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question about splitting.. Condenser Microphones
Old 3rd September 2007
  #1
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Question question about splitting..

Hi!

Is it possible to split the signal coming from a mic pre using a Y-cable, to feed the signal to two different recorders ? Lets say a soundcard and a DAT recorder.
Would it be a bad solution ?

Thanks for your help!

Håvard
Old 3rd September 2007
  #2
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 

The best way is to use a transformer.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #3
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huub's Avatar
going parallel to recorders isn't an awful idea really, usually works fine, depending on the impedance of the source and destinations.. can't explain this, i have no electrical knowledge..
All I know is: works fine most of the time..
Old 3rd September 2007
  #4
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thanks!

A transformer like this? http://www.turnkey.co.uk/web/product...5U&context=WEB
Old 3rd September 2007
  #5
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nathanvacha's Avatar
 

you don't really need a transformer if you're talking about splitting a mic-pre output to two different recorders.

splitting a mic signal to separate pre's is another story, but splitting a line level signal is simple, a y cable or something similar will work fine.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #6
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huub's Avatar
Don't tell anyone, but I was doing the olympics in athens for NBC, and our truck was basically too small for the tasks we were given, and in the end I had to parallel our (16) outputs to transmission (sattelite truck and backup digital thing)..
I measured it, and turned out it only gave a 0.3 db loss..
The loss depends on impedance though (or so I was told) and sometimes the signal sort of crashes (thin sounding, low level) also, supposedly, based on impedance.... Or something
Old 3rd September 2007
  #7
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Jim vanBergen's Avatar
 

It's done all the time, but it's still preferred to have a transformer in between the two lines so that interaction is minimalized and to maintain proper impedance in 600ohm loaded, +4dB drive lines.

Still...I do it when there is no other option. As has been said before, many times there is little if any loss or noise involved. The question is, are you willing to risk your project, and possibly your client? of course, if you have to choose between having a backup machine or NOT, I'd say have the backup machine.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #8
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Thank you all for your help! I think I`ll give the y-cable solution a try, so that I can run the signal to a DAT recorder as a backup.

Håvard
Old 6th September 2007
  #9
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Graham Tobias's Avatar
 

haha once someone had me record a jazz show at a club with his own rig (g5, 002 with faders, and not the slightest bit configured for anything live) and then I found out that I had to split the lead vox into the FOH board and thus into the PA. Me, working with entirely other people's gear, expected someone would have a y cable or a 1 channel split or something. Anyways whatever method of doing the split they had used in the past was not there so I had to do an aux send in protools out one of the 002 outs. *shudder*. I don't ever want to put protools between the mics and the PA ever again. It worked fine, but I was not so excited for what could've happened. Got to use a Shure KSM9 on the vox though. That's got to be the best sounding stage vocal mic I've ever heard and it records amazingly.
Old 6th September 2007
  #10
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valleysound's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Tobias View Post
haha once someone had me record a jazz show at a club with his own rig (g5, 002 with faders, and not the slightest bit configured for anything live) and then I found out that I had to split the lead vox into the FOH board and thus into the PA. Me, working with entirely other people's gear, expected someone would have a y cable or a 1 channel split or something. Anyways whatever method of doing the split they had used in the past was not there so I had to do an aux send in protools out one of the 002 outs. *shudder*. I don't ever want to put protools between the mics and the PA ever again. It worked fine, but I was not so excited for what could've happened. Got to use a Shure KSM9 on the vox though. That's got to be the best sounding stage vocal mic I've ever heard and it records amazingly.
Any noticible latency on the live vocal through the PA?
Old 6th September 2007
  #11
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triton's Avatar
 

In a live situation, most of the time all mics are split 2 ways and the mics also drive 50m of multicable to FOH mixer and a few meter to monitor mixer.
This split is done in a stage block, no trafos are used, is standard wiring procedure in stageblocks all over the world and works fine .Some stage blocks have a third split for say an O.B. unit or recording truck.

No noticable difference but i do not like to split 3 ways as then u will notice a significant difference especially in the high end.

Of course I prefer active stage blocks where possible and these are standard on high end gigs, but this also depends on budget as decent active stageblocks are not cheap.

Of course when working digital its all optical and the signal is converted before the split.

Now for your original question ''Is it possible to split the signal coming from a mic pre using a Y-cable?''
answer ... assuming its a good pre its no problem but u cld hv ground issues and then u really need a trafo or at least a way to isolate grounds say lifting pin 1 at the end of the slave which wld hv its own ground.
With lifting grounds make sure that the musician side is ALWAYS grounded ... just in case.

So u really shldnt worry about using a wee little y lead split cable
Old 6th September 2007
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen View Post
It's done all the time, but it's still preferred to have a transformer in between the two lines so that interaction is minimalized and to maintain proper impedance in 600ohm loaded, +4dB drive lines.

Still...I do it when there is no other option. As has been said before, many times there is little if any loss or noise involved. The question is, are you willing to risk your project, and possibly your client? of course, if you have to choose between having a backup machine or NOT, I'd say have the backup machine.
I would suggest that for this application that a transformer would actually degrade the signal quality, assuming that the devices are properly connected. We're not talking about running 1000' of cable to a satellite truck here.....
If the mic preamp has modern, low impedance balanced outputs connected to modern balanced bridging inputs, you should be able to "Y" the signal a half a dozen times before any issues arise. Ditto if all the connections are un-balanced. ( assuming 10k input impedance, you would need 16 devices in parallel to get down to 600 ohms....)
The bigger issue here is the concept of "properly connected". If there are combinations of balanced and un-balanced gear then things get a little more difficult.
Jim, I know that you know all this stuff already, but there are a bunch of novices reading here that spend a lot of time perpetuating false myths. These Rane connection primers are very helpful in this regard.

Here's the link to the reprints

and specifically the link to interfacing for dummies-

"Sound System Interconnection"

"Why not Wye"


All the best,
-mark
Old 6th September 2007
  #13
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Graham Tobias's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by valleysound View Post
Any noticible latency on the live vocal through the PA?
Not really. Protools wasnt working very hard. 10 inputs, no plug ins or anything.... Powerful g5.
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