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Good live tom mics.
Old 3rd February 2006
  #31
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Remoteness's Avatar
E604s are OK but, my favorite dynamic tom mic is the MD409. They're kind of hard to find. I hear the 906 is a close match but, I cannot verify it since I haven't tried them yet.

The EV ND468 are pretty cool too...
If you have space between the toms and cymbells MD421 are hard to beat.

Last edited by Remoteness; 3rd February 2006 at 07:14 AM..
Old 3rd February 2006
  #32
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by maar
SE Electronics SE2a! in box with spider and 3 modules: hypercardi/cardi/omni
Incredible value for money
What is your reasoning for putting a $600 worth of Small Diaphram Condensor mics in front of a guy with two sticks whose job it is to beat the things the mics are attached to?

I agree with the EV N/D468's beings the best for the job. I own 3 of them already and plan on getting 3 more as soon as I can so I can have all 5 toms and the snare. I currently have the EV N/D478 for the snare and the EV N/D868 for the bass.


Compare the Polar patterns and see which one you think is going to be better for the toms.


http://shop.sennheiserusa.com/retail...E604_polar.jpg

http://www.telex.com/electrovoice/EV...wired)-eds.pdf

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite...e609silver.pdf

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/pdfs/md421ii.pdf
Old 3rd February 2006
  #33
Gear Nut
 

EV 468's I especially love. They pick up the "sticky- ness" of the toms quite well too - especially if you are into more "jazzy" rock where every component of the drums is important (not just kick n snare). Great tones....

Also cool on drums by EV is the 868 for kick & the 168 is very nice for snare, sounds as good (if not better than a 57) & is quite compact & not as likely to be smacked as the 57 either.

I mic our entire kit with EV, other than the OH's.......for now.......
Old 3rd February 2006
  #34
Gear Maniac
 

MD409 vs. 509?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness
E604s are OK but, my favorite dynamic tom mic is the MD409. They're kind of hard to find. I hear the 906 is a close match but, I cannot verify it since I haven't tried them yet.

The EV ND468 are pretty cool too...
If you have space between the toms and cymbells MD421 are hard to beat.
Just recently acquired some very excellent condition 409's for use on guitars. Every now and then I see a 509 on ebay. What differences are they *if any* between the 409 and the 509?

Am very much looking forward to hearing the 409 on a grille with a 121 a number of inches out...IBP phase alighned. Through the Shadow Hills GAMA....aaaaaahhhhh.

Have a couple 468's that I use for toms in live sound and live sound recording. Good mics...worth the money.

I've used the 604 on floor tom (recording & live sound) and it was not memorable.

Vintage "Sennies" (421) to 421-II.... any REAL difference as far as capturing toms are concerned?

B1's *for me* really are the shiznit. Yes..they bleed. But damn...the TONE..THE TONE!!!! Have 4 of em. Have expanders handy....to minimize (not kill completely) cymbal/snare/& hat bleed.

Best, trans
Old 3rd February 2006
  #35
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Sound Sorcerer's Avatar
 

I like the Electrovoice 468 for toms & other percussion. Excellent sound, reach & low profile...
Old 3rd February 2006
  #36
Gear Nut
Beta 98'8
MD 421's or 441's
Try a D112 on the floor
Old 3rd February 2006
  #37
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Jim vanBergen's Avatar
 

I have eight 504s I like to use; depending on the tuning of the tom I also like Audix D2 or D4's, especially on the floor or lower tuned toms- the D4 was their first dedicated kick mic and its just FAT on big drums!

421s (originals, not the re-release!) sound amazing, but making them fit on a busy kit is tough, and if you're swapping mics between bands, the clips from Senn & Audix D series are great.

I use Shure 98s a lot though I not a huge fan...plenty of stick and attack if you like the hard edge, but never enough DRUM tone for my flavor. YMMV....
Old 3rd February 2006
  #38
pan
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pan's Avatar
 

I work for a band whos drummer is really soft on the toms.

Shure Beta 98s and EV 368/468 worked best for me among the others mentioned.


And to add another mic to check:

Ramsa/(Panasonic) SM-2 a miniature clip-on with external PSU.
Usually advertised for Brass.(discontinued)

n
Old 3rd February 2006
  #39
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by transfiguration
Just recently acquired some very excellent condition 409's for use on guitars. Every now and then I see a 509 on ebay. What differences are they *if any* between the 409 and the 509?

Am very much looking forward to hearing the 409 on a grille with a 121 a number of inches out...IBP phase alighned. Through the Shadow Hills GAMA....aaaaaahhhhh.

Have a couple 468's that I use for toms in live sound and live sound recording. Good mics...worth the money.

I've used the 604 on floor tom (recording & live sound) and it was not memorable.

Vintage "Sennies" (421) to 421-II.... any REAL difference as far as capturing toms are concerned?

B1's *for me* really are the shiznit. Yes..they bleed. But damn...the TONE..THE TONE!!!! Have 4 of em. Have expanders handy....to minimize (not kill completely) cymbal/snare/& hat bleed.

Best, trans

trans,

How many MD409s did you find? Any amount is an awesome situation. I never understood why Sennheiser never made them available stateside until late, and then discontinued them completely.

Try the MD409s on toms -- you may dig them a lot. You do have a couple of ND468s so my suggestion may not apply. The 468s are very cool tom mics for sure.

From what I understand the MD509 is the exact same mic as the MD409. I believe it's the European model number for that transducer. Corrections to my statement are welcomed.

Man, the MD409 / R121 combo sounds wonderful on GTR cabinets. I don't own any IBPs yet (WHAT!!!) Having the ability to phase align those mics up front rather than in the mix is killer cool stuff.

IMO, vintage MD421s is the only way to go... Don't ever put an old one up against a MKII. You will not believe your ears. They do not sound the same at all.
I have 12 or 13 of the oldies... I had to buy another one and ended up getting the MKII... Bad move -- They cannot be used in conjunction with the vintage ones. My MKII is now a spare mic in "Jethro's" Control cabin. I didn't want to keep it with the others because I was afraid that someone would use it as a pair with an older one. On its own, they're not too bad. Putting it up against a REAL one is another story.

Yeah, bleed is a good thing especially when you capture the good leakage with those mics.
Old 5th February 2006
  #40
Gear Maniac
 

421's.. .U5 to U4 to 421-II???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness
trans,

How many MD409s did you find? Any amount is an awesome situation. I never understood why Sennheiser never made them available stateside until late, and then discontinued them completely.

Try the MD409s on toms -- you may dig them a lot. You do have a couple of ND468s so my suggestion may not apply. The 468s are very cool tom mics for sure.

From what I understand the MD509 is the exact same mic as the MD409. I believe it's the European model number for that transducer. Corrections to my statement are welcomed.

Man, the MD409 / R121 combo sounds wonderful on GTR cabinets. I don't own any IBPs yet (WHAT!!!) Having the ability to phase align those mics up front rather than in the mix is killer cool stuff.

IMO, vintage MD421s is the only way to go... Don't ever put an old one up against a MKII. You will not believe your ears. They do not sound the same at all.
I have 12 or 13 of the oldies... I had to buy another one and ended up getting the MKII... Bad move -- They cannot be used in conjunction with the vintage ones. My MKII is now a spare mic in "Jethro's" Control cabin. I didn't want to keep it with the others because I was afraid that someone would use it as a pair with an older one. On its own, they're not too bad. Putting it up against a REAL one is another story.

Yeah, bleed is a good thing especially when you capture the good leakage with those mics.
Steve,

I was able to pick up a couple 409's and a 421 for a K. I was able to try the 409 on a floor tom last night and was pleased. I'm betting I would like them on rack toms better though.

I havn't read/heard any differently than you have regarding the 509. I believe it is sometimes referenced as the "fire..something" version because of the red lettering.

At some point in time I would like to have up to 6 of these IBP phase alighnment tools. It would be a very cool thing to be able to phase align:
  • guitar grille mic to a mic placed 6 to 12 inches back
  • bass di to miced bass (EV 27?)
  • inside kick to outside kick
  • etc., etc.

Of course, having the TIME and PATIENCE of all those involved in a live recording to do this is another matter all together.

My experience has been its just go. go. go and then hit record.

Regarding the 421's....the "vintage" 421's... ..how are these identified clearly... cuz as far as I know there is the 421-II (Does it even not suite your preferences for miced grille guitar?) the 421 U5 and the 421 U4. I'm not clear on these differences.

Have you had the chance to hear the Studio Projects B1's on toms? I know many balk at these chinky mics but I'm telling you for a hundred a pop they are huge contenders to the 468's I've been using. Maybe even the vintage 421's?

chris
Old 5th February 2006
  #41
Gear Addict
 

hmm, I like the d2 on the small rack in the studio,
Never noticed it having too much click. You mean stick attack right?
Is this just a live thing in your opinion?
That could be the type of heads too I suppose.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitarl
Be careful with the audix mics. I think they can sound clicky in a live situation. Placement will help but a sound guy might turn your toms into clicks.
Old 5th February 2006
  #42
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AlexLakis's Avatar
 

Yet another vote for the e604. They're good-sounding mics, small, non-obstructive, and can take a HELL of a beating.
Old 5th February 2006
  #43
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blackcom's Avatar
 

The E604 has a "flabby" top and sounds thin in a mix, I hate them!

How would you guyes compare the D4/D2, ATM25 and EV468 in terms of sound and clicky-ness?
Old 5th February 2006
  #44
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AdamJay's Avatar
 

i found the AT4041 condensers to be surprisingly useful on toms. ESPECIALLY jazz/blues drummers, or when the use of toms is subtle. (read: Not Bonham)
There is some proximity effect, but at 3 or 4 inches, it seems to be 'just right' on toms.
gotta gate em though.

otherwise i use 421's.
Old 5th February 2006
  #45
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JonCraig's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcom
The E604 has a "flabby" top and sounds thin in a mix, I hate them!
i agree! however, i can see the usefulness for a live situation--with the low profile & all. (most of the occasional live recording i do is primarily for later release, so i usually end up sound replacing the toms anyway... flame away!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJay
i found the AT4041 condensers to be surprisingly useful on toms.
once in a studio setting, the drummer's tom heads were dead as a doornail. at 4033's gave them a lot of snap, and ended up sounding pretty good in the mix.

--jon
Old 5th February 2006
  #46
Gear Maniac
 

Tom Mics

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcom
How would you guyes compare the D4/D2, ATM25 and EV468 in terms of sound and clicky-ness?
EV468

ATM 25

Audix D4

Studio Projects B1
Old 5th February 2006
  #47
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blackcom's Avatar
 

I'm not too good at "translating" specs, I kinda need to hear them

Seems like i've gonna get either EV468, ATM23 or D2/D4 myself....

Actually, the EV468 looks a littel fragile...what if it's aimed at the head with the cables pointing up and the drummer hits it....won't those cables break??
Old 18th May 2015
  #48
Here for the gear
 

I only do live work. The Audix sound great for natural tom sound but in my experiences let in a lot of symbol bleed that almost buried the toms themselves. 421's are amazing but they are absolutely massive to use live. The sennheisers are nice and compact and very direct. I get a lot of tom and very little symbol bleed. They are clean and tight. The 602's can help you add a little more of the low end and keep it tight. My favorite live though are the 904's. They are full, tight, don't let much bleed in and they sound awesome. They are a little bit pricier though sitting at about $250.

Hope this helps.
Old 19th May 2015
  #49
Don't much like the e604 - I'll agree with the comment that they sound like 57's on the toms.

After hearing a shootout between the two, I ponied up the extra cash for the e904, and I've never been sorry - nice sounding mic on toms.
Old 19th May 2015
  #50
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
The e904 are indeed a great n improvement to the e604 mics.
That said, I love MD421s on toms. If the cymbals aren't in the way, it's hard to beat that full bodied sound the MD421s give you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobAnderson View Post
Don't much like the e604 - I'll agree with the comment that they sound like 57's on the toms.

After hearing a shootout between the two, I ponied up the extra cash for the e904, and I've never been sorry - nice sounding mic on toms.
Old 19th May 2015
  #51
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Temple of Light's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexLakis View Post
Yet another vote for the e604. They're good-sounding mics, small, non-obstructive, and can take a HELL of a beating.
They're great mics and they work best as internal mics, warm, present, dynamic, and LOUD!
Old 19th May 2015
  #52
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Temple of Light's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by C/G View Post
Thanks. I don't want some anemic mic. I know the E604's get a good rap but just want to weigh the alternatives. D2 for rack tom and D4 for floor tom?
Exactly. Use E604's if you can mount them internally.
Old 19th May 2015
  #53
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Zombie thread comes back from the dead! Hear the tom-toms beating their spooky tattoo.
Old 8th June 2015
  #54
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Roland's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
The e904 are indeed a great n improvement to the e604 mics.
That said, I love MD421s on toms. If the cymbals aren't in the way, it's hard to beat that full bodied sound the MD421s give you.
Me too, however, as you point out it's difficult to mount them, particularly these days as everyone tends to mount cymbals a lot closer.

My fav's in no particular order:

EV 468's
Beyer TG58 (newer version of the Opus 88 more rugged and easy to mount)
Shure 98's
Sennheiser 904's, 421's, 604's.

That being said, I've used all sorts of things on toms at a pinch, including U87's, 414's, KM84's..............
Old 8th June 2015
  #55
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
I have had great success using C414s, and KM140s on toms.

Kind of the go to mics for toms in the studio.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland View Post
Me too, however, as you point out it's difficult to mount them, particularly these days as everyone tends to mount cymbals a lot closer.

My fav's in no particular order:

EV 468's
Beyer TG58 (newer version of the Opus 88 more rugged and easy to mount)
Shure 98's
Sennheiser 904's, 421's, 604's.

That being said, I've used all sorts of things on toms at a pinch, including U87's, 414's, KM84's..............
Old 8th June 2015
  #56
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tourtelot's Avatar
No mention of the venerable Sennheiser 421? Wow!

D.
Old 9th June 2015
  #57
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hbphotoav's Avatar
 

Sweetest tom mics I've used in a location recording/PA gig are my TLM193s (one between the two top rack toms, one on the floor tom). Cymbal bleed was not insubstantial, but very sweet. Of course, the kit was tuned up like a fine fiddle and the jazz drummer had great hands... That said, my "usual suspects" are three tiny little old AKG C408s. They always sound really nice (the tuning of the kit notwithstanding), and they're never in the way.

HB
Old 9th June 2015
  #58
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Remoteness's Avatar
The MD421 has been mentioned in this thread over 30 times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
No mention of the venerable Sennheiser 421? Wow!

D.
Old 10th June 2015
  #59
KEL
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Thread revival after like 9 years?
Old 10th June 2015
  #60
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Remoteness's Avatar
So what? Reviving a thread is much more logical than starting a new thread about the same subject, especially when new vigor can be brought to it.

Searching GS first is always your best bet.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KEL View Post
Thread revival after like 9 years?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
Zombie thread comes back from the dead! Hear the tom-toms beating their spooky tattoo.
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