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New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics Condenser Microphones
Old 4th December 2007
  #31
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I haven't seen much online from retailers on these.

Perhaps my assumption is incorrect, but as the "head" can be detached from the body, does the head only contain the capsule or all of the electronics as well? I haven't seen just the heads advertised, so I do not know if the modular design is parallel to that of Schoeps or something a bit different?

Inquiring minds want to know!
Old 4th December 2007
  #32
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From what I've seen when it comes to pricing, it looks like the modular system is similar to the Neumann KM series where a certain amount of the electronics are included with the capsule.

I'm looking forward to giving these a try and having accessories for them eventually. Having the active tubes (extension tubes like Schoeps/DPA) will be great for work in tight spaces where quality is still needed.

--Ben
Old 4th December 2007
  #33
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Plush's Avatar
Hello Rich,

I meant to describe a dry sound when I used the word "dessicated."
You're right, I don't think I used the word quite correctly, but I was trying to get across an idea of dry sound.

Adj. 1. desiccated - thoroughly dried out; "old boxes of desiccated Cuban cigars"; "dried-out boards beginning to split"

For the poster above, VUK, yes you can get the other heads (cardioid and hyper-card) separately. All electronics are in the head a la Neumann 100 series.


Rich, I's a gonna call youse.

Phlush

Last edited by Plush; 4th December 2007 at 07:23 PM.. Reason: not enuf Phlush
Old 4th December 2007
  #34
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Coyoteous's Avatar
 

I'm wondering if maybe all the electronics are in the head/capsule, and if the "XLR module" is passive(?).
Old 4th December 2007
  #35
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Thanks for the response and clarification.

Anyone know how much the heads alone are going street price?

I was about to pull the trigger on a pair of Schoeps but may wait to hear these if the practical modular benefits and price are competitive with the Schoeps.

(I was going to start with MK21, though, so this is quite an apple->orange comparison.)
Old 4th December 2007
  #36
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Coyoteous's Avatar
 

- obviously I was writing when plush posted, but if the head is all of the mic except the connector translation, I'd think getting a head without an XLR module wouldn't save much... Full Compass has the mics and pairs listed with prices.
Old 4th December 2007
  #37
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I can't remember where I saw the prices, but the heads I saw listed for only a couple hundred dollars less than the full mic. The body was relatively inexpensive, $300 or so. (Don't hold me to those numbers, I couldn't find them again).

Basically what it looked like is that it was worth it to purchase entire microphones rather than parts. To be able to split them in half is great for the accessories that allow positioning of just a capsules (active cables, tubes, etc...).

--Ben
Old 5th December 2007
  #38
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Remoteness's Avatar
Yep, I hit that one right on the head!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
Rich, I assume when he used the word "desiccate" he meant they were dry sounding.
I'm sure Plush will chime in on this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
...I meant to describe a dry sound when I used the word "dessicated."...
Old 5th December 2007
  #39
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Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyoteous View Post
- obviously I was writing when plush posted, but if the head is all of the mic except the connector translation, I'd think getting a head without an XLR module wouldn't save much... Full Compass has the mics and pairs listed with prices.
It's about a two hundred dollar difference.
If anyone's interested I have a lead on these mics.
PM me if you're interested.
Old 9th December 2007
  #40
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aegert's Avatar
 

Hello

As a side note .. I love the telarc recordings as well ,,, Thank you so Much...

I was looking to use the cardioid 8040 mic for recording live rock shows in an X/Y config from the audience...

The dynamics coming out of the PA and off the stage are by no means up to 60kHz LOL

I have used kms184's, DPA4021's and Scheops mk4 w/cmc6's today as the opportunity suits and the rooms change... Any Ideas on the tonal differences for this application in contrast to the orchestral. Marketing data says that their off axis rejection of room noise is very good. Less responsive highs would be problematic.... Not looking for a boost up top but am looking for transparency, accuracy, fast response and definition..

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance..

From the data sheet it stands to reason the bass would be more pronounced.. here is a scan from the datasheet


A
Old 20th December 2007
  #41
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Got my 8040's today... Can't wait to try them (if I can't use them for my gig tonight, I'll use them on Wednesday for a session it looks like I'll be doing). These things are absolutely microscopic. Never seen a full size SD cardiod mic this small before. Hope it sounds as good as it looks.

--Ben
Old 20th December 2007
  #42
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Remoteness's Avatar
Awesome news.

We look forward to hearing what you have to say about those 8040s!
Old 20th December 2007
  #43
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Will probably be able to post an A-B sound sample of my session next week (assuming it happens- it is just an audition tape for a young pianist). Any requests as to what to compare it to?

I have MKH40's here, Schoeps MK4 and MK5, KM140's, etc... Thinking that an A-B against the MKH40 will probably be the closest comparison that would yield the most information. Then again, the Schoeps CMC6MK4 is a pretty known mic that would highlight the Sennheiser vs. Schoeps sounds...

First issue with them will be a good shockmount... I was going to use my Shure A53 donuts, but these mics are too small for them. I'd like to avoid the $80 Sennheiser mount if at all possible...

--Ben
Old 21st December 2007
  #44
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Omicron_9's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
Awesome news.

We look forward to hearing what you have to say about those 8040s!

+1!
Old 21st December 2007
  #45
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Got one on my gig tonight. (I'm recording a children's choir)... So far, my first impressions

Definitely a Sennheiser. No doubt about that. There is a bit of a peak on the top end- not quite as smooth as a Schoeps or a MKH40, but that isn't entirely a bad thing. Seems the top end extension is better than the MKH40.

I'm using it for a vocal soloist and when it wasn't being used, it sat by the piano so I could hear it there as well... Had that rich mid-range that Sennheiser's exhibit, but as I said, the top end isn't quite as smooth. (perhaps it is the young child's voice as well...) Also sounds like it would be a touch more transient than the MKH40.

Right now, I'm going off of memory so take these comments with a grain of salt. Next week, I'll put them on a piano and do some more controlled tests.

--Ben
Old 21st December 2007
  #46
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Well the first show has come and gone and I can't wait to use these mics in a more controlled set of circumstances. I used them as vocal solo mics for this choir concert and outside of the little twerps standing too close to the mic, it sounded awesome as a vocal mic.

Definitely a keeper mic if for nothing other than this- the vocals had a present, warm sound with clarity and air on the top end, but not the etched bright "presence" sound that so many mics exhibit. Going to be a "go to" for vocals here. Also, gonna have to get a set of extension stands for them so I can keep the profile low.

Sigh... Just more ways to spend money...


--Ben
Old 21st December 2007
  #47
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videoteque's Avatar
Quote:
Just more ways to spend money...
Gearslutz is not the place to keep your money in the bank!!!!!
Old 28th December 2007
  #48
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So I used them yesterday on a solo piano recording... ORTF is usually far from my preferred method of recording a classical piano, but in this case because I wanted to test mics and the recording wasn't a critical one, I broke my SOP.

So, I compared ORTF-ish arrays of Schoeps CMC6MK4, MKH40 and MKH8040 microphones. As you can see in the pictures, the stereo bar I used has space for 7 mics. I paired each so that the angle, and spacing was the same.

Obviously this isn't a perfect comparison as each mic isn't in eactly the same position, but it should be close enough to give the idea of what each pair sounds like.

The room was a very large new rehearsal room/future recording studio at a local school. The piano was an older Fazioli Concert Grand piano. The room was a bit dead and the piano a bit bright. I used Grace 801 preamps for all the mics and the gain should be close, but I'm not making claims that they are exact. Mytek converters were used recording into Pro Tools. No extra processing was done other than to interleave the stereo files and generate MP3s that I could post here...

It was very interesting to hear all 3 pairs right next to each other. In short, my feelings were that you could make a case for each and make a case against each. I also wouldn't use any of them for a serious classical piano recording (because I like A-B pairs of omnis), but they are all great mics in their own way...

Just another reason why you gotta have a large rig... heh

Sound files in the next post...

--Ben
Attached Thumbnails
New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics-mics-small001.jpg   New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics-mics-small002.jpg   New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics-mics-small003.jpg  
Old 28th December 2007
  #49
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Finally- the muzyk... Thoughts everybody?

--Ben
Attached Files

MKH8040.mp3 (5.17 MB, 2250 views)

MKH40.mp3 (5.17 MB, 2533 views)

MK4.mp3 (5.17 MB, 2521 views)

Old 28th December 2007
  #50
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hughesmr's Avatar
The MK4 sample isn't there ....
Old 28th December 2007
  #51
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Check your connection- I just downloaded it off of Gearslutz and it is definitely there...

I've been having pretty big problems with the board as it relates to MP3 files. It took 4 or 5 tries to get the files up.

--Ben
Old 28th December 2007
  #52
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aegert's Avatar
 

Ben
Thank you so much for the samples...

A
Old 28th December 2007
  #53
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mljung's Avatar
...I say thanks as well. First impression in this particular, room, spacing etc.:
I preferred MKH-40. They had the best 'inner clarity'! - for my ears at my system.

It would be very interesting to hear an A-B omni [8020] on the piano set against the usual suspects DPA, Schoeps [and MKH-20] and maybe an unusual one [like avantone ck-1 or oktava mk-012] as a joker..!


¤M¤
Old 28th December 2007
  #54
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dynamo's Avatar
 

Thank you Ben. On my first and fast listening with headphones I'm not crazy at the sound of the 8040's on this...they miss the "body" and have a little "plastic" in the tone. Hard to describe a sound....the Schoeps and the MKH 40's seem more relaxed/smooth/classy sounding and give a fuller tone. As a matter of fact I think I've heard better Fazioli than this one...Thanks again for posting these samples.
Old 28th December 2007
  #55
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Plush's Avatar
Thank you, Ben for posting these and for your comparison efforts.

I find the 8040 to exhibit some characterictics I've noticed with the MKH 800's and the new MKH 8020 omni mics. When these are positioned at the same place as the Schoeps, the Sennheisers sound as if they are closer to the source. They have more reach than the Schoeps.

I prefer a softer and more rounded pick-up, so in this instance I liked the Schoeps.

I have done some mindblowingly lyrical piano recordings with the new MKH 8020 omnis.
It took me longer to place the new mics than is usual in trying to judge an acoustic.

Fazioli sounds bright in these clips. (typical for this maker)
Old 28th December 2007
  #56
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matucha's Avatar
nice playing!

at first I had really hard time to recognize the differences, and had just a feeling that it goes like this shoeps>mkh40>mkh8040 fuller>lighter>lighter. I wouldn't prefer 8040, but I'd have no problem using them if it was the only thing I owned ;-). Schoeps are very nice as usual. MKH40 sounds brighter a bit - and I always thought sennheiser is the most "bland" out of schoeps-dpa-sennheiser triumvirat.

what irritated me a bit during the listening was some kind of mechanical noise (pedal?), whooosh... whoosshh... whooshhh...

One last thing... why is it, there is so little use of old sennheiser mkh mics? In contrast to neumann KM184 vs KM84, MKH40 seems to win a big time over old MKH405/406 etc... in popularity.
Old 28th December 2007
  #57
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Yes, the piano has certainly seen better days- there were pedal noise issues and it was rather bright. When it was new, it ws a pretty stunning instrument, but since then it has seen use for probably 10 hours a day for about 8 or 9 years. Even the best instruments can't stand up to that kind of abuse...

My impressions were as follows- the Schoeps in some ways sounded decidedly thin in comparison to the Sennheisers. The 40's had a better top end than then 8040, but the 8040 has a much better mid range (especially low mid where the 40 can be especially murky sounding). When messing around with the clips, a touch of EQ at about 8-10 KHz adding a couple dB made up for the top end issues that the other two mics don't exhibit. They also appear to have a bit better transient response than the MKH40.

The other thing to remember is all three sets of mics were in the same place. That means that there is going to be a compromise in positioning as no two mics will sound best in the same spot. What Plush mentioned about the MKH800 is absolutely true and it seems to have a corolary with these mics... They reach much further than similar mics. When I've used the MKH80's that the facility where I did this recording owns, the positioning is way different than any other mic out there. I've used them numerous times on this particular instrument (although in a different room) and positioning ends up being very different than what I did here.

I think they are all great mics that have (or will have in the case of the new 8040's) their uses. I'm not sure I'd use the new Sennheisers as mains for an orchestra, but I definitely will use them for concertos for strings, vocalists, etc... I'll also eventually get the active tubes for them so I can use them in other situations...

I'm also kinda wanting to get a set of the omnis.... sigh...

--Ben
Old 1st January 2008
  #58
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For me the sennheisers are the winners. Better overall than the schoeps, more full, better midrange and better top. I really liked the 8040, actually planning to purchase some. Thank you for the clips.
Tamas Dragon
Old 1st January 2008
  #59
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamasdragon View Post
For me the sennheisers are the winners. Better overall than the schoeps, more full, better midrange and better top. I really liked the 8040, actually planning to purchase some. Thank you for the clips.
Tamas Dragon
You probably noticed that the 8040 clip is higher in volume than the rest ... so for a true comparison, the volume levels should be adjusted ...
Old 1st January 2008
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
You probably noticed that the 8040 clip is higher in volume than the rest ... so for a true comparison, the volume levels should be adjusted ...
And for the most useful comparison, you should probably have each microphone in the position that they sound the best. After all, that's where you'd put them if you were using them alone... Also, as even as the preamp's sound it (it is by far the most even throughout all gain positions), the output levels of these mics were hugely different. I set them so that the peak levels were quite close, but the very nature of the way they work will result in differing RMS levels. This meant, however, that there was probably about a 10 dB (perhaps more) difference in gain between pairs on the pres.

This is the reason why I never do comparisons- their very nature is flawed. I think there was enough of a comparison, though, to tell me exactly what I needed to know... The levels differences (which really aren't very big), don't get in the way of the perceived tonal and transient response differences IMO.

Never claimed that it was a perfect comparison (actually I said quite the opposite), but it does have a certain amount of useful information.

FWIW, I ended up giving the client the recording made with the 8040s with a touch of EQ and a bit of reverb...

--Ben
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