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Live8
Old 3rd July 2005
  #91
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Vari-Mu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kats

Capitalism ... just and moral. My God, it sounds like your talking about a religion. Capitalism is nothing more than an economic system for trading goods and services.

Capitlism is NOT just and moral and it's exesses must be curved by rules and regulation. For EG: Monopoly is the end game of uncontrolled capitalism, ergo we have laws against this.

Never forget that capitalism DOES NOT = Democracy. They are two different beasts entirely. And if your really serious about the subject, you will do some research to find that Capitalism thrives it's best under dictatorships.

Oh yeah PINK FLOYD kicked!
I am totally inagreement with this post.

Ideologies of ALL SORTS end up with people getting killed , one way or another, when they are followed blindly. I think the proper humanist approach is to be sceptical of all of them.

I absolutely distrust utopians of ALL stripes.

History seems to me to support this view.

Best

Vari-Mu
Old 3rd July 2005
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruudman
Actually, if you're talking about
the "Millennium Development Goal", the world target is set to 0.7% of GNP.
Denmark, Sweden, Norway, The Netherlands and Luxembourg have reached this
target, Ireland coming up around 2007.

ruudman

Thought it was 3, sorry
Old 3rd July 2005
  #93
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hmmm. I've read that Disney has also about 10-13 billion dollars in outstanding debt. They're gonna have to sell lots of tickets to Disney World and Mickey Mouse t-shirts to pay that off.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #94
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Disneyland, a 3rd world country...

ruudman
Old 3rd July 2005
  #95
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The US just doesnt fork over cash, the US also sends over people and supplies (Like with the Tsunami) and that isn't cheap.

I'll bet by next summer Pink Floyd is doing a football stadium tour and charging $200 a ticket. And in all honesty, if thats what they are worth, then thats what they deserve if people are willing to pay. It'll be good for them, it'll help them pay their TAXES in the UK. One of the other major reasons why celebs in the UK (Like Ozzy) seek shelter in the US.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #96
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my only concern today, that i have just now discovered is the similarity
between a few words:

hate bush - i do.

kate bush - i love her, especially the first five records.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #97
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And for the people who hate Bush, thats fine with me. We just had an election and you had a chance to vote your guy in despite what side of the fence you are on.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorkyTart
And for the people who hate Bush, thats fine with me. We just had an election and you had a chance to vote your guy in despite what side of the fence you are on.
believe me, we tried. ignorance won out. now that people are catching on (QUICKLY sinking approval ratings, etc) it is too late. not that it's all bush's fault. he just knows and does what his people tell him (before hopping into bed by 9)

back on topic: gilmore just killed on comfortably numb. killed.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #99
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianroth
Yeah, whazzizname, the GD singer, is NOT Freddy Mercury!! I was running for cover during that song today....

Bri

Yes, bad. Really bad. And I happened to catch a bit of Bon Jovi. Wow have they become lamesville.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vari-Mu
Floyd were fantastic except for Roger Waters singing. I too am hoping for a tour....
Oh my, I thought it a highlight. Sure he is a bit rusty, and it wasn't autotuned, but his biggest problem was singing through 20 some years of pent-up emotion. Truly from the heart. Which is what a good vocal performance is all about.

And did you notice Dave winking at Nick while Roger was singing?

History in the making!

Old 3rd July 2005
  #101
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorkyTart
The US just doesnt fork over cash, the US also sends over people and supplies (Like with the Tsunami) and that isn't cheap.

I'll bet by next summer Pink Floyd is doing a football stadium tour and charging $200 a ticket. And in all honesty, if thats what they are worth, then thats what they deserve if people are willing to pay. It'll be good for them, it'll help them pay their TAXES in the UK. One of the other major reasons why celebs in the UK (Like Ozzy) seek shelter in the US.
And David Gilmour is one of the most generous (donations) celebrities around.



__________

Huge file to download of the complete Pink Floyd set.

http://yee.is-useless.org/Live%208%2...0(webcast).wmv
Old 3rd July 2005
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kats
Ruphus, the current system that you are bashing is not true Capitalism. Perhaps your better off the bash the leaches that abuse true capitalists. Paper traders, speculators etc.

Communism? Forget it. The only person I'd trust to create a society where everyone is in lala land is Walt Disney - but he's dead.






Capitalism ... just and moral. My God, it sounds like your talking about a religion. Capitalism is nothing more than an economic system for trading goods and services.

Capitlism is NOT just and moral and it's exesses must be curved by rules and regulation. For EG: Monopoly is the end game of uncontrolled capitalism, ergo we have laws against this.

Never forget that capitalism DOES NOT = Democracy. They are two different beasts entirely. And if your really serious about the subject, you will do some research to find that Capitalism thrives it's best under dictatorships.

Oh yeah PINK FLOYD kicked!
Thank you, I was beginning to wonder exactly where this thread was going......Pink Floyd was amazing, damn I miss them. And the Who...what can I say.

My surprise...why Toronto instead of Barrie? for the host up here. Would have got way more people out. And the first act I managed to catch was Jet. Someone forgot to hook up the autotune. Man that was sad.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #103
Deleted bd1be4f
Guest
Yep, overall the consensus seems that the old guard (Floyd, Who, Macca, etc.) put the new generation to shame. It was almost laughable after hearing the Floyd set, they broadcast part of Simple Plan or Good Charlotte (I forget which one, they're interchangeable), and it was like an insult to my ears after having been spoiled by Floyd.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #104
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Thats awesome that Gilmore is generous with his donations, I respect anyone who does that regardless of their politcal stance they are doing a good thing. Hats off to Dave.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #105
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Eligit, if you say ignorance won that actually translates to lazyness on the part of the Dems. If you dont vote dont bitch.
Old 3rd July 2005
  #106
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Ruudman's Avatar
 

Was it just me, or was there a HUGE difference in
soulful performance between Pink Floyd and Motley Crue?

Wish You Were Here vs. Home Sweet Home?




ruudman
Old 4th July 2005
  #107
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

Tidbits:

Geldof decided to do Dont Like Mondays 10 minutes before they went on stage. Several key people needed restraining and/or resusitating on hearing this 'news' especially as the whole thing was laughably over time, and the whole snapshot and setup for the what was to be the next band was all ready to go.

26 bands = 26 trucks of equipment. The crew were 5 bands ahead of themselves at all times. A revolving stage which slid out of view meant that different groups of people were able to check levels one behind back stage while two different trucks flip flopped between bands. Logistically, getting 26 trucks of gear on and off stage within 10 hours means many tons of gear was simply shifted.

There were roughly 20 sound guys and 20 roadies.

2 weeks ago, 13 bands were proposed and planned for. By the big day, there were 26. Factoring in just 2 minutes contigency for each band meant that even if each band ONLY went over by twominutes... they would be 56 minutes over.

Snoop Doggy Dog had the scariest minders anyone has ever seen, but his entire entourage were some of the best behaved of the lot.

By the end, none of the performers were doing as they were told and the whole thing was a kind of engineering free for all. So they just made sure that Sir Paul was happy and went from there.
Old 4th July 2005
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorkyTart
Eligit, if you say ignorance won that actually translates to lazyness on the part of the Dems. If you dont vote dont bitch.
oh, i voted alright. so i bitch. and yes the dems really could have been more ontop of ****. but they were too scared of looking "unpatriotic".

shame on them as well.
Old 4th July 2005
  #109
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This thread reminds me of "Head Over Heels" by Tears for Fears.....2 different sets of lyrics superimposed.

Andy
Old 4th July 2005
  #110
Gear Maniac
 
Vari-Mu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorkyTart
The US just doesnt fork over cash, the US also sends over people and supplies (Like with the Tsunami) and that isn't cheap.
That is included in the global figure for government aid spending.

There is also a significant private component to US aid to the developing world ,which is excluded from the official figures, but no credible source suggests that that makes up the difference.

Cheers

Vari-Mu
Old 4th July 2005
  #111
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorkyTart
The USA pays between 20-25% of the UN'S annual funds.

Speaking of the UN. I think the most ironic part of todays Live 8 events is Kofi A standing up there talking about starving people in Africa yet he completely ass raped the Iraqi people with the UN oil for Food Program.

Some people hate Bush, some people hate Clinton, but there is absolutely no way in Hell, that anyone can deny that the US is by far the most generous nation regardless of who is in office.

If you don't like the USA, go buy a bunch of Behringer gear...
as much as I would like this to be true, it isn't. By FAR.
please check your information. you do more damage than good this way.
I am not referring to the american people (private initiative), but to the present government in the US.

anyway, i think it is good that these things are organised, to help people. And it was nice to watch.
Old 4th July 2005
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great
Oh my, I thought it a highlight. Sure he is a bit rusty, and it wasn't autotuned, but his biggest problem was singing through 20 some years of pent-up emotion. Truly from the heart. Which is what a good vocal performance is all about.

And did you notice Dave winking at Nick while Roger was singing?

History in the making!

On reflection , I kind of agree with you....

I had that reaction at the time because apart from his singing, they were REALLY tight and on top of things musically and as a result his pitching problems stood out ....but it really didn't matter that much.

I thought the whole reconciliation angle was really touching.

Best

Vari-Mu
Old 4th July 2005
  #113
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vari-Mu
On reflection , I kind of agree with you....

I had that reaction at the time because apart from his singing, they were REALLY tight and on top of things i musically and as a result his pitching problems stood out ....but it really didn't matter that much.

I thought the whole reconciliation angle was really touching.

Best

Vari-Mu

You'll also notice for the second verse Roger really tightened up. I like how real it all was.
Old 4th July 2005
  #114
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Quote:
overall the consensus seems that the old guard (Floyd, Who, Macca, etc.) put the new generation to shame
YEah, for the most part. But boy did it pain me to watch Deep Purple. Sad to see Gillan sing so poorly...although as they went on he got it together, he sang Hush pretty good.

Steve Morse didn't do it for me either...the speed ball soloing lacked any soul, great circus tricks, but it doesn't work with DP tutt
Old 4th July 2005
  #115
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kats
Capitalism ... just and moral. My God, it sounds like your talking about a religion. Capitalism is nothing more than an economic system for trading goods and services.
All economic systems are simply philosophies that have to be judged on their morality. This is actually very common and if you did some research you would find this to be true. But to do this, you have to be willing to think about human impact by looking beyond the system and to the consequenses. For example, under socialism a ruling class of intellectuals, bureaucrats and social planners decide what people want or what is good for society and then use the coercive power of the State to regulate, tax, and redistribute the wealth of those who work for a living. In other words, socialism is a form of legalized theft, which is immoral.

A system that sacrifices the self to "society" is a system of slavery—and a system that sacrifices thinking to coercion is a system of brutality. This is the essence of any anti-capitalist system, whether communist or fascist. And "mixed" systems, such as today's regulatory and welfare state, merely unleash the same evils on a smaller scale.

Only capitalism renounces these evils entirely. Only capitalism is fully true to the moral ideal stated in the Declaration of Independence: the individual's right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Only capitalism protects the individual's freedom of thought and his right to his own life.

Quote:
Capitlism is NOT just and moral and it's exesses must be curved by rules and regulation. For EG: Monopoly is the end game of uncontrolled capitalism, ergo we have laws against this.
This statement presumes that all monopolies are bad. In fact that is not the case. Monopolies are not intrinsically evil (big is not inherently evil), nor are monopolies subjectively evil (good or evil judged by public vote, or polls); monopolies are good or evil depending on how they are formed. If formed according to the laws of the free market -- capitalism -- they are objectively good. If formed through irrational political policies they are objectively evil.

The sole source of harmful monopolies is the government, which is the only agency that has the power to physically force competitors out of business, i.e., it is the only agency that has the power to outlaw (i.e., regulate) competition. As evidence, witness the United States Post Office, which makes it illegal for anyone to charge less than 34¢ for first class mail (one entrepreneur attempted to compete by charging 5¢ -- he did not get far). Other examples include the East India Company of the 17th and 18th centuries, the American Pacific Railroads of the 19th century, and the AMA's monopoly over the prescription of medicine in the 20th century.

Only the government can physically force its competitors out of markets, or establish harmful monopolies through the granting of state "franchises". This is, of course, a clear violation of individual rights, since such state "franchises" prevent those who do not have "political pull" to enter the state regulated industry. In essence the "state franchise" is an insurmountable barrier to entry--and entry created by the the men in government. No businessmen (or government) can do this under capitalism -- only is such a feat possible in a mixed economy, or "totalitarian economy".

Quote:
Never forget that capitalism DOES NOT = Democracy. They are two different beasts entirely. And if your really serious about the subject, you will do some research to find that Capitalism thrives it's best under dictatorships.
I agree it does not, but that is besides the point. The reality (and again perhaps you should do some research yourself) is that Democracy and capitalism suffer from opposite image problems. Capitalism is much better than its image and Democracy has turned out to be much worse (note: I am not not anti-democracy. I take my freedoms very seriously, just bear with me here).

Although capitalism is generally given credit, even by its detractors, for generating wealth and stimulating economic growth, it is commonly maligned for its seeming celebration of greed. But actually, capitalism tends to reward business behavior that is honest, fair, civil, and compassionate. And it inspires a form of risk-taking behavior that can often be characterized as heroic.

Meanwhile, democracy is often presented in an idealized manner: citizens participating on an equal basis in enlightened deliberations about the affairs of governance. By contrast, actual democracy is often found to be disappointingly wanting--notable chiefly for discord, inequality, apathy, hasty compromise, political and policy ignorance, and manipulative scrambling by "special interests."

These disconnections can have significant, and often detrimental, consequences. The mismatch of capitalism with its image can damage economic growth, particularly if people in business embrace the negative stereotype. The democracy mismatch can eventually result in cynicism about the democratic process--even to the point of inspiring a yearning to scrap the system entirely.

Quote:
Oh yeah PINK FLOYD kicked!
On this we see eye to eye.
Old 4th July 2005
  #116
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

Too weird what contradictions can be brooded putting the world in sort of an antimatter state trying to justify the human scorn.

Quote:
socialism is a form of legalized theft, which is immoral.
Interesting that you have seen socialism happening for your will.
But while the idea of socialism has been founded on behalf of exactly the opposite of stealing from people, capitalism is there for out of all precisely that.
The very first instance of capitalism and the heart of the matter from which all the evil spreads is surplus value.
The method to take from working mans output and return to him only a fraction.
So, socialism is supposed to be theft, but capitalism is what? "Honest, fair, civil, and compassionate"? You must be seriously kidding.

Quote:
But actually, capitalism tends to reward business behavior that is honest, fair, civil, and compassionate.
Do you make a handstand while you watch the world or how are you doing it?
Truth is that capitalism rewards cheat, lies, manipulation, usury and contempt of humanitarian concerns.
What do you believe made that Live8 concert being organized? Who do you think send out agents to remove or kill leaders whenever merely potentially true trials for democracy were to spring up anywhere in the past? Who do you think generated and supported US-friendly dictatorships worldwide?
"Honest, fair, civil, and compassionate" forces I suppose.

Quote:
Meanwhile, democracy is often presented in an idealized manner: citizens participating on an equal basis in enlightened deliberations about the affairs of governance. By contrast, actual democracy is often found to be disappointingly wanting--notable chiefly for discord, inequality, apathy, hasty compromise, political and policy ignorance, and manipulative scrambling by "special interests."
That is why it is no democracy. Democracy would be a societal form where people were equally enabled to express and enforce their interests. And even more where they were provided true information and coherences in educational systems and media news, so that their democratic options made human sense in the first place.

But as long as you stick to taking things for what they are labelled you will never have a chance to understand what the label or the practise is about, and will be believing just the nonesense expressed.

Quote:
The mismatch of capitalism with its image can damage economic growth, particularly if people in business embrace the negative stereotype.
It should be making much more sense to start considering how menkind could come to a fair living instead of wondering why capitalists were practising capitalism. But a state like yours leaves no doubt about that there is no interest in a fair living for all to boot with.

Ruphus
Old 4th July 2005
  #117
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Todd your comparing socialism in a non democratic state to capitasim in it's ideal state under a democratic system. tutt

Unbridaled Capitalism has always lead to the erosion of democratic rights. Capitalsim IS NOT self regulatory and unregulated has lead to a form of slave labour - child labor, unsafe work conditions, undue political influence, and the list goes on.

Capitalsm thrives on political stability - and there's nothing stable about democracy when compared to a dictatorship. That's why the Prussian Empire was one of the greatest economies in history with unprecendented growth and wealth - it was also a form of dictatorship. Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy followed the same model to a smaller degree with great success.

If Capitalism is moral, why did not the working conditions of the people improve during the industrial revolution until the government stepped in and regulated?

Now here we go again for the last 25 years of deregualtion what have we got? 200 companies sales represent 28% of the worlds GDP, YET they only employ 0.75% of the worlds work force?

This is not what capitalsm in it's envisioned form should be should it? My point is that we should not get stuck on ideologies as gospel. We have to be flexable. And that is capitalsm has good merit as long as it's excesses are controlled. If we do not come to terms with this soon, we will see a backlash towards protectionsim. It's happened before and it will happen again. As a society we should be more practical and less philosophical about these matters.
Old 4th July 2005
  #118
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rmx16's Avatar
 

Bev

I worked the show in Philly (36 hr's straight) and must say that the production end of it went on without a hitch. Kodo's to Clair bros and Effanel for having their **** together.

Peace
Rob
Old 5th July 2005
  #119
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

Good to hear
Shame this board is turning into a political discussion forum
Please can we get the gear 1st, the music 2nd and the politics 3rd?
I can't believe I'm saying that, you know how much I like talking about all kinds of stuff
But please, the scratched records around here aren't really contibuting any more to the general direction
Slightly jaded
Bev
Old 5th July 2005
  #120
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I agree, but I think this is what sums up Live 8 the best:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050704/..._live_sales_dc
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