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Schoeps vs. KM 140 Condenser Microphones
Old 3rd September 2007
  #1
29327
Guest
Talking Schoeps vs. KM 140

So, I'm about to do something I should have done a long time ago: buy a pair of Schoeps. My plan is to buy a pair of CMC 6's with the MK 4g capsules (and add some MK 2's, etc. later...).

Recently, though, it was put into my head that the Neumann KM 140's might be worth a look, due to their similar modular design (and slightly lower cost). My problem is that I've never used the 140's. The 130's sounded killer, but I'm in for a cardioid pair at the moment.

Any suggestions/helpful bits of wisdom from my fellow gearslutz?

Last edited by 29327; 3rd September 2007 at 05:08 PM.. Reason: mising info...
Old 3rd September 2007
  #2
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huub's Avatar
Wellll, for what it's worth; I love the 140's on just about everything..
BUT I have never used schoeps..
Old 3rd September 2007
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Have both and use both... Like any top quality microphone, the both have their plusses and minuses. I generally reach for the Schoeps first, especially when they are the only pair or main pair. That said, the somewhat brighter nature of the KM140 makes certain room sound better.

The Schoeps have a richness to the sound that the Neumanns just don't have. The Neumanns have a top end that is a bit more transient and brighter than the Schoeps.

The best bet would be for you to find a place that has both and rent/demo before you purchase. I prefer the Schoeps if I had only one, but you should make a choice yourself if possible.

--Ben
Old 3rd September 2007
  #4
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Jim vanBergen's Avatar
 

I think the KM140 is a great mic, but not in the same category as Schoeps. Of course, I want to have at least three of EVERYTHING.... so I've got KM140s, KM84s, KM85s, 184s, 185s...and DPAs, and Gefells...and my Schoeps.

For vocals I have my U47Fet, my U57...but IMO, nothing beats Schoeps. You can spend MORE and get something really, really good...but I spent years trying to spend less to find something that is sonically equivalent, just to find that nothing else was quite as good to my ears.

Of course, if you want to buy my three KM84s and compare with the 140s, I'm willing to part with them... but those three are worth the same as a great matched set of CMC6's with MK2s capsules. So if it were MY money to spend, I'd buy the matched pair of Schoeps.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #5
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Given the high cost of the neumann capsule itself, the schoeps are actually cheaper if you are looking for a pair of bodies with a collection of two or three capsule pairs.
Old 4th September 2007
  #6
29327
Guest
klaukholm, thanks for the financial head's up regarding the capsule prices. That's something I hadn't considered...

I do have access to both the CMC6/MK4 and the KM 140 at work, I've just been having a hard time getting a session where I can afford the time to throw up both and A/B them. I guess I've been leaning towards the Schoeps (since I, too, seem to grab them first), but I just wanted some independent confirmation on my plans.

Thanks for all the advice!
Old 4th September 2007
  #7
Gear Nut
 
liuto's Avatar
 

I am always grabbing for the Schoeps first too. I don't know the KM140 though. I own a few KM84/83 that are nice but quite different, and used to own a pair of KM184, which are probably the nearest equivalent to KM140s (that's at least what Neumann continues to say).
Regards
Hermann
Old 5th September 2007
  #8
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
We're recording Francisco Mela Group at the Blue Note (9/4&5/07) and we had a Schoeps (supplied by Larry the group's bassist) along with our KM140...

We have six KM140s and I love them.

With that said, I've come to the conclusion that it is time to buy a few Schoeps and be done with it.

I loved the sound of that mic on upright bass.
The KM140 was okay, but it wasn't a Schoeps.

...Here we go; I thought I was done with buying mics for awhile.

I was wrong!
Old 5th September 2007
  #9
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
We have six KM140s and I love them.

With that said, I've come to the conclusion that it is time to buy a few Schoeps and be done with it.

I loved the sound of that mic on upright bass. The KM140 was okay, but it wasn't a Schoeps.
I have a pair of KM140's and a pair of Schoeps 642's. I've been thinking of getting a pair of cardiod elements for the Schoeps and this thread has me almost convinced.

Thanks folks for the dialog.

Doug
Old 6th September 2007
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Hey Steve,

Which model Schoeps was Larry using on his bass, and where did you put it?
Old 6th September 2007
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fifthcircle View Post
The Schoeps have a richness to the sound that the Neumanns just don't have. The Neumanns have a top end that is a bit more transient and brighter than the Schoeps.
That is exactly how I would describe the difference in these mics.

-Z-
Old 6th September 2007
  #12
Gear Nut
 

Ditto what most have said about the Schoeps. The Schoeps cards do seem to have a richer quality, while the Neuman's seem more "incisive." The Neumans are not harsh by any means but do seem to shine a brighter light with a more distinct shadows, if I may stretch a metaphor a bit. I have KM 184's, 140's, 130's, as well as Schoeps mk 2s's, mk 21's mk 4's and mk 6's. The Schoeps get the most use by a long shot.
Old 6th September 2007
  #13
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jungle Jazz View Post
Hey Steve,

Which model Schoeps was Larry using on his bass, and where did you put it?
I believe Larry had a CMC5 amplifier with a MK4g capsule.

I let him place the mic since he knows his bass and the sound he wanted to capture.

I was surprised he aimed it towards the F hole.

I place our KM140 in between his Schoeps and the fingerboard aiming more towards the fingerboard.

I talked to him about it. He likes that sound. I went with it and it worked for us collectively.
Old 8th September 2007
  #14
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sonare's Avatar
All depends on what you will put in front of them--

that said, I used to own KM-84s (and selling them was the stupidest thing I ever did), KM-140, and KM-184. I noticed that I was reaching for the Neumanns last and the Schoeps and DPAs first. The KM140 is ever so slightly less bright than the 184. Yes, I know what Neumann says.

I tried the "jangling key test" with CMC64/21s and the KM184 and KM140. The Schoeps sounded like keys-- the Neumanns like breaking glass. Now the only Neumanns I own are TLM193.

Rich
Old 8th September 2007
  #15
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Well, the KM84 is a whole other animal.
I like them very much.
Old 3rd October 2007
  #16
29327
Guest
Thumbs up

Well, it's official. The CMC 64 stereo set is on it's way from Jerry at Posthorn. heh

I just gotta feed the addiction...
Old 3rd October 2007
  #17
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Jim vanBergen's Avatar
 

Good for you! Congrats!

Just finished doing another opera recording...I'm thinking about adding to my Schoeps roster.
Old 3rd October 2007
  #18
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Plush's Avatar
Like some others have said, the 140 is a brighter sound than a Schoeps 54/64 cardioid.

A 140 provides greater "reach" into the orchestra/ensemble than Schoeps. It can be used farther away.

Two different mics with the clear edge, in my opinion, to Schoeps.

The modern MBA's at Neumann rip you off on the price of separate capsules.
Also Neumann will not repair their capsules as Schoeps will.
Neumann 140 has a more "transistory" sound.
Old 3rd October 2007
  #19
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Plush, have you used the MK4V (highlift sideadress)?
I am curious about that capsule for some things.
Old 3rd October 2007
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
Royer121's Avatar
Hey there,

watch out for the new Schoeps Microphone Showroom.
Will be available on CD and online...there you can audition almost all schoeps mics.

We also recorded the MK4V and geez it sounded great on vocals...=)

Greets
Ray
Old 3rd October 2007
  #21
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Does it also feature the mk2s/h and 40/50mm ball?

About to get the attachment and unsure if I should go with MK2h/50mm ball or MK2s/40mm ball for orchestral main rig use.
Old 3rd October 2007
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
Royer121's Avatar
The two MK2s and MK2h capsules are included, but I'm afraid no balls

We're already looking for new enhancements of the showroom...perhaps on the next update..

cheers
ray
Old 3rd October 2007
  #23
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
If you want we can do the M222's with mk2h/s and balls if schoeps will send us some caps for demoing.
We will have to demo the caps regardless before we decide which to buy.
Old 3rd October 2007
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaukholm View Post
Plush, have you used the MK4V (highlift sideadress)?
I am curious about that capsule for some things.
And then you wrote:
Quote:
Does it also feature the mk2s/h and 40/50mm ball?
About to get the attachment and unsure if I should go with MK2h/50mm ball or MK2s/40mm ball for orchestral main rig use.
First, The MK4v is really a step up from the MK4. We got rid of all our MK4's when we heard the 4v. (Full disclosure, we have 8 MK5's, which IMNSHO is a better cardiod than the MK4 anyway...) It is much closer to the 2H in tonality. I wouldn't consider buying a new MK4 now a days. There are just better mics in the catalog now.
WRT the balls for the schoeps, I find that the 50mm ball is a little "honky" sounding. I normally go with the 40mm ball, and never on a MK2s. I've always thought that the balls worked more successfully on the KM130's more than the Schoeps.

All the best,
-mark
Old 3rd October 2007
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
Royer121's Avatar
Just contact Schoeps for demoing a capsule via email.
Actually our sound samples were more than just recording, also photographing and such....so I think this will not be working this way.

Whatsoever, you will see, when it will be released..=)
Old 3rd October 2007
  #26
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Plush's Avatar
No, I have not used the 4 V capsules.

Certainly, according to the above, they are worth trying and making the comparison.

However, I have made my reputation with MK4, so they are "good enough" for me.
Old 4th October 2007
  #27
Gear Addict
 
mrsteaks's Avatar
 

Let me know if I gathered this correctly. If not, correct me, please! I have the CMC6/MK2s. The suggestion seems to be for a cardioid cap, go with the 4v, as an "all round" cardioid capsule?
Old 4th October 2007
  #28
Gear Nut
 

I cannot speak for the MK4v, but I'll second Plush on the MK4's.

They are a bit "lite" in the bass, but I have never been sorry that I had them. The MK4's work well as as main or as spot mic's, although lately I seem to be favoring MK21's or KM130's more as a main pair,

I am not sure that I would always want the high-end boost of the V, though it seems to be in a band that is more often pleasant than not. I could also see that the side address could be an advantage in some cases.

It would be interesting to hear a comparison, both as main and spot mic's.
Old 4th October 2007
  #29
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pkautzsch's Avatar
 

I use the MK4 non-V precisely *because* they don't have that high-lift. For high-lift stuff I usually grab the KM184.
Old 25th October 2007
  #30
Here for the gear
 

HI, just tagging along but wanted to chip in. I have and use both the mk4 and the mk4v. I just did a choral session where I ended up wanting an xy set as a spot pair, right in front of the conductor's stand, just to add some definition to the main pair (omnis). I used the straight mk4 caps and they gave me exactly what I wanted to hear. I knew as soon as I heard them that the 4v's would've been a tad too bright.

I also regularly do an orchestra that likes the OCT setup and have actually tracked it with both a 4 and a 4v as the center cardiod (simul). They both sound great and my preference changes depending on the material being played. For a piano concerto, I liked the 4v, but for a Ginastera harp piece, I liked the straight 4. That may seem counter-intuitive but it's what sounded good to me.

I find the 4v's to lean more in the direction of a 4011, there's definitely a sense of more 'air' or presence due to the hf lift. I think you won't go wrong with either one. But one thought (agreeing with Mark Donahue here) is that if you end up budgeting for a 4v, a MK5 is only a tad more and gives you a respectable omni at the flick of a switch. I don't have any of those but I know MD has amazing ears and I'd trust his opinion of the mk5.

Scott
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