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New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics Condenser Microphones
Old 9th May 2008
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_fu View Post
Someone posted a link to very nice small mic holders for the MKH 80x0 or other small mics a while ago, but I can't seem to find it... Who can help?

I think you actually mean THIS.
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New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics-mzx8000ii.jpg  
Old 9th May 2008
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_fu View Post
That must have been the one, thanks. Seems I need something even smaller in diameter (for an Audix Micro mic).
Look at the INV-2 or maybe the INV-1 will work.
Attached Thumbnails
New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics-inv02_mkh8000_01.jpg   New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics-inv01_ccm41_01.jpg  
Old 9th May 2008
  #183
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The mic in question (Audix 1290) has a diameter of 12 mm... Neither of these seem to fit. But there is an affordable shockmount from Audix, too.
Old 17th May 2008
  #184
Gear Nut
 

I guess i was being optimistic in hoping for a release of a figure 8 addition to the mkh 8000 line at aes europe.....

On a side note.. The self noise seems to be the same for both the mkh 40 and 8040 .... anyone notice otherwise ?
Old 20th May 2008
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meathman View Post
I guess i was being optimistic in hoping for a release of a figure 8 addition to the mkh 8000 line at aes europe.....
Were you (are you) here? I didn't see you. I am sending this from the exhibition now.

But Sennheiser *are* showing the MZD 8000 digital module (2-channel) which will be available later this year. One of these and an 8040 stereo set and a Neumann adaptor kit will enable an ORTF digital recording direct into a portable. heh


I'll be doing this into the Nagra VI as soon as I can lay my hands on one.

The fig-8 head *is* on the roadmap, just no date yet. Every tme I see the people from Sennheiser Germany I tell them how everyone is asking for this and when is it coming?


Quote:
Originally Posted by meathman View Post
On a side note.. The self noise seems to be the same for both the mkh 40 and 8040 .... anyone notice otherwise ?
This is correct - the old MKH were extremely quiet and the new ones are just as quiet. The diaphragm on both units is a 16mm one; despite the 8000 series is much smaller, the diaphragm is the same size as the MKH 20/30/40 series.
Old 20th May 2008
  #186
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Thanks john, I was not at aes , but I was trying to check in everyday to see what new gear announcements were made.....

Any thoughts on how a 8040 paired with an mkh30 might work? Like I said, im building a ms rig, and am trying to build the highest quality possible ...

Or.. ar the mkh 30/40 matched and better suited to eachother ...
Old 21st May 2008
  #187
Could someone explain how an 8040 differs in tonal pick-up from a tube mike like a U47.

Is it that the U47 exaggerates certain tones (favourable to a male voice say) while the MKH 8040 would present an unbiased canvas of sound across the spectrum - more appropriate for classical music.

Thats what im hoping you see!

please help by ushering or shoving me through this buying decision.
Old 26th May 2008
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meathman View Post
Thanks john, I was not at aes , but I was trying to check in everyday to see what new gear announcements were made.....

Any thoughts on how a 8040 paired with an mkh30 might work? Like I said, im building a ms rig, and am trying to build the highest quality possible ...

Or.. ar the mkh 30/40 matched and better suited to eachother ...
The MKH 30/40 are excellent - I have been using these for the last 20 years.

Starting now I would get a stereo set of MKH 8040 (pair matched to within 1dB in both frequency response and sensitivity) and an MKH 30 - then add the 8030 when it comes out.

This will do both ORTF and MS as the situation suits.
Old 26th May 2008
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundseeker View Post
Could someone explain how an 8040 differs in tonal pick-up from a tube mike like a U47.

Is it that the U47 exaggerates certain tones (favourable to a male voice say) while the MKH 8040 would present an unbiased canvas of sound across the spectrum - more appropriate for classical music.

Thats what im hoping you see!

please help by ushering or shoving me through this buying decision.
This is comparing chalk and cheese - absolutely different.

The U47 is a valve (tube) AF condenser mic. which has character and colour.

The MKH 8000 series are RF condenser mics. which are neutral and clean in character with extremely low IM distortion - which is why I use them for classical.
Old 27th May 2008
  #190
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thanks...

how critical is the matched pair part?

I only have enough $ for a single now. Would it be better to buy one now , then add an additional one later (for stereo recordings) or should i just wait until i can get a pair thats matched?

Thanks
Old 27th May 2008
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meathman View Post
thanks...

how critical is the matched pair part?
Pretty critical - the Sennheiser MKH 8000 series are matched to within 1dB for both frequency response and sensitivity.
Old 27th May 2008
  #192
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I just got the official shocks from Sennheiser. They look great, but a little too small to hold the mic steady with the cable. It has a single clip instead of 2 on the older mkh series shocks. The shock in the pic above looks a little more stable.
Old 27th May 2008
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don S View Post
I just got the official shocks from Sennheiser. They look great, but a little too small to hold the mic steady with the cable. It has a single clip instead of 2 on the older mkh series shocks. The shock in the pic above looks a little more stable.
I think the MZS 8000 is really only OK for the mic with the remote cable.

Personally I prefer the Rycote INV-2 and INV-3 for the MKH 8000.
Old 6th June 2008
  #194
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Time for help from the pros

Hi Everyone,

After reading about mics and checking recordings for months, I finally decided to get a pair of MKH 8020s for my high school because I decided I wanted that "omni" sound - transparent, decent bass response from a distance, that "being there" sound etc. I also made a Jecklin disk according to all the specs. I would like to post a couple of recording for some feedback. The recordings are done with only two 8020s into a Yamaha AW 16G and the jecklin disk. I mixed and mastered the two stereo tracks in Audition. I did put a bit of eq on the wind ensemble tracks, but none on the sax tracks. I had to boost the volume of the tracks by about 3-6 db because they sounded too quiet, but I didn't want distortion when I was originally recording.

Maybe it is a case of the classic "sounds good in headphones (Sennheiser HD 280), but not good in the speakers", or it is mic placement or preamps (none other than in the Yamaha), but I don't think I am really happy with the sound - the sound is too distant. Anyway, fire away. I will try to get some choir or string recordings from the same concert.

The sax ensemble was recorded in the art room (see photo). The wind ensemble in the theatre with the disk about 15 feet above the stage 15-10 feet behind the conductor (me).

Wind Ensemble to follow.

Thanks,

Chris
Attached Thumbnails
New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics-sax-ensemble-photo.jpg  
Attached Files
Old 6th June 2008
  #195
Here for the gear
Red face Help

Here are a couple of wind ensemble clips. I am planning to buy an AB Stereo bar, but we could only try out the mics for 30 days, so making the jecklin disk was the fastest and cheapest way to get the mics in action. We only received the mics 5 days before the spring concerts, so the whole thing was kinda rushed. Next year we are planning to go the laptop, Fireface 800 route and perhaps an Millennia pre-amp. First I have to figure out if I like the mics or it is me that is making them sound bad (probably the latter ) I realize that a pro group would also help, but I don't have that to work with. The sound is so upfront and present (dare I say "cardiod") in the headphones, but not so much in the speakers.

Sorry no pic of the jecklin placement in the theatre.

Thanks for your time,

Chris
Old 6th June 2008
  #196
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The sax ensemble definitely sounds distant. When I use a Jecklin it is for chamber music, and MUCH closer-- about 3 feet away from the closest players. Also, the JD is usually used with rising top end mics, such as the Schoeps MK2S, but I have had good results with DPA4003 with trapezoidal grills. I have not tried the 8020 with Jecklin, but can assure you that they would do fine in a spaced A-B-- from .5 to 1m.

The wind ensemble sounds much better, but is a different kettle of fish. I cannot help but think that you would like the 8020 more in A-B. Some reverb wouldn't hurt with the wind ensemble, either. And makes sure you have enough height above the floor that the players are on-- 8-10 feet for chamber, and 9-11 for the wind ensemble. You do NOT want to be on axis with those trumpet players!

There really isn't anything close to a mic as good at the usual discounted price-- my advice is buy them and experiment with a stereo bar. They are so small you could simply gaffer tape them to a wood dowel. And as you have noticed, you can either make a good headphone recording or a good recording to be heard on speakers-- you cannot do both.

Rich
Old 6th June 2008
  #197
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I owned an AW16G when they first came out. Not to diss your gear.... but that is a 44.1 kHz 16 bit machine, and the onboard preamps and AD also leave a lot to be desired.... in my experience. Obviously there are always lots of other factors involved with getting the sound you want, and I have not used the 8020. But I can certainly say the 8040 is the finest small condenser mic I have owned or used. No more shopping for me, for that need.

I also agree that balancing and setup with most headphones will cause grief. Especially the HD280... used them a lot for years, and was so glad to see them go when I got ATH-M50. Much happier tracking with those.

Steve
Old 6th June 2008
  #198
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Thank you both for your comments. Yes, I had better try them in AB before our trial runs out. I was so impressed with some recordings of Univ. of North Texas Wind Ensemble and they used the older MKH20, so I thought I would try the newer version and unfortunately, we couldn't afford the DPA 4006's I really wanted. I also love the Reference Recordings of Prof. Johnson - Dallas Wind Symphony - what power! But I imagine his set-up is a little more than a stereo pair! He never divulges his techniques anyway.

As for the Yamaha, it is on the way out when we get the laptop setup in the fall. Nothing more frustrating than telling the students, "Well, it kinda sounds like that but better" hmmmm.

I'll keep experimenting.

Thanks again,

Chris
Old 6th June 2008
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaaster View Post
because I decided I wanted that "omni" sound - transparent, decent bass response from a distance, that "being there" sound etc.
IMO Omni's are not distant mics. For distance, you want cardiod, hyper-cardiod, or even super cardiod depending on how distant. Omni's tend to have a distance roll off. The more distant sound sources ballance lower than the closer ones (proximity effect-ish, but at greater distances).

I like Omni's in that the source sound equals for the most part the recorded sound. But at a distance, a stereo pair of Omni's yield virtually no stereo image. Maybe a hint of one with a Jecklin disc, but still debateable.
Old 7th June 2008
  #200
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Chris, I don't think the sax recording is too distant, or if it is it's just a bit so. The problem is a boxy sounding room. If you can do a similar setup, perhaps moving the mics just a little closer, and get into a good room, the sound will be great.

An alternative is to move the mics quite a bit closer and use artificial reverb to help create a more pleasing space.
Old 10th June 2008
  #201
Here for the gear
More Sax and Violins please

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your feedback. I think you're right, the room is too boxy. My band room is quite a bit drier.

Here is another recording with the 8020s in my band room, now in AB set-up 15.5" apart, about 8 feet high and 8 feet away from the group. I don't have any pics available right now. The student ensemble is 1 soprano, 2 altos, two tenors and 1 bari. The soloist is a local alto sax pro that came in and sat in. This is still all onto the AW16G, no eq, no effects or compression (except it is an mp3 file - sorry).

Looking forward to trying them with a decent pre-amp and A/D converter in the fall.

Comments are welcome,

Chris
Attached Files
Old 10th June 2008
  #202
Gear Nut
 

Pipe Organ recording with MKH8040 pair . .

I recently recorded a recital at a local college with 8040 pair, and found that the bass response is quite good on these mics. Recorded using MR-1000, no ext. preamp.

I have the Rycote clips John W. has mentioned, very nice.

FWIW,
Rick Z
Attached Thumbnails
New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics-lvc_chapel_organ.jpg  
Attached Files

BachTrioSonataClip.mp3 (2.00 MB, 1000 views)

Old 10th June 2008
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickZ View Post
I recently recorded a recital at a local college with 8040 pair, and found that the bass response is quite good on these mics. Recorded using MR-1000, no ext. preamp.

I have the Rycote clips John W. has mentioned, very nice.

FWIW,
Rick Z
Just listened to this on headphones. Really liked this mellow 'woody' tone. A relatively dry acoustic, but with air around it: very nice!
Usually engineers tend to record organ with omni's, wonder if this recording would sound as good with the 8020. Did you try omni's or did you just go for the 8040?
How far was the capsules apart, looks like about 25-30cm, right?

Best,
Mads
Old 10th June 2008
  #204
Gear Nut
 

25 cm apart

I hadn't measured before, but just did, glad you asked.

I only have one omni mic, which I use for LFE pickup when I do surround organ recordings. This really picks up the thunder of the 32 foot stops, which are at 16 Hz to 32 Hz frequency range. The organ I just recorded does not have real 32 foot stops, so I didn't get to test the 8040's on really low bass.

I'm glad to hear you listened on headphones, and wonder if you've noticed that omni recordings seem to sound like 2 sound sources, hard right and hard left.

There is a 32 voice choir that I record frequently, always with cardioids, and another recordist always uses spaced omnis. To my ears the cardioids give an accurate sound field, whereas the omnis sound like two choirs, at opposite ends of a room.

I guess that's why a lot of us do what we do, we like to do it 'our' way. Well, I guess I just exposed myself as an 'advanced hobbyist' recordist, since I don't have to listen to a producer, saying, I want a lot of room in the recording, or do this or that.

I don't like most choral recordings, as the Conventional Wisdom seems to be it must sound like it was recorded in a cathedral, and if we can't understand the words, oh well. That's probably a little harsh, but lots of choral recordings are like that, imho.

Best regards,
Rick Z
Old 10th June 2008
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
Just listened to this on headphones. Really liked this mellow 'woody' tone. A relatively dry acoustic, but with air around it: very nice!
Usually engineers tend to record organ with omni's, wonder if this recording would sound as good with the 8020. Did you try omni's or did you just go for the 8040?
How far was the capsules apart, looks like about 25-30cm, right?
The MKH 8040 are flat down to 30Hz, which is a good deal lower than most other directional mics (if you look at the frequency plots) - the MKH 8020 go down to 10Hz, though.

The 8040 would have missed the very lowest organ notes, but would have given a better result than other directional mics.
Old 10th June 2008
  #206
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Sax Ensemble

Here is the photo showing the mic setup for the sax ensemble that played Spain.

Chris
Attached Thumbnails
New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics-sax-ensemble-june-5-2008.jpg  
Old 10th July 2008
  #207
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So I finally got a pair of MKH 8040 to try. Even before I started recording - they are so cute small pets ... The simple mic mounts are very good, steady, easy to adjust. Quite cool small guys they are.

I have played with them in the afternoon playing few instruments (guitar, flute, violin, drum etc.) and singing . Always comparing to Schoeps MK21 (no MK4 here)

I must say that Schoeps and Sennheiser sound VERY MUCH different ... Like classical apples and oranges ... 8040 are very smooth, gentle, warm sounding ... very pleasant ... no extra "shhh" "sss" or any other "effects". I would even say that they sound a tad "ribbonish" in a way (funny, I know). Very decent, musical and quite focused (well, cardioids). But also a bit less "rich" sounding. Kind of too simple ?

They offer quite a different sound rendering than Schoeps. MK21 sounded a tiny bit "sharper" in a comparison and of course, a bit more "relaxed" or blurred. On nylon string "meditative" guitar 8040sounded round, introvert .. MK21 had more body and air somehow. Flutes etc. would be great with 8040 if needed their nice warm distinct place with other instruments around ... ORTF or NOS offers still different rendering than my favourite and prevailing AB ... A nice alternative to my usual "omnipresent" instruments rercordings maybe ?

Closely placed 8040 pair sounds very good on voice and vocal (I however much prefered using stereo pair than a single one).

Overall , I seem to like them. First , it is a type of sound which is missing in my setup ... Second, they sound nice. Third - they look very nice and are so friendly. Short time ago I had a pair of DPA 4023 here - and they were so unfriendly, difficult, messy ...

Maybe in a secret chamber of my heart I slightly regret that they are no 8030 (wide cardioids) available heh

The only thing which is not clear to me is their modular structure. Similarly like Schoeps, they have separate bodies and capsules. But when I asked the dealer about the prices of each separately, he was confused and then told me the capsules prices which were basically the same as the full mic prices ... If, similarly like Schoeps, the price of capsules is approximately half of the full mic price, it would be nice to think of 8020 capsules. But it does not seem to be so ...

I would be very much interested to compare Schoeps MK2 with 8020 ... No 8020s here so far ... Anyone compared these two ? Or at least recorded with 8020 ?
Old 10th July 2008
  #208
The modular capabilities of the 8K series is not so much for cost savings or for purchasing in a modular way, but flexibility for fixed or semi-fixed installations, where you can quickly change out a capsule as the situation dictates or to be able to use the extension cable to fit the head in a space where the whole assembly would be too large.

If you do buy just the capsule, there is a very slight cost savings, but it is very close to the cost of the whole kit.

A pair of 8040 are next on my shopping list, so am very interested to hear more feedback on these mics. I have an 8050 that I have just begun to use, but am waiting for my Rycote wind screen kit before I can begin to use it more.
Old 10th July 2008
  #209
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In the meantime I tried the things a bit more and listened back again freshly to what I recorded ... and in the end cannot help: these damn Schoeps simply have something "extra" and special (again) - that "Rolls-Royce" unique sound touch ... something very rare and still organic ... more life and spring water as if .... Sennheisers sound very nice too, but somehow maybe a tiny bit more "simple" in a way ... (I would not dare to say "a bit more plastic", but I wanted to ...). They sound very nice and sweet indeed, but Schoeps seem to sound a bit more "aristocratic" in the end ... Well, time to put all of them back to their boxes .... for today ...
Old 10th July 2008
  #210
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Ivo, I heard that 'organic/ribbon' quality in the 8040 from the samples that have been posted here (some side by side with Schoeps), and also on my own work. In blind listening I preferred the 8040 for my needs and bought them, I like them on vocals too. I'll be interested to hear your clips if you post them (hopefully without identifying them first). I no longer have any Schoeps mics here to compare with.

Steve
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