpretation of the musical aspects
For this recording I just used one pair of omni microphones. Won't say the name yet. I'm very courious if you would guess what are they.
I'm still polishing my skills in using just omnis, so I guess you could say also some useful critique about the sound, placement etc.

Distance between mics was around 45cm, I guess more than 3m high. 1,5m at front of the ensemble.

I see few things I should correct in the recording - speaking about placement of the microphones, but wow!!!, I'm sooo suprised by the detail and sound of these mics...I won't say - bass thrills like in DPA 4006, but the thrill is definitely there.

Just a tad of reverb was added.

Edit - 12/10/2018:

To make the riddle a little more transparent - it is a microphone which aroused quite turbulent discussions here on the forum. Don't want to say more. Very known and very cheap.
Attached Files

Autumn.mp3 (2.84 MB, 1397 views)


Last edited by Stradivariusz; 12th October 2018 at 06:07 AM..
Old 12th October 2018
  #153
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Not a big interest in the riddle. Doesn't matter
The mics are Rode NT5 with omni capsule. Pre and A/D - Audient ASP800, D/A - RME Digiface.
Pointed out of the side of the orchestra, I guess around 110* degrees.
Pointed forward on the orchestra gave a much too sharp, busy and unpleasant sound, but they were not yet in the diffuse field, which for this room started still around 50cm higher (that's what I've noticed by the ear placing other microphones that high) Opening them up was suddenly very nice to listen.
Enjoying them a lot.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #154
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Can a pair of AKG C414 be a good solution for recording an orchestra (or an ensemble) with an AB spaced pair of omni?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #155
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edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba1977 View Post
Can a pair of AKG C414 be a good solution for recording an orchestra (or an ensemble) with an AB spaced pair of omni?
Of course. Not "the best", but certainly OK. It's subjective, and other factors will have as much or more of an effect on the sound anyway.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edva View Post
Of course. Not "the best", but certainly OK. It's subjective, and other factors will have as much or more of an effect on the sound anyway.
PS if you already own them, then use them, it's OK. But, I would not buy them expressly for this purpose.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edva View Post
PS if you already own them, then use them, it's OK. But, I would not buy them expressly for this purpose.
Is it because they are LDC? Or is it because there are other LDC that are better as main pair?
I thought to these mics because they have multiple polar patterns.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #158
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edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba1977 View Post
Is it because they are LDC? Or is it because there are other LDC that are better as main pair?
I thought to these mics because they have multiple polar patterns.
They are OK.
Yes, multi-pattern is a huge benefit for this kind of recording.
Yes, there are better LDC.
Not sure of your budget, but in a similar price range as the 414 I prefer Shure KSM 44, as one example. I find the highs to be smoother, and the overall response to be "flatter" or "more accurate", in addition to typically less self noise, and just a better sound overall.
Some of that of course is subjective.
For more money of course there are several high end LDCs to choose from, e.g. Neumann 170, etc.
Yes, typically a SDC style is used in this kind of recording. But, that is not mandatory. And high quality SDC are usually quite expensive. Again, not sure of your budget, but a high quality SDC of this type is typically more expensive than 414. B & K, DPA, or Schoeps just for example. It cost money to get an SDC with low self noise.
But:
For less money but still good quality MBHO is very good.
Beyer 910 is pretty nice.
Shure 141 is OK for even less.
A good pair of Oktava 012 omni is decent.
Maybe something from Audio Technica, i.e. 4022.
And etc.
All that being said, you can of course get decent results with your 414s too.
I hope some of that is helpful. Good luck.

Last edited by edva; 3 weeks ago at 11:23 PM.. Reason: sp+
Old 3 weeks ago
  #159
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pkautzsch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba1977 View Post
Can a pair of AKG C414 be a good solution for recording an orchestra (or an ensemble) with an AB spaced pair of omni?
Any decent pair of mics can work, and as Edva stated:

Quote:
Originally Posted by edva View Post
other factors will have as much or more of an effect on the sound anyway.
Amongst those factors I'd count mic placement, room sound, audience noises, and most important, the quality of performance and composition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba1977 View Post
Is it because they are LDC? Or is it because there are other LDC that are better as main pair?
I thought to these mics because they have multiple polar patterns.
Well, you don't need multiple patterns if you want a pair of omnis, do you.
Most multipattern mics are basically two cardioids back to back, and the different patterns are achieved by varying the polarization voltage and therefore sensitivity of each diaphragm.
LDCs usually tend to add color to the room sound because of diaphragm size, that's one reason many classical recordings use SDCs - and amongst these, many use DPA/B&K 4006 because these have even smaller diaphragms than Schoepses or Neumanns. (OT: Oh the quest for that perfectly linear representation of what's happening in this great hall - ever thought about if that actually translates to a CD listener's living room?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by edva View Post
Yes, typically a SDC style is used in this kind of recording. But, that is not mandatory. And high quality SDC are usually quite expensive.
Not more expensive than high quality LDC, look at Neumann prices for, say, KM-A and TLM series mics. Actually I can get a KM-A body with 3 capsules for about the same price that I'd pay for a U87.

Yes, it's absolutely not mandatory to use SDCs, as pointed out above (other factors). One thing, though, is substantially different in SDC omnis, and that's that they are pressure transducers instead of "two gradient transducers (cardioids) back to back" like multipattern LDCs. Soundwise this is most obvious in a way more accurate bass response, lack of proximity effect, and a more linear off axis response.
Of course, in a bass heavy room you might actually prefer a lighter mic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edva View Post
Yes, multi-pattern is a huge benefit for this kind of recording.
I can't quite follow you here, referring to the question if 414s would be good for a spaced *omni* pair.
If I had only one pair of mics, it probably would be 414s or 170s or something similar. But I strongly prefer owning (or being able to rent) a variety of Schoepses, Neumanns, AKGs, Oktavas, and whatever else fits the job.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #160
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edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkautzsch View Post

I can't quite follow you here, referring to the question if 414s would be good for a spaced *omni* pair.
Excellent post, glad you took the time to expound a bit for the sake of the OP.
I snipped only this part to answer your query.
Multipattern is a nice option to have for this type of recording because, as much as I love omni, sometimes there are instances where another pattern works better. You know this I'm sure so I will not list all the possible examples.
But yes, obviously, if one _only ever wanted to record in omni, all they would need would be omni mics.
Again, kudos on your excellent post.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #161
Here's a review I did recently, comparing the Earthworks OM1 (great, semi-affordable omni) to a Shure SM81 and Oktava MK-012. I realize that these mics are inherently different designs in regards to polar patterns and typical uses...but it might shed some light on how it compares to more common SDC mics. There are comparison audio samples for a mono drum overhead and acoustic guitar. Sorry no orchestra samples. I hope it's helpful!

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