The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Tags: , ,

New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics Condenser Microphones
Old 10th July 2008
  #211
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Maybe in a secret chamber of my heart I slightly regret that they are no 8030 (wide cardioids) available heh But they are really nice and I think they will become my new friends ...
The 8030 is coming - but it is a fig-8. There is a wide-cardioid planned, but I don't know what it will be called, or when (probably before the fig-8).



Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
The only thing which is not clear to me is their modular structure. Similarly like Schoeps, they have separate bodies and capsules. But when I asked the dealer about the prices of each separately, he was confused and then told me the capsules prices which were basically the same as the full mic prices ... If, similarly like Schoeps, the price of capsules is approximately half of the full mic price, it would be nice to think of 8020 capsules. But it does not seem to be so ...
Talk to Pán Tuz'il at Panter, he will know the details. A stereoset is about €125 cheaper than buying two microphones.

The head is the complete mic. and the end only an XLR.

In the UK a single mic. is £745 - the head on it's own is the MKHC 8040 and is £595 - the XLR module is the MZX 8000 and is £135. You will note that the head + XLR is cheaper than the mic. - but that excludes the price of the windshield, swivel and case that comes with the complete mic.


One further note - the MKH 8000 are symmetrical capsule microphones and the intermodulation distortion is very very much lower than normal mics.. IM distortion is not something you hear as distortion, but is a low level muddying and colouration of the sound. When you listen carefully you will notice that the MKH series enable you to hear subtalties that are normally masked.
Old 11th July 2008
  #212
Gear Nut
Something new to listen to. Here's the opening of a piece I recorded for 6 trumpets last week using a pair of MKH 8040 in ORTF and a Forssell SMP2 mic pre. The rest of the chain was an Apogee AD16X, Symphony Mobile card, MacBook Pro and Digital Performer.
The room was a good size recital hall.

Ken Kugler
Old 11th July 2008
  #213
Lives for gear
 
videoteque's Avatar
Thanks to all for your opinions and samples!!!thumbsupthumbsup
Old 11th July 2008
  #214
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
Samples

Here are few samples to listen:

(few tones on monochord)

Sennheiser MKH8040

Schoeps MK21

Schoeps MK2


Just for a general approximate idea, nothing "scientific" (not able to play exactly the same thing again)

More instruments may follow, should there be an interest
Preamp: Thermionic Culture Earlybird 2.2
AD: DAD AX-24

I know that MK4 would be ideal to compare with, but I don´t have it here
Old 11th July 2008
  #215
Gear Maniac
 

I much prefer the depth, richness and openness of the MK2's in these samples. 8040's sounded quite 2D and veiled to me in comparison. I wonder if the 8020's would be a better choice?

M.
Old 11th July 2008
  #216
I like the sound of the omni too, but it makes sense that the low end would be fuller on such a mic. I think I liked the Sen better than the wide card, though, but since they are different mics, they would probably perform differently with different placements - in other words, techniques would differ slightly. I think it is clear that they are excellent mics, though. Different of course, but both top notch. One is fillet mignon, the other the more flavorful strip side, but they both come from a porterhouse and not a box of steak-ums.
Old 11th July 2008
  #217
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
For me, the difference is quite similar also when used with other instruments and applications ... (I did much more, of course).
MKH 8040 is very nice at first, but compared to Schoeps a bit small, simple, 2D ... less rich ... I know, we are comparing microphones with different patterns but still ...

Maybe I should seek some medical consultancy: seems I have developed some inherent allergy on cardioids in general heh
Old 11th July 2008
  #218
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
For me, it sounds quite similar also when used with other instruments and applications ... (I did much more, of course).
MKH 8040 is very nice at first, but compared to Schoeps a bit small, simple, 2D ... less rich ... I know, we are comparing microphones with different patterns but still ...

Maybe I should seek some medical consultancy: seems I have developed some inherent allergy on cardioids in general heh
Indeed. I could echo what you stated when comparing a Schoeps MK4 to MK21 (I don't have any Schoeps omni capsules here). So I think your impressions are probably more due to the pattern than the brand.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Old 11th July 2008
  #219
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick View Post
Indeed. I could echo what you stated when comparing a Schoeps MK4 to MK21 (I don't have any Schoeps omni capsules here). So I think your impressions are probably more due to the pattern than the brand.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Actually, I have not tried MK4 capsule yet ... I used to have MK4V for quite a long time. Pity that 8020 are not available here for trying. Must persuade the local Sennheiser dealer to get them ... They said: we don´t have them here, since we do not suppose any interest in them ...
Old 11th July 2008
  #220
Lives for gear
 

Thanks Ivo. I agree the pattern variance is too much to overcome to do direct comparisons. But if those were my mic choices I could still pick which one I would use for that performance/venue/instrument.

I set up the files as I always do when doing comparisons -- first load into the mixer, then add some random characters to the front of the name so I don't know which sample is which. Checked for levels and of course there are differences in peaks. I didn't bother with RMS measurements, just did some brief playback while switching to ensure general volume was close enough, which it was. Then played and listened in earnest on headphones and speakers, first all the way through on each clip, then switching between them during playback loop.

I quickly and easily selected which I preferred, then looked at the names. The MKH8040 sample was by far my favorite, followed by MK2, with MK21 last.

To my ears with my systems I heard the 8040 presenting a full three dimensional image, with detail and coherence. Very strong warm bass, smooth and flowing upper midrange. Very close to the other samples I have heard of it, and in my own use. In comparison, the MK21 sounded quite thin and discrete (similar to what I found when I had it here), with MK2 somewhere in between the others.

Maybe sometime you or others will follow up with additional comparisons of matching patterns, but for now these samples reinforce my choice of the MKH8040 for the majority of my studio and live needs. I think they are great microphones.

Steve
Old 11th July 2008
  #221
Lives for gear
 

Thanks Ivo for some excellent files again. The clear winner to my ear is the MK21. The MK2 is great too, but just a bit woofly, and the 8040 is not bad but compared to the MK21 is hard or cold and missing something special.
Old 12th July 2008
  #222
Gear Maniac
 
Prick Up UR Ears's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by squeegybug View Post
The MKH8040 sample was by far my favorite, followed by MK2, with MK21 last.
To my ears with my systems I heard the 8040 presenting a full three dimensional image, with detail and coherence.
I just can second that!
Old 12th July 2008
  #223
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Pity that 8020 are not available here for trying. Must persuade the local Sennheiser dealer to get them ... They said: we don´t have them here, since we do not suppose any interest in them ...
That's a shame - I would have thought the 8020 would be very popular. I'm certainly getting a pair.

If you are serious, Panter can certainly ask Sennheiser Germany to send them a loan pair for you to try out.
Old 13th July 2008
  #224
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
The clear winner to my ear is the MK21. The MK2 is great too, but just a bit woofly, and the 8040 is not bad but compared to the MK21 is hard or cold and missing something special.
I can't hear the hardness and coldness of the 8040, but it tells me how different we hear things, for either physical and/or psychological reasons.
For me it's impossible to find a 'winner' - first of all because I haven't heard the instrument live, so I don't know what to compare with. All clips sounded fine to my ears. Pros and cons in every example, but all very nice.
To compare the general character of Schoeps vs. Sennheiser I agree that that MK2 vs 8020 would be the way to go. It should be of different sources, as well. One instrument is too limited.

But thanks very much for doing the samples Ivo. So far I'm convinced that these are all very nice microphones.

By the way I tried some EQ on the 8040 to give a little more top end, and it responded very well to the applied EQ

Mads
Old 14th July 2008
  #225
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
So after 4 days of trying MKH 8040 in the company of Schoeps (of course, the above posted samples are just a meaningless drop in the ocean), I felt that 8040 are very nice microphones but somehow a tiny bit too "technical" , clinical, cold for me or how to put it. I slightly lacked the poetry/magic touch or a "personality" (all still within a clean realm). Whatever I played, sounded more interesting/musical/3D with Schoeps (as usually). So I returned MKH 8040 to the dealer and thanked for letting me trying them ... I must finally try MK4 (before I had only MK4V) - although their reputation sometimes waves ...

(something different, but on Wednesday I will have an opportunity to try a pair of DPA 4041 for few days. Looking at the price, I just hope they will not be too good heh)
Old 14th July 2008
  #226
Lives for gear
 
MichaelPatrick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
(something different, but on Wednesday I will have an opportunity to try a pair of DPA 4041 for few days. Looking at the price, I just hope they will not be too good heh)
I'm very interested in your findings. The larger capsules have that steering we can't get from SDCs.

Are you planning also to try the tube model? Curious why/why not?
Old 14th July 2008
  #227
Lives for gear
 
d_fu's Avatar
 

Ivo, just wondering, did you only test and compare with various sources individually? Or did you also test how the recorded files mixed with others?

I once posted a small comparison between MKH 50 and AKG CK3 (hyper) here (both used as a spot on a violin), and while the CK3 sounded quite good, in the end I used the MKH track, becaused it sounded much better in the mix. The AKG stood out more, while the MKH blended very nicely.


Daniel
Old 14th July 2008
  #228
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick View Post
I'm very interested in your findings. The larger capsules have that steering we can't get from SDCs.

Are you planning also to try the tube model? Curious why/why not?
Only solid state. Why ? Because they do not have the tube ones heh Anyway, this is already for a separate topic ...
Old 14th July 2008
  #229
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_fu View Post
Ivo, just wondering, did you only test and compare with various sources individually? Or did you also test how the recorded files mixed with others?

I once posted a small comparison between MKH 50 and AKG CK3 (hyper) here (both used as a spot on a violin), and while the CK3 sounded quite good, in the end I used the MKH track, becaused it sounded much better in the mix. The AKG stood out more, while the MKH blended very nicely.


Daniel
I tested how it sounds on the large array of my various acoustic instruments - one by one. Basically I am involved in recording solo acoustic instruments (even if accompanied by other instruments, they are always a kind of solo), so my consideration is detailed, "magnificent" sound always ... for that I found that Schoeps give me higher pleasure somehow ...

It is likely that for more complex recording needs such mics like 8040 may be sometimes handy. If this situation arises, I may rethink having some cardioids .... be it 8040 or MK4 ...
Old 14th July 2008
  #230
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Smile

The MKH symmetrical capsule series, including the 8000 are clean and lack distortion. As such they show up any deficiencies in the instrument, playing and acoustic as they don't hide it in the IM-distortion low level mush; you can certainly hear subtleties that you miss with other mics..

This means that if it's good it sounds good; but can be ruthless if it's not.

Other mics have "colour" and/or "character" - this can be good or bad, depending on your personal perspective.

That's why there are varieties of "paint brushes" - you choose what does the job for you.
Old 18th July 2008
  #231
Here for the gear
 

Sennheiser 8020 omnis with orchestra

This week we tried our pair of Sennheiser 8020 omnis, spaced about 24 inches apart, as the center or main array, with a large symphony orchestra. We compared them with Schoeps MK21 sub-cardioids and Neumann TLM50 mics. All mics were located about 10-11 feet above the stage floor, and 1-2 feet behind the conductor. The Sennheisers sounded quite dark and diffuse and didn't have much reach to the back or the orchestra. Other omnis we have tried, such as the excellent Josephson C617s, (and the TLM50s) sound much better and capture more detail with a good combination of presence and ambience. Perhaps the 8020s could be improved with spheres, but in this trial, they clearly were not first choice.

However we recently used the 8020s on a Schneider disc as the "main pair" to record solo flute with piano accompaniment and they sounded very good. The room was reverberant and bright and the mics fairly close. We also had Crowley-Tripp ribbon spots on the piano and flute.

They are good mics, but not the best for a large ensemble--perhaps too "omni." Their LF response is incredible. And the cost is reasonable for the quality.
Old 18th July 2008
  #232
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Smile

The 8020 are pretty flat and don't have the diffuse field switch like the MKH 20 which would compensate for the treble droop in the far field (ie: not sound so dark).

But there will be a screw-in filter module later this year (at about the same time as the MZD 8000 AES42 digital module). This will give a 10dB pad and have bass roll-off and treble-boost switches.

I was in ABbey Road No.1 yesterday where the LSO was miked up with about 30 Sennheiser and Neumann digital mics (MKH 8020/40/50 with MZD 8000 and Neumann KM-D series and TLM 103-D) - all digital and all going to disk via the RME AES42 unit, MADI and Sequoia. The big Neve mixer was just the monitor mix - all digital from the mic.

It sounded wonderful.

And I *did* get to look in the mic. cupboard - paradise on earthe with everything from an original Blumlein mic., Neumanns with all original tubes (and spares) - an orgasm for a sound recordist. heh
Old 18th July 2008
  #233
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Maybe in a secret chamber of my heart I slightly regret that they are no 8030 (wide cardioids) available heh
If you want a wide cardioid and or fig-8 capsule go to the main sennheiser website at www.sennheiser.com and ask them in writing by posting the question via the website.

The more people ask the more they will know what people want and can react accordingly.
Old 18th July 2008
  #234
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
If you want a wide cardioid and or fig-8 capsule go to the main sennheiser website at www.sennheiser.com and ask them in writing by posting the question via the website.

The more people ask the more they will know what people want and can react accordingly.
Seems Schoeps already did it without asking heh
Old 18th July 2008
  #235
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gilliam View Post
This week we tried our pair of Sennheiser 8020 omnis, spaced about 24 inches apart, as the center or main array, with a large symphony orchestra. We compared them with Schoeps MK21 sub-cardioids and Neumann TLM50 mics. All mics were located about 10-11 feet above the stage floor, and 1-2 feet behind the conductor. The Sennheisers sounded quite dark and diffuse and didn't have much reach to the back or the orchestra. Other omnis we have tried, such as the excellent Josephson C617s, (and the TLM50s) sound much better and capture more detail with a good combination of presence and ambience. Perhaps the 8020s could be improved with spheres, but in this trial, they clearly were not first choice.

However we recently used the 8020s on a Schneider disc as the "main pair" to record solo flute with piano accompaniment and they sounded very good. The room was reverberant and bright and the mics fairly close. We also had Crowley-Tripp ribbon spots on the piano and flute.

They are good mics, but not the best for a large ensemble--perhaps too "omni." Their LF response is incredible. And the cost is reasonable for the quality.
Thanks for posting this - I found it very informative! It would have been excellent if you had tried the orchestra recordings using the 8020 with spheres, but I guess you can't have it all...!

Thanks again!
Old 23rd July 2008
  #236
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Seems Schoeps already did it without asking heh
And how do you know they weren't asked? heh

But the Schoeps range has been going a long time and the MKH 8000 are new.

Priorities are set by customer demand, and it's only by letting a manufacturer know what you want that hey can prioritise when things are released.

I have already pressed them for a fig-8 and the Y-cable. The more people that want them and add their requests can only serve to let them know what is really wanted and what is important.
Old 11th August 2008
  #237
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Here are few samples to listen:

(few tones on monochord)

Hi Ivo!

I loved all three clips and got very interested in the instrument you play.

Would you mind telling me some more about the instrument? Any pictures of it?

I'm very much into early and folk music.


/Peter
Old 11th August 2008
  #238
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
I was in ABbey Road No.1 yesterday where the LSO was miked up with about 30 Sennheiser and Neumann digital mics (MKH 8020/40/50 with MZD 8000 and Neumann KM-D series and TLM 103-D) - all digital and all going to disk via the RME AES42 unit, MADI and Sequoia. The big Neve mixer was just the monitor mix - all digital from the mic.

It sounded wonderful.
What did? The Neve monitor mix or were you auditioning the digital mix?
Old 11th August 2008
  #239
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
What did? The Neve monitor mix or were you auditioning the digital mix?
All digital microphones (Sennheiser & Neumann) - the A/D was at the mic. capsule and sent by AES42 to the RME units and recorded onto Sequoia.

The Neve was just so you could have a rough mix to hear what it sounded like.
Old 11th August 2008
  #240
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
All digital microphones (Sennheiser & Neumann) - the A/D was at the mic. capsule and sent by AES42 to the RME units and recorded onto Sequoia.

The Neve was just so you could have a rough mix to hear what it sounded like.
Yes I know all that. I'll rephrase my question. Precisely what were you listening on, to make your conclusion that "it sounded wonderful".

1. The Neve monitor mix, which demands a D/A for each channel back to analog before the mixer.
2. A stereo mix from a digital mixer, if so, what was the digital mixer employed in this case.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
nobtwiddler / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
0
johnnyjellybean / High end
16
gar_lei / So much gear, so little time
7
dholzer / So much gear, so little time
2
angusdevil / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
3

Forum Jump
Forum Jump