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Sennheiser headphones Studio Headphones
Old 27th November 2009
  #31
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Originally Posted by avebr View Post
For so much money I would try an electrostatic... Stax?

Even if a bit more expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
...and, how would the Stax fair on the road on all sorts of location productions?
Couple of things...............

Electrostats have a very light and responsive diaphragm that is excellent at resolving music; but thay tend not to have such a good bottom end response compared to dynamic headphones.

Dynamic headphones have a heavy diaphragm, this can deform as it moves. There are various ways to reduce this, often making the diaphragm a sandwich to minimise distortions.

The HD 800 is unique in that it has a patented ring diaphragm with a very large voice-coil and magnet. This means that there is a very small distance between the voice-coil and edge to minimise distortions of the diaphragm fabric and the larrge voice-coil means that it is fast and responsive and also moves a lot of air to get a good bass response (there are three patents in the design of the HD 800). It also has angled capsules so the waveform hits the ears at a similar angle as if it was coming from loudspeakers.

I think you'll find that the HD 800 gets close to an electrostatic in the top end and will be better at the bottom end.
Old 27th November 2009
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
(...) (there are three patents in the design of the HD 800). It also has angled capsules so the waveform hits the ears at a similar angle as if it was coming from loudspeakers.

I think you'll find hat the HD 800 gets close to an electrostatic in the top end and will be better at the bottom end.

Hummmm... the best of both worlds? Nice promise!

I'm even more curious to hear it!



all the best,
ave.

PS: for a while still with HD600+Cardas...
Old 4th December 2009
  #33
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I finally made my choice: my new AKG K 702 headphones arrived in the mail today. They're wonderful! I'm listening to Karajan conducting Beethoven's 7th Symphony as I write this. The sound is warm, immediate, detailed and musical. If there is in fact something lacking in the low-mids then it's not bothering me in the slightest.

I also went through a few piano recordings in my collection. Interestingly, all of my favorites sounded even better than I remember and all the recordings I don't like sounded worse. Good times!
Old 4th December 2009
  #34
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Originally Posted by BrianHanke View Post
I finally made my choice: my new AKG K 702 headphones arrived in the mail today.
If they are like the 701, they will need about 500 hours use before they are properly burned in.
Old 4th December 2009
  #35
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I look forward to them sounding even better as time goes on!
Old 4th December 2009
  #36
Quote:
I'm listening to Karajan conducting Beethoven's 7th Symphony as I write this.
Best-7th-Ever!
Old 4th December 2009
  #37
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Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
Best-7th-Ever!
You may forget Carlos Kleiber...
Old 5th December 2009
  #38
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For those suffering from the "otherwise almost perfect, but damn these thin crappy cables" syndrome which affects the Sennheiser HD600's and 580's, do yourself a favour and order the considerably cheaper, yet thicker and more rugged and robust HD650 replacement cable (original Senn part number is 092885) which is a direct retrofit for the regular, easy to break (internally...which gives you an infuriating intermittent connection which you'll persist with for about 2 weeks until you rip them out of the phones in disgust !!) cable. Only 2 downsides: 1) they arent colour coded for L/R like the regular cable, but a spot of red nail polish or 5mm of red heatshrink will fix that, and 2) it's terminated in a 6.35 mm (1/4") plug only, instead of the convertible 1/4" to 1/8" plug that the regular cable has. This may not be a problem for you at all ? They cost around $12.50 to $15 and may have to be back ordered in, but several online suppliers can get them for you. It's the cable the HD600's deserved all along !
Here's the link to the Sennheiser shop reference for it:
Retail 2002
I hope this helps people out there to regain respect for this great item (and the 580 too !)
Ray
Old 5th December 2009
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
Best-7th-Ever!
No doubt!
Old 2nd February 2010
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
If they are like the 701, they will need about 500 hours use before they are properly burned in.
I just got the K702 phones and think I'm sending them back UNLESS this "burn in" process will fix them. And by fixing I mean making it so they're less brash/bright sounding. I want them to sound more like my akg 240df, or regular 240's where as when I compare the sound of them to my monitors (focal twin 6's), it's very similar. So far when I put on the K702's there's a pretty serious bump in the upper mid range. What exactly should I expect after they're properly burned in? Anyone?
Old 2nd February 2010
  #41
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I'm in the same situation: I got the K701 one week ago and I have for several years a K240 Monitor 600 ohms, which I was no longer using much because I preferred the Beyer 990. It is the same headphone like the K702 except for details (removable cable on the 702 for instance)

I find the 701 and 240 being in the same sound family; especially the low end is lightened, which I like for music listening but may be fallacious for monitoring. I prefer the Beyer for monitoring because it is closer to the rendering from my loudspeakers. It is also more comfortable than the AKGs. The stereo image from the 701 is great.
Old 2nd February 2010
  #42
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Stax Omega vs. Sennheiser HD-800...?

Slightly off topic, but... does anyone have actual real-world experience of both these cans? I had the Stax Omega II system and it was *by far* the best sounding headphone I used. I couldn't afford to keep them, unfortunately, but I used them intensively for about 2 years. By the way, the "budget" (i.e. sub £1500) Stax systems aren't nearly as good as the Omega II system. If you're looking for Stax, the Omega is the only way to go.
Old 8th February 2010
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
the K701 ..is the same headphone like the K701 except for details (removable cable on the 702 for instance)
I am currently in possesion of new AKG K701 (about a month) and K702's (about 2 weeks), and they do not sound as similar as i thought they would. I really liked the the natural sound and wide soundstage of the 701's, even though the bass is light (and i HATE the way they look).

Then I listened to the 702's for a couple a weeks (looking killer in black and silver). But I have noticed they are brighter and less balanced in the mids. I'm burning em in some more, but even if that opens up the bass, I'm not sure how it would help the mid - hi balance.

BTW the cups on the 702s are physically deeper, so you may get a little better soundstage, though that could also be attributed to the added hi emphasis. Who knows, maybe even 2 pairs of the same model might have some significant variation....
Old 8th February 2010
  #44
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Since my first post (and because I couldn't return them) I decided to try burning in the 702s. Even after just 24 hours of burn in they sounded less harsh. I was very relieved. So, I've continued the burn in for many days now (using an ipod). Also, instead of listening through my normal rolls headphone amp I plugged them into my Benchmark DAC1. Wow, what a difference! I've used the Benchmark before for headphones but with these suckers it was very apparent that there was a quality boost. Since the benchmark feeds my main speakers I put an ATTY after it which has a mute button so I can now use the benchmark and just mute the mains easily while mixing and have the benefit of the better converters in the DAC for the 702s. I'll report back if their sound changes any more.
Old 8th February 2010
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_free69 View Post
I am currently in possesion of new AKG K701 (about a month) and K702's (about 2 weeks), and they do not sound as similar as i thought they would. I really liked the the natural sound and wide soundstage of the 701's, even though the bass is light (and i HATE the way they look).

There was a mistake in my previous post: I've got the K701, which I thought having the same sound like the K702.

I agree on the natural sound and the wide sound stage from the 701. Did you notice that burning would make the lows stronger ?
Old 8th February 2010
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davey boy View Post
Since my first post (and because I couldn't return them) I decided to try burning in the 702s. Even after just 24 hours of burn in they sounded less harsh. I was very relieved.
My understanding is that the K701 (and I assume the 702 would be the same) need something like 500 hours to burn in.
Old 9th February 2010
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avebr View Post
I would suggest to you try to find an HD580 - it uses the same drivers of the HD600, it's just lest fancy and ergonomic. You may find a very good deal on it, and the same HD600 sound.
I have Both the HD580 and the HD600. Both purchased new. They may have the same driver, they they do not sound the same. The 580 seems to be more relaxed in the high frequencies, the HD600 seems crisper/cleaner overall. Both are good, but I prefer to edit with the 600's and listen for enjoyment with the 580.

Mike
Old 9th February 2010
  #48
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Cool

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Originally Posted by Celloman View Post
I have Both the HD580 and the HD600. Both purchased new. They may have the same driver, they they do not sound the same. The 580 seems to be more relaxed in the high frequencies, the HD600 seems crisper/cleaner overall. Both are good, but I prefer to edit with the 600's and listen for enjoyment with the 580.
Mike, try putting the 600 backs on the 580 and then listen to them.

The backs pull off easily and are easy to swap - I put 600 backs on my 580s years ago.
Old 9th February 2010
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
There was a mistake in my previous post: I've got the K701, which I thought having the same sound like the K702.

I agree on the natural sound and the wide sound stage from the 701. Did you notice that burning would make the lows stronger ?
I've done this on speakers I've built and i belevie it helps the woofers for sure, but I never had to do it for so LONG. I only do it this much because everyone says to ( don't tell my mom . I wonder if its really your ears that get "burned-in" or at least used to the sound. Besides how can i remember what they sounded like 2 weeks before? I'll let them burn-in a couple more days and then we'll see. i can still return the 702's if I don't like them as much as the 701's
Old 9th February 2010
  #50
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Dynamic loudspeaker drivers/transducers have a suspension that undergoes changes when exercised. The membrane/cone/dome can change as well.

The effect is sometimes large sometimes small and it's easily measured.

Since the suspension compliance only has a significant effect around system resonance it basically only affects this region. Above resonance the dynamic driver is mass controlled.

Or the short version;drivers burn in.


/Peter
Old 9th February 2010
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_free69 View Post
I've done this on speakers I've built and i belevie it helps the woofers for sure, but I never had to do it for so LONG. I only do it this much because everyone says to ( don't tell my mom . I wonder if its really your ears that get "burned-in" or at least used to the sound. Besides how can i remember what they sounded like 2 weeks before? I'll let them burn-in a couple more days and then we'll see. i can still return the 702's if I don't like them as much as the 701's

Jeff, you don't need to have them on your head for the burn-in process. Simply run some audio through them. You can even use white noise to get an even burn.
Old 9th February 2010
  #52
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Originally Posted by mllrtms View Post
You can even use white noise to get an even burn.
No - it's *pink* noise you want to use as pink noise has all frequencies in it.
Old 9th February 2010
  #53
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White noise also. White noise is frequency flat. Pink noise has a decreasing power vs. frequency, 3 dB per octave. I would prefer a Kind of Blue noise.
Old 10th February 2010
  #54
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Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
White noise also. White noise is frequency flat. Pink noise has a decreasing power vs. frequency, 3 dB per octave. I would prefer a Kind of Blue noise.
The designer of the HD 800 actually recommended 48 hours of pink noise to burn in and stressed pink not white.
Old 10th February 2010
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mllrtms View Post
Jeff, you don't need to have them on your head for the burn-in process. Simply run some audio through them. You can even use white noise to get an even burn.
heh - I'm not that ********!

While I'm at work I've had them plugged into a receiver tuned to a local rock station here in NYC. Not sure what type of noise that qualifies as, but the way they massacre the music with processing its probably not far from white

Did another comparison last night and the 702's are still significantly more crisp than the 701's. Neither has strong bass , but I can leave my subwoofer on to compensate. Another day or 2 , but the 702s will probably have to go back
Old 11th February 2010
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
Mike, try putting the 600 backs on the 580 and then listen to them.

The backs pull off easily and are easy to swap - I put 600 backs on my 580s years ago.
They sound the same to me now.. thanks for the heads up!

Mike
Old 13th February 2010
  #57
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Ok i officially gave up on the AKG 702s. After well over 100 hours of burn-in they never developed the bass that even the 701s have (and that is slightly light). Moreover, they are way crispier, and that's TOO crisp. My 30 days is running out and there's no point keeping them around at nearly $300. They'd be totally useless to mix on and aren't even enjoyable for serious listening.

Maybe I'll put the refund towards an uber-phone dream fund (Senn 800 or Denon 7000). I still haven't found the holy grail - my AKG701 have nice mid/hi's; my ATH 50's have very strong bass. One of my old AKG 240M's is still respectable even though it is without very much extension at either extreme (kinda like a nice sounding equivalent of an NS10)
Old 13th February 2010
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_free69 View Post
Ok i officially gave up on the AKG 702s. After well over 100 hours of burn-in they never developed the bass that even the 701s have (and that is slightly light). Moreover, they are way crispier, and that's TOO crisp. My 30 days is running out and there's no point keeping them around at nearly $300. They'd be totally useless to mix on and aren't even enjoyable for serious listening.

Maybe I'll put the refund towards an uber-phone dream fund (Senn 800 or Denon 7000). I still haven't found the holy grail - my AKG701 have nice mid/hi's; my ATH 50's have very strong bass. One of my old AKG 240M's is still respectable even though it is without very much extension at either extreme (kinda like a nice sounding equivalent of an NS10)
Sounds like a plan.I can't return mine,but, I'm OK with them as they do sound much better since I let them burn in for a long time. Also, a huge difference was in utilizing the headphone amp in the DAC1. Wow!! If you're not using a serious D/A converter headphone amp setup them maybe that's something to consider.
Old 13th February 2010
  #59
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All real comparison testing has just been with marantz and NAD cd players on commercial CDs, no special amps. But on the same systems the difference between 702 and 701 was big and everyone says they are supposed to be essentially the same. Even bigger was the difference compared to ATHM50 and AKG240M. I can only think this is an anomaly of this particular production run.

It seems there's a trend toward brighter more open sounding headphones lately . maybe they're caught up in a loudness war? I also found Beyer 990 and Denon 2000 overly hyped.

My thought at the moment is that the 10++ year old AKG 240M are still the most reliable for doing mix related duties on. ironical;}
Old 13th February 2010
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_free69 View Post
heh - I'm not that ********!

While I'm at work I've had them plugged into a receiver tuned to a local rock station here in NYC. Not sure what type of noise that qualifies as, but the way they massacre the music with processing its probably not far from white
I just wanted to be sure you would not be hurting your hearing by over exposing them to the constant sound of your headphones. I didn't intend to make you sound "********". I apologize.


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
The designer of the HD 800 actually recommended 48 hours of pink noise to burn in and stressed pink not white.
That is interesting. I would have expected the flat quality of white noise to be better suited. Pink noise did not seem to have the right qualities but I'm sure the designer of a professional headphone would know much more about it. I'll keep that in mind for the next pair of cans I burn in.
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