The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Jazz Snare -- what mic?? Condenser Microphones
Old 2 weeks ago
  #31
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
A great drummer is the first requirement. The better they are, the less you need to do.
True. Sure. But I pretty much only have great drummers!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #32
Lives for gear
 
zvukofor's Avatar
If i need close snare besides what i can get of OH/front stereo - it is Schoeps or KM84 or something like that. "Right knee" is a good position versus using just close snare mic, and again - Schoeps, or any clean SDC at hand. Omni like Earthworks works perfect too, but can capture too much detail, sometimes it is not what needed for the sound.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #33
RPC
Gear Addict
 

If you're liking the SM57 sound but think it's just a bit too wild, try hanging a 1kohm resistor across the output. (You can solder it into a barrel connector.) That smooths out the top end noticeably. (And very easy to perform the experiment!)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #34
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPC View Post
If you're liking the SM57 sound but think it's just a bit too wild, try hanging a 1kohm resistor across the output. (You can solder it into a barrel connector.) That smooths out the top end noticeably. (And very easy to perform the experiment!)
Or just use an re15
Old 2 weeks ago
  #35
Lives for gear
 
grrrayson's Avatar
 

Firstly, the term "jazz" can mean very different things to different people.

Secondly, the main difference in the sound between "jazz drums" and "rock drums" is how they're played.

Honestly, there isn't necessarily anything fundamentally different between recording jazz drums and recording rock drums. The main difference will come from the player.

Start with using the same mic setup you'd use for drums with any other style. Then, figure out what you want to be different.

Respectfully, it sounds to me like you're looking for a solution for a problem you don't have.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #36
For jazz snare, I am a KMS105 kind of guy.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #37
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobAnderson View Post
For jazz snare, I am a KMS105 kind of guy.
This ^^^... and a X/Y pair of 105s is a sweet, very coherent overhead setup.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #38
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by grrrayson View Post
Firstly, the term "jazz" can mean very different things to different people.

Secondly, the main difference in the sound between "jazz drums" and "rock drums" is how they're played.

Honestly, there isn't necessarily anything fundamentally different between recording jazz drums and recording rock drums. The main difference will come from the player.

Start with using the same mic setup you'd use for drums with any other style. Then, figure out what you want to be different.

Respectfully, it sounds to me like you're looking for a solution for a problem you don't have.
Well since I haven't stated what I'm looking for besides an alternative to an SM57, a less dynamic alternative maybe, you don't know. I wouldn't say I'm trying to solve a problem. I've always used a 57. I don't always use mics on all kits. And I'm WAY more experienced recording and playing jazz, with great players and real pros, than I am R&R.

But there's so much tiny colourful subtleties the great drummer plays. Rarely a slamming backbeat. So it occurred to me the reason the 57 was so ubiquitous was because of R&R and funk where the backbeat slams. That's generally not the function of the snare in jazz.

I know it's all about the player. That's why I want the kit to reflect the player. If I have a player who quietly taps and accents and plays in various locations on the snare for tonal characteristic and has a great sense of dynamics, I'd like to be able to catch all of that.

And jazz is a catch-all phrase for a lot of different styles. I'm talking about all of it: Straight Ahead mostly, but fusion, latin, funky, gospel jazz, chamber.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #39
Lives for gear
 
grrrayson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
I haven't stated what I'm looking for
...that's what I'm saying.

I record a fair amount of jazz, often with really world-class players.

Let me elaborate on some points I've made.

1. The same mics work.

Look at the suggestions people have proposed in this thread: many of them are the same standard mics people use for rock too: 451 taped to a 57, Beyerdynamic 201. Nothing new here.

A 57 will generally pick up ghost notes, light taps, and brush work just fine. Are you telling us you can't hear them when you use a 57? George Massenburg uses a 57.

My go-to is getting the overheads right (I tend to like an old 414 ULS pair that I have) with a 201 on the snare; I also have a 57 with an upgraded TAB transformer that I like a lot on snare even though it feels like a guilty pleasure. (I almost never use a 57 otherwise, because it's rare that I want that midrangey, nasally frequency response. I do really love a 57 with a good pop filter on certain voices live, though—much better than a 58.) I have a bunch of other fancy mics I might try too but whatever, it doesn't really matter.

There are lots of reasons a 57 became a standard. That it brings out the midrange works for brushwork as well as it does for loud single hits (maybe even better).

2. This is about the playing, not the genre.

What about all the people who suggested condensor mics they would use for rock? If a drummer is doing some delicate brush work, he's not going to be bashing on open sloshy high-hats. So the bleed won't be an issue because it'll be light and balanced. That's why you can get away with a condensor there, not because it's "jazz" as opposed to rock. This happens a lot in folk/Americana music too. You can bring out the "bacon and eggs" easily with any mic as long as the rest of the kit is played in a balanced way.

§

So if you simply want something that's not a 57, you already have tons of suggestions.

But the way to actually figure out what direction to go is to decide where you want to go first, not just to decide where you don't want to be.

More round tone with more bleed rejection/focus? 201 or 441.
Even more detail at the expense of bleed? Any condensor.
Even more beef? Try an RE20 or Beyer M88.
Ribbons will tend to be more dark and retro, not what I feel you're looking for.

As with anything else: decide the frequency response, polar pattern, and level of detail you need (perhaps with your tolerance for noise) and choose your mic accordingly.

Please update us with what you find to be more to your tastes.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #40
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Why is this so complicated? I started this thread years ago. I've had plenty of suggestions. I'm not looking for new information. I'm not a newbie. I record almost exclusively jazz. I'm a professional musician who has played with many famous jazz musicians and recorded them as well. Great players. I'm just saying. I'm not a kid here. I was merely thinking out loud.

As I've said, I almost always have used a 57. I can hear the ghost notes. But I'm wondering if I'm losing some tonality. A 57 to me sounds a little dead. That's me. I didn't start this to argue. I see a lot of this on GS. Maybe because most here are young or inexperienced kids trying to gain a foothold. I don't know. I have a pretty good mic locker. I'm not buying anything else. I have more than enough. I was thinking out loud regarding what other's use who record a lot of jazz and observations about the jazz snare that I've pointed out.

Of COURSE it's more the player than the genre. But it's also the genre. That was in response to someone who said that there are a lot of styles in jazz. That it might mean different things to different people. If I'm recording a funky grooving jazz group, and the drummer is slamming I'm going to reach for my 57. But if it's a quiet chamber trio, even if it's the same drummer, but who's really good, I might reach for my CEMC-6.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #41
Lives for gear
 
grrrayson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
I started this thread years ago.
What have you tried since then? What has worked? What did you like? What did you not like?
Old 1 week ago
  #42
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by grrrayson View Post
What have you tried since then? What has worked? What did you like? What did you not like?
Basically I've been using the same old 57. But that's for live work. I'm putting a home studio together where I'll have a dedicated room, mic set up and kit, if the player wants to use it. I've used the Octava MK012 and Peluso CEM06. Nice. But I'm just "gearing" up again, so to speak.
Old 6 days ago
  #43
Lives for gear
 
grrrayson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Basically I've been using the same old 57. But that's for live work. I'm putting a home studio together where I'll have a dedicated room, mic set up and kit, if the player wants to use it. I've used the Octava MK012 and Peluso CEM06. Nice. But I'm just "gearing" up again, so to speak.
Ah—I thought you already had a studio situation set up at your place from your old posts.

I'm curious to hear what you end up digging when you get to it. Cheers!
Old 6 days ago
  #44
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by grrrayson View Post
Ah—I thought you already had a studio situation set up at your place from your old posts.

I'm curious to hear what you end up digging when you get to it. Cheers!
I did. Probably did when i started this thread! And I’m building again! Lol. I’ll let you know! Thanks.
Old 6 days ago
  #45
Lives for gear
 
grrrayson's Avatar
 

P.S. A colleague the other day was telling me he loves the Shure KSM137 on snare—for the extra "crack". And he does mostly rock. Maybe condensors are better at both detail and "crack"! Haven't tried it myself yet...
Old 6 days ago
  #46
Gear Maniac
 

I love a gefell um70 / m71 on snare, when i have one spare. More open and detailed, with lots of punch. And with it's shape it's easy to position, which is often a point when miking drums.

But to be honest, i never had a problem when using a sm57... or any other dynamic i had at hand. But then, most of the time i have my overheads low enough to get the detail there and use the snare spot mostly for punch.
It really is a system that must work together, i wouldn't generally say any single mic is perfect for jazz snare.

And since you didn't want to buy new stuff think you'd be best off to just try the mics you have.

Or if you're the adventurous guy, try that one (i haven't yet, but sounds like fun): https://tapeop.com/tutorials/52/sm-57-mod/
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
mwagener / High end
153
jscook777 / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
18
Dzoing / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
15
sm80808 / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
5
bongo / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
9

Forum Jump
Forum Jump