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Good AKG C414 Alternatives? Condenser Microphones
Old 19th September 2007
  #31
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Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick View Post
Just ordered a pair of Lawson L47FET mics instead of 414s or TLM103s and I don't think I'll regret it.

Sometime later I can order tube bodies and then I'll have selectable patterns using the same capsules.
Lawson is a really nice guy and his mics are awesome.

You did the right thing. Very nice choice my man.
Old 19th September 2007
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
Try the Audix SCX-25. You will be shocked at how good it sounds, and it absolutely works for jazz, for piano, for acoustic instruments generally.
I don't know how this mic got lost in the shuffle, or maybe it just got out-marketed, but I really like this mic. Nobody believes me when I talk about it I guess, so it's good to know somebody agrees!

Jim, by the way the Beyer 740 was discontinued and replaced by the 840. There are design differences, capsule differences etc, but the 840 fills out their lineup as a flat response type of mic that just works on everything. Beyer boasts that the 840 has better off axis response and lower self noise. The MC 834 is the cardioid only version of the 740 (834 is still on the market) although still there are differences in electronics etc.

War
Old 19th September 2007
  #33
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Jim vanBergen's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
You could not pay me to use a TLM-103. I honestly believe there is nobody using them who is familiar with the other options out there (snip)

JSL
I totally respect your opinion, but I know Steve Remote and I both swear BY our 103s, not AT them. They are good working tools. Now, I know we both got invested with them very early on, when they were much closer to the sweet sound of a U89 or well tuned U87, and when the price was pretty darn low- I gotta tell you, I prefer mine over a LOT of mics, especially recent vintage 103s or 414s, neither of which I will use, much like a 421 v2!
My TLM103s are very low SN#'s, they sound really good, and have been used on a lot of recordings. Sorry you don't like 'em, but I do.

I totally agree about the Lawsons, I think it's a very under-rated microphone that sounds wonderful. Ditto the Audix, I have 25+ pieces of Audix and the SC25s are a great tool.

Lastly, for many of us who get work by reccomendation and equipment lists, the pieces I have most requested are Schoeps, DPA/B&K, and Neumann. I'm not saying that other pieces don't sound every bit as good, I'm saying client request & perception is a big factor in our work. I have had to convince many clients that product X is equal to or better than Y, but I have to do it in a blind test of both products.

YMMV, just wanted to share my $0.02.

JvB
Old 20th September 2007
  #34
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
You could not pay me to use a TLM-103. I honestly believe there is nobody using them who is familiar with the other options out there (snip)

JSL
I want to pay you one miiiiiiiilliiiiiion dollars cash money to use a TLM103 on my session...

Oh never mind, I'll do it for free and keep my bread in my boot. heh

All kidding aside, I hear you, this is Gearslutz and everyone that's anybody hates TLM103s.
It's just how it is and I understand that dynamic, but I do not agree.
I own over 300 mics and my TLM103s are just one of the colors I like to use.

With that said, I must say -- your website IS the coolest audio related website I've seen in ages.
It's excellent in so many ways. Kudos to you and your associates for putting together an awesome Site!

...Oh and one more thing; thank you for making the Internet interesting and seriously inviting again!
Old 20th September 2007
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
I don't know how this mic got lost in the shuffle, or maybe it just got out-marketed, but I really like this mic. Nobody believes me when I talk about it I guess, so it's good to know somebody agrees!
Yeah, I know! I just bought one on a lark. It was on clearance -- nobody bought them -- I read a good review of it, PAR I think, and it seemed like it would be good on acoustic sounds over a slightly larger area, which was something on my mind at the time. So I just bought it -- and all my engineers adored it, it's great on all kinds of things.

And I've gotten five or six other people to try it, and they all ended up buying it, too. Couple of guys ended up buying a pair to use as their main stereo LDC's. I don't know anyone who has tried this mic and doesn't really like it. Totally under the radar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
I want to pay you one miiiiiiiilliiiiiion dollars cash money to use a TLM103 on my session...
Done! WTF, I am a business man after all.

Quote:
I own over 300 mics and my TLM103s are just one of the colors I like to use.
Well, I have to admit, there probably are only 200 mics I would recommend over the 103, so it's possible it would sneak into my collection if I owned 300 mics.

Quote:
With that said, I must say -- your website IS the coolest audio related website I've seen in ages. It's excellent in so many ways. Kudos to you and your associates for putting together an awesome Site!
Gee, thanks! Here I've been sweating it because it seems outdated to me. We put a lot of work into it, but it was more than five years ago. I really need to put our most recent sound clips up there, too -- our MySpace page is all 2007 stuff, and it's better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen View Post
I totally respect your opinion, but I know Steve Remote and I both swear BY our 103s, not AT them. They are good working tools. Now, I know we both got invested with them very early on
If I suggested that they were unusable, then I was exaggerating. I think they're comparable to an AT4033, which you can get for about one-third the cost. The 103's are a little more detaild and my guess is they're more durable, not to impugn the AT stuff. And for what it's worth, the 103 I owned was also a very early one.

We actually swap 103 horror stories. Seriously.

Quote:
Lastly, for many of us who get work by reccomendation and equipment lists, the pieces I have most requested are Schoeps, DPA/B&K, and Neumann. I'm not saying that other pieces don't sound every bit as good, I'm saying client request & perception is a big factor in our work. I have had to convince many clients that product X is equal to or better than Y, but I have to do it in a blind test of both products.
I am intrigued by this. I've found that in terms of getting work, the more I focus on the approach, the service and expertise we provide, the more work we get. As a result, we've slowly divested of all the pieces that we were only keeping around for "cred," not because we liked them. The exception to this is Pro Tools, which can be a deal-breaker, but that's because of interoperability, not quality.

(Exactly one time a guy got upset with me when I told him Waves plug-ins were overrated -- that one time, the guy turned out to be one of those Waves moles their lawyers send around.)

I take it for granted that there are parts of the business where a (potential) client is going to insist on a certain piece of gear, but I'm not familiar with it. And I have to be honest, I have no respect for it. I have been known in fact to start listing all the "standard" stuff that we've gotten rid of, just to prove the point, which is: We have the stuff we want. I refuse to compete on the basis of gear lists, because you can't compete that way. Some other guy can always buy more gear, and we simply don't feel that gear is the most important thing, or even in the top five.

So those clients are going to hire that other guy, who is also losing money but just doesn't care. And they are going to make a really crappy record together. I've never met a really great artist who cared to substitute his gear judgment for ours, and our priority is to work with the very best artists possible.

JSL
Old 20th September 2007
  #36
High Fidelity
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
I want to pay you one miiiiiiiilliiiiiion dollars cash money to use a TLM103 on my session...

Oh never mind, I'll do it for free and keep my bread in my boot. heh

All kidding aside, I hear you, this is Gearslutz and everyone that's anybody hates TLM103s.
It's just how it is and I understand that dynamic, but I do not agree.
I own over 300 mics and my TLM103s are just one of the colors I like to use.

With that said, I must say -- your website IS the coolest audio related website I've seen in ages.
It's excellent in so many ways. Kudos to you and your associates for putting together an awesome Site!

...Oh and one more thing; thank you for making the Internet interesting and seriously inviting again!
From the photos it seems you would have 2 contact piezos (or equivalent to C-ducers ?) Y-ed into the BSS DI box? High gain before feedback needed for the monitors?

Have you tried to remove the foam and grille from an SM58 capsule, setup the microphone at fixed point and glue the membrane center as a contact microphone directly on the soundboard?
Old 20th September 2007
  #37
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Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Fidelity View Post
From the photos it seems you would have 2 contact piezos (or equivalent to C-ducers ?) Y-ed into the BSS DI box? High gain before feedback needed for the monitors?

Have you tried to remove the foam and grille from an SM58 capsule, setup the microphone at fixed point and glue the membrane center as a contact microphone directly on the soundboard?
Nah, I wouldn't be experimenting with a SM58 (like that) for a live recording but...
I'd surely track it if I had the extra tracks. heh

Have you done this mod for monitors?

Afrikan Roots handled the live sound system.
The C414s, SM58 and BSS rig weren't setup by us.
Those piano mics were placed by AR and Hornsby's tech.
Duke placed the TLM103s using Rowi clamps.
Old 21st September 2007
  #38
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mrsteaks's Avatar
 

Coincidence strikes again! I just sold my Rode NT2's and bought a 414 XLS. You know what? I hate it! It (IMO) sounds worse than the Rodes (which were actually pretty good, but I thought them to be a touch noisy), and, as was stated earlier, the patterns have lousy control. Why'd I buy it? I had use of an old pair of UL's (or what ever) and liked them - a lot. Didn't do the research!

So - is the Audix SCX25A really that good?
Old 21st September 2007
  #39
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ajfarber's Avatar
 

Did anyone mention the Beyer mc740? It's a multi pattern LDC.

A bit more up-market than the 414 but cheaper than a U87 or U89.

Google Image Result for http://www.jingle.org/mc740.gif
Old 21st September 2007
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick View Post
Just ordered a pair of Lawson L47FET mics instead of 414s or TLM103s and I don't think I'll regret it.

Sometime later I can order tube bodies and then I'll have selectable patterns using the same capsules.
I don't know the L47FET, but the L47 tube mic is one of my favourites. I can use it in any situation that requires a LDC.
Old 21st September 2007
  #41
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RE MC740: Yup, they were mentioned. They've been discontinued, and pricing on used or remaining stock seems to be all over the place. I haven't found much mentioned about their replacements, the MC840. In general, I like Beyer products.

RE Audix SCX-25: I've seen this one in studios, but I've never used it myself. I seem to remember that that fixed carioid pattern is quite wide--not sure if that would work for me for location or all in one room type recording.

Re Lawson: I have limited experience with these mics, having only used their tube L47MPII. It was definitely nice, but it wasn't quite doing what I wanted it to--could have been due to the room--and I don't really want to mess with tubes on location. The FET version might be more flexible.

Mrsteaks: Sorry to hear you had a similar disappointing experience with the XLS as I did. I just couldn't get them working for me so finally got rid of them.

I did consider the AT4050s but opted for the KSM instead as I liked the KSM total package more, and reviews say that the two mics are very similar. I am, however, a big fan of the AT4047 and wouldn't mind having more of them.

As I mentiond a few posts back, I got a piar of KSM44s, which I'm still getting to know. I've been looking into picking up some AKG SDCs as well, maybe the C460 with CK1/CK61 caps. There hasn't been much talk of these on this forum. Anyone have experience with them?
Old 21st September 2007
  #42
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mrsteaks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jungle Jazz View Post
Mrsteaks: Sorry to hear you had a similar disappointing experience with the XLS as I did. I just couldn't get them working for me so finally got rid of them.

As I mentiond a few posts back, I got a piar of KSM44s, which I'm still getting to know. I've been looking into picking up some AKG SDCs as well, maybe the C460 with CK1/CK61 caps. There hasn't been much talk of these on this forum. Anyone have experience with them?
I need to use the XLS more. I was expecting the sound of the ULS, and, well - no.

If you like your KSM44's, and you're looking for SDC's, do listen to the KSM 137 and the KSM 141. They are astoundingly good! I have a pair of 137's, am looking for another - maybe the 141 for a little flexiblity - and I just love them. Plush suggested I hear them, and man, was he ever on the mark.
Old 21st September 2007
  #43
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Yeah, I'm curious about the KSM137 & 141. The reviews are mixed, some really positive, others pretty negative. Without trying myself, it's hard to know. So far, I'm favorably impressed with the KSM44.
Old 21st September 2007
  #44
Gear Addict
Would you like to borrow a pair of KSM-141s? I live in Walnut Creek.

Fran
Old 21st September 2007
  #45
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Thanks for the generous offer. I'm going to send you PM about this.
Old 22nd September 2007
  #46
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Graham Tobias's Avatar
 

I tell everyone that one ksm 32 and a pair of ksm 141's are all you need to make a fantastic recording. The 141's are absolutely amazing, especially for the price. I mean they're not quite KM84s, schoeps, or DPA's but you can switch them from cardioid to omni and they sound great on everything. I've seen the best piano studio in massachusetts use them to close mic their $200,000 steinway. Pair of KSM 32's were the room mics too. Haha and they also had a soundfield mic up. Seriously though, you can get incredible sounds out of those mics. They're worth every penny. I have yet to find something they sound bad on.
Old 23rd September 2007
  #47
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Thanks, Graham. That's exactly the kind of response I've been looking for. I might look around and see if I can find a good deal on a pair of 141s.
Old 23rd September 2007
  #48
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jslevin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jungle Jazz View Post
Thanks, Graham. That's exactly the kind of response I've been looking for. I might look around and see if I can find a good deal on a pair of 141s.
+1 on the KSM-141's -- excellent, tremendous value.

JSL
Old 23rd September 2007
  #49
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mrsteaks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
+1 on the KSM-141's -- excellent, tremendous value.

JSL
Totally, totally agree. The 137's are outstanding, too - and actually, compared to my Schoeps MK2S, they aren't far off - very close, just as quiet, IMO. Not apples and oranges at all.

Minor FYI. Sold the C414 XLS and bought a KSM 44 and the Audix SCX25. The AKG just wasn't standing up as the "versatile" mic. I thought the KSM 44 was quieter, more accurate, and more versatile. My experience with the 137's pointed me towards the Shure LDC. I'm sure (ack!) I'll be happy!

Shure makes a sleeper product with their KSM line, let me tell you. I don't see how anyone could go wrong with these mics.

No, I am NOT a retailer! tutt Ears only!thumbsup
Old 23rd September 2007
  #50
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
If you're dead-set on looking for alternatives, the AT4050 is the obvious first place to look, and for good reason. As detailed as the 414 but with less hype, also not very expensive.
That's exactly my thinking. I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned the AT4050. I actually prefer it, in many cases, to the 414, although, to be honest, I haven't tried all the varieties of 414 . . . But I dig my AT4050s.
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