The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Jazz Snare -- what mic?? Condenser Microphones
Old 7th March 2005
  #1
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Jazz Snare -- what mic??

I've been playing jazz for many, many years. Been recording it for many, but far less. I always use a 57 going into Millennia. But in jazz the snare is equally important but entirely different than in pop, R&B and R&R. Much more subtle and varied timbres. Not as much slamming on backbeats, although in a different way there can be a lot of that going on too! Second line stuff, etc.. But mainly subtle snare work from brushes to lively swinging bop. Any other preferences for jazz snares in terms of mics out there?
Old 7th March 2005
  #2
Lives for gear
 

For jazz projects I usually use a 451 on top and and 57 on the bottom.
Old 7th March 2005
  #3
Lives for gear
 
loudist's Avatar
 

Try a KM-84 either miking the shell or pointing at the center of the batter head, or 3 mic setup with no close miking, but do compress tastefully.


Unless you are a Belgian Hack, then nothing will help.
Old 7th March 2005
  #4
Lives for gear
 
elswhrco's Avatar
 

Getting the overheads right when recording a jazz kit is probably the most important thing. If you get that sussed, you can probably get away without any spot mic's, bar one for the kick drum.

If you need to use a snare spot, I've found that a AKG 414 ULS can be pretty good for jazz.

Douglas.
Old 7th March 2005
  #5
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
i second a clean mic (not a 57) just off the shell, or 3 nice mics on the kit

i've used an SM7 (flat) with a Vin 473 (bright and snappy with some transformer low end)
Old 7th March 2005
  #6
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
OK. Clean mic miking the shell. What, 2-3 inches or so out?

I have successfully done the three mic thing and I like it. But I tend to favor having close mics to give me the option of bringing up the toms, etc, when needed. The sound being the overall overheads and detail, when needed from close mics. I definitely prefer having control over the snare sound and placement.
Old 7th March 2005
  #7
Gear Nut
 
toque-eh!'s Avatar
 

neumann TLM-170
Old 7th March 2005
  #8
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett
OK. Clean mic miking the shell. What, 2-3 inches or so out?

I have successfully done the three mic thing and I like it. But I tend to favor having close mics to give me the option of bringing up the toms, etc, when needed. The sound being the overall overheads and detail, when needed from close mics. I definitely prefer having control over the snare sound and placement.
I agree.

We used Josephson C42s as OH, yet parallel with the front of the rack tom pointing almost as much in as down ... and a Korby 67 2' off the kick, with the SM7 4-5" off the snare under the hats.

Not TOO close, and play with the 'tip' of the mic, or just move it up/down.

Have fun ... drums like this are beautiful!
Old 8th March 2005
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett
I've been playing jazz for many, many years. Been recording it for many, but far less. I always use a 57 going into Millennia. But in jazz the snare is equally important but entirely different than in pop, R&B and R&R. Much more subtle and varied timbres. Not as much slamming on backbeats, although in a different way there can be a lot of that going on too! Second line stuff, etc.. But mainly subtle snare work from brushes to lively swinging bop. Any other preferences for jazz snares in terms of mics out there?
It is mainly about the overheads, but a beyer 201 works great
Old 8th March 2005
  #10
Lives for gear
 
brendondp's Avatar
 

Or, similar to a Beyer 201, a Revox M3500.

I picked mine up on ebay and have been really really happy. No more 57s for me.

I absolutely prefer to get most of my kit sound from the OHs and room mics, but I've found that the Revox lets me sneak the snare up in the mix with a minmum (and sometimes complete absence) of EQ or compression. Simply put, it gives the snare presence without needing a lot of fixing in the mix.

Depending on the snare and the drummer, sometimes on the shell (near the vent at 45 degrees, anywhere between 2" - 6"), sometimes on the top (from a height of about 5", looking at the place the stick hits - not the middle, and positioned for maximum hi-hat rejection). I'm not a fan of miking the bottom, but I'm open to conversion.

Good luck,

bdp
Old 8th March 2005
  #11
Gear maniac
 

This setup was used on a prog-rock band, but it also works well w/ jazz....



the 57/C-12A combo worked nice, but overhead selection is the KEY!
I'm glad to see someone doing Jazz out there, I would love to pick-up some jazz gigs. It's by far my favorite genre to listen to!
Old 8th March 2005
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett
I've been playing jazz for many, many years. Been recording it for many, but far less. I always use a 57 going into Millennia. But in jazz the snare is equally important but entirely different than in pop, R&B and R&R. Much more subtle and varied timbres. Not as much slamming on backbeats, although in a different way there can be a lot of that going on too! Second line stuff, etc.. But mainly subtle snare work from brushes to lively swinging bop. Any other preferences for jazz snares in terms of mics out there?
Henry,

No one's mentioned it yet, but I think an AT 4033 is a terrific jazz snare mic.

It's my first choice, I usually keep it overhead, or, if just playing with brushes, I'll bring it in closer.

Ed
Old 8th March 2005
  #13
Dot
Lives for gear
 
Dot's Avatar
TLM-103 is a great snare mic.

We used a Studio Projects C1 through Millennia HV-3 on snare on the Jazzooo CD.

<img src="http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/images/snare-hat1.jpg">
Old 8th March 2005
  #14
Lives for gear
 

After trying LOTS of different mics, I keep coming back to the AT 4050 in cardioid for jazz stuff. Nice sensitivity and clear top end without being brittle. It really represents the sound of the drum nicely at a variety of dynamic levels and as such, works VERY well for brush playing. The AT8471 clips also allow for a little more positioning flexibility than the shockmounts.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
Old 8th March 2005
  #15
TER
Gear maniac
 
TER's Avatar
Brush sounds (to my ear) require lots of clean, smooth top end. I have had no luck with a Beyer 201, or any "tailored response" microphone on this kind of session. Any kind of midrange bump makes things ugly quickly. Overheads are critical...and I love an AT4051 xy pair overhead, and then as clear a condenser as you've got on the snare just peeking over the rim for more snap (right off the metal) or a little higher for more body. A KSM32 can work, Earthworks mics can be killer for this, Shure KSM141, or even the dynamic Audix D3 (very smooth and even, but needs some gain) can work. I haven't tried my TLM170, 4033 or 4050 on brushed snare, but can see how they would all do well to get the sound I like...more hi-fi than vintage, for sure. For the vintage thing AT4047 and KSM32 overheads have worked well for me, omni room mics (TC30K), plus a kick mic (lately been loving the Beyer TGX50 over all others) and a clear dynamic on snare if needed (D3, 441, that kind of thing).

-tom
Old 8th March 2005
  #16
Gear nut
 
LittleDogAudio's Avatar
 

My favorite jazz snare mic is the AKG 451 with a -10 db pad. It captures the subtleties of the brushes (rolls and drags).

If I need a bit more body, I'll add a Beyer M88 next to the 451.

Chris
Old 8th March 2005
  #17
Gear maniac
 
kennyd03's Avatar
 

For brushes I use a 451 on top and an SM57 on the bottom. If it's a non-brush jazz track, I use 57s on the top and the bottom.

-KD03
Old 10th March 2005
  #18
Lives for gear
 

I generally don't use a mic on the snare...

When I mic jazz drums, I set the mics in such a way that I don't need it- either a mid side overhead mic with the mid aiming right down at the snare or a stereo mic out in front of the kit. On occasion, I'll augment these mics with a kick mic, but even then, I try to avoid it...

--Ben
Old 10th March 2005
  #19
Neumann KM88
Old 10th March 2005
  #20
urumita
 
7rojo7's Avatar
 

KM56, I wish somebody would make something similar.
AudioTechnica AE3000 takes a whopping and is fairly flat and responsive. easy to position, good for toms too, gtr and bass cabs, percussion
A 451 or 460 or similar works, put the pad on even for jazz
Old 5th May 2018
  #21
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Resurrecting this old thread for a minute with my same question. Jazz snare. More subtle than banging dynamic like SM57. So much light tone and tapping on the jazz snare. Colors. I think a lot of that might get lost with a 57, no? I don't know. When I get things put together over here, I'll try some of my other condensers, like Octava MK012 or AT 4050. I'm not looking to BUY another mic. Anyone else try a ribbon? Or do some of you think the 57 will pick up enough tone and subtlety?
Old 5th May 2018
  #22
Lives for gear
 

My order of preference depending on what I have left over after miking everything else for the date:

Schoeps, joesphson e22s, THE kr25a, km84, km184, re15, 57.

I rarely use the snare mic when I’ve tracked it though, but sometimes if I need to bring out the brushes or a side stick thing it’s good to have available.
Old 5th May 2018
  #23
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Thanks guys. I also have a couple of CEMC-6 (Peluso small diaphragm condensers). Would also probably be good. I think I'll just have an extra mic to A/B. I have enough tracks. If I need more rejection or the playing suddenly gets real loud, or there's not enough subtlety, I have the other as well! Bottom mic, and two top snares, or one on the side.
Old 5th May 2018
  #24
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 

I've been very pleasantly surprised by the voicing on the JolyMod (JME-K47 center-tapped diaphragm, with a more open head basket) NT1 in my kit. I do several things a year with either just a single "kit" mic (think: "Take Five" session photos) or with a single overhead with a kick mic, and the Joly NT1 has become my favorite "sound" in that situation, and in other perc-pickup. If you have a NT1 or two laying around, it's an immediate and noticeable improvement... the "tizzy-ness" is gone, and it's much more TLM 87-ish. Best $350 I ever spent on a mic (now $399). It might work well in your situation... unless (small) size matters.

HB
Old 5th May 2018
  #25
Two great overheads and a kick mic = done. It's jazz folks.

My favs are transformerless AKG 414's or 460's and the RE-20 below. I've never needed a snare mic for jazz in almost 50 years of recording it.
Old 5th May 2018
  #26
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Two great overheads and a kick mic = done. It's jazz folks.

My favs are transformerless AKG 414's or 460's and the RE-20 below. I've never needed a snare mic for jazz in almost 50 years of recording it.
The standard setup in my studio is the THE free field omnis overhead and an re20 on the bass drum. Sometimes the Schoeps if they aren't being used somewhere else. Mostly jazz here. I'll occasionally use a snare mic. Of course if it isn't a jazz date I'll throw up more spots .
Old 5th May 2018
  #27
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Two great overheads and a kick mic = done. It's jazz folks.

My favs are transformerless AKG 414's or 460's and the RE-20 below. I've never needed a snare mic for jazz in almost 50 years of recording it.
Yeah, I get it. But I like having more control. I don't have to use them, but I like having them. If I was a better engineer I might have more confidence in just three mics.
Old 5th May 2018
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Two great overheads and a kick mic = done. It's jazz folks.

My favs are transformerless AKG 414's or 460's and the RE-20 below. I've never needed a snare mic for jazz in almost 50 years of recording it.
This three mic setup and a 451 if needed
Old 5th May 2018
  #29
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Yeah. I'm using Peluso P-12s for overheads, RE20 kick, 421s on toms. I pick up enough hats with the overheads, but in jazz the hats in cymbals are super crucial, so I still put something on it in case. Octava MK012 or CEMC-6.

A lot of my jazz goes from straight ahead to fusion.
Old 6th May 2018
  #30
A great drummer is the first requirement. The better they are, the less you need to do.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
mwagener / High end
153
jscook777 / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
18
Dzoing / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
15
sm80808 / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
5
bongo / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
9

Forum Jump
Forum Jump